Hi there just after some advice for a new driver
He has been giving a load of infringements from work for things like not taking full 45 minutes break or leaving card in by mistake overnight on work he drives vans aswell as trucks so think he is putting manual entry in wrong company have said he could get £6000 fine for this but not offered any training or anything
I have said he should do a cpc course on drivers hours again and make sure that he does it correctly in future at least then he is showing that he is trying to do things right he is possibly looking at giving up hgv because of this
Rather than doing a hours cpc course.
I’d suggest your friend would be better watching YouTube videos that actually show them using a tacho explaing it as they go.
And reading up on drivers hours…he will learn more than doing a CPC course I reckon
If he wants to give up driving because he can’t be bothered to get his head around the basics of driver responsibilities, it would be a strange TM who would try to stop him, I certainly wouldn’t try to talk him out of it; but if he’s asking for help to understand it, that help should definitely be given, but asking for assistance is his call.
If he isn’t getting his DH responsibilities right, I bet he isn’t doing proper walkaround checks either. Both of these make him a liability to his employer (I’m guessing that’s not you), and indirectly to his fellow drivers (by attracting unwanted attention of DVSA to the company).
Someone should send him on a good course where they know he’ll get the essentials drilled into him, and be assessed on his understanding, and be well drilled in the potential penalties - DVSA can arrange worse things than just a fine. This someone should preferably know the course from their own experience.
Telling him to watch some Youtube videos won’t do anything, chances are he isn’t going to bother himself to do it and won’t care if he still doesn’t understand what is required. Plus it wouldn’t satisfy DVSA that the operator had done enough to stop masses of infringements occurring
Anyone can make the odd mistake, but racking up a potential £6k of fines takes a concerted effort.
Zac_A:
If he wants to give up driving because he can’t be bothered to get his head around the basics of driver responsibilities, it would be a strange TM who would try to stop him, I certainly wouldn’t try to talk him out of it; but if he’s asking for help to understand it, that help should definitely be given, but asking for assistance is his call.
If he isn’t getting his DH responsibilities right, I bet he isn’t doing proper walkaround checks either. Both of these make him a liability to his employer (I’m guessing that’s not you), and indirectly to his fellow drivers (by attracting unwanted attention of DVSA to the company).
Someone should send him on a good course where they know he’ll get the essentials drilled into him, and be assessed on his understanding, and be well drilled in the potential penalties - DVSA can arrange worse things than just a fine. This someone should preferably know the course from their own experience.
Telling him to watch some Youtube videos won’t do anything, chances are he isn’t going to bother himself to do it and won’t care if he still doesn’t understand what is required. Plus it wouldn’t satisfy DVSA that the operator had done enough to stop masses of infringements occurring
Anyone can make the odd mistake, but racking up a potential £6k of fines takes a concerted effort.
I’ve had drivers say to me that they didn’t do manual entries for years and when they had to, they did take a while to get their heads around it. These are good honest men and good drivers. You have to remember that some drivers may have some mild forms of learning disability, such as dyslexia. To be an inclusive profession, we shouldn’t assume that because someone can’t do something that they can’t be bothered. These are the mistakes made in teaching that affected many before we better understood learning disabilities.
The driver in this case seems to have displayed some initiative in discussing the matter and asking for training.
Noremac:
I’ve had drivers say to me that they didn’t do manual entries for years and when they had to, they did take a while to get their heads around it. These are good honest men and good drivers.
But they’re not though are they? How can you be a good driver if you don’t know how to use a tachograph properly and don’t record legally required information? They had to do manual entries ever since tachographs came out, even in the days of paper tachos and they weren’t doing. A manual entry is a fundamental basic and for the majority of drivers it’ll just be adding a few minutes other work after they ejected the card plus rest until they started work and then other work to cover until they put the card in.
They’ve not been driving legally for years, making false records on their tachographs by not recording work they did before getting into and after getting out of the lorry. They’ve been running bent the entire time they’ve not made manual entries other than when they were nighting out if they took the card out.
If they were good drivers they’d have asked for help the in the beginning when they were first using digicards. They most likely didn’t because they didn’t bother doing legally required manual entries on paper cards so just carried on falsifying records the way they had done since starting driving.
They weren’t good drivers, they were just drivers lucky enough up to that point to work for companies that didn’t care.
To be an inclusive profession, we shouldn’t assume that because someone can’t do something that they can’t be bothered.
If you’ve been doing the job for years and you’re still not doing something you know you’re legally required to do it most definitely is because you can’t be bothered. Sod all to do with dyslexia…I used to work for an owner driver who was dyslexic to the point he never finished school, he did manual entries.
raymond888uk:
Hi there just after some advice for a new driver
He has been giving a load of infringements from work for things like not taking full 45 minutes break or leaving card in by mistake overnight on work he drives vans aswell as trucks so think he is putting manual entry in wrong company have said he could get £6000 fine for this but not offered any training or anything
I have said he should do a cpc course on drivers hours again and make sure that he does it correctly in future at least then he is showing that he is trying to do things right he is possibly looking at giving up hgv because of this
When you are taking a 45 minute break, make sure you take a 46 minute break instead, some tachos may not record the break accurately if you take exactly 45 minutes, alternatively take a 16 minute break followed by a 31 minute break later in the day.
Manual entries are a piece of cake, watch some videos as has been said, this is a good one, very easy to understand… youtube.com/watch?v=_VlkMO- … =Deady2012
I’ve always done manual entries, ever since the digital tachograph came in…
I was working for Royal Mail at the time and we did have alot of training, we even had a digital tachograph machine to practice on in the classroom.
It seems its a case of if the company can be bothered, or just rely on the driver working it out for themselves. Where I work now I know at least two drivers who don’t do manual entries, they’ve both been stopped by dvsa and they were told everything was ok!
has only been working 4 months does vans some days and truck the next think there has been confusion there recording what was done in van have told him about taking extra break time I always take minimum 2 minutes extra this is the first time his card has ever been checked as they got a new tm don’t think place has been run too well before I don’t work there so can’t be too sure manual entry is easy enough for someone who has done it before but can see how it could be difficult we have all got to start somewhere just looking for the future for him as don’t think he is staying there
Noremac:
The driver in this case seems to have displayed some initiative in discussing the matter and asking for training.
Has he? It looked to me like OP was someone else, who was asking what their work mate could do to help themself?
As I said earlier, training should definitely be provided, but it needs to be delivered by someone who knows how to get it across and most importantly, the driver needs to be onboard with having it explained to them: Talking about throwing the towel in does not sound like someone who wants to be helped, it sounds like CBA.
I had an ADR candidate recently who walked out during one of my practice tests designed to help him prepare for the exams; he complained “I CBA with this, it’s like being back at f’in school”. He’s due back for several resits sometime in the near future…
raymond888uk:
has only been working 4 months does vans some days and truck the next think there has been confusion there recording what was done in van have told him about taking extra break time I always take minimum 2 minutes extra this is the first time his card has ever been checked as they got a new tm don’t think place has been run too well before I don’t work there so can’t be too sure manual entry is easy enough for someone who has done it before but can see how it could be difficult we have all got to start somewhere just looking for the future for him as don’t think he is staying there
So he’s a new pass who learned only as much as was necessary to get through his Module 1a Theory Assessment, got a job at a place that wasn’t being properly ran, (might even have been running without a TM for a while) and has now had a shock because someone is onboard sorting stuff out properly.
Maybe you or someone else in your location could recommend a good, up to date, Drivers Hours DCPC, which should teach him all the other stuff he ought to know. Taking his lack of knowledge to another potential employer won’t help him at all.
if hes new starter unless he has friends or family that use tachos. how are you supposed to know where to start.
all well and good learning the rules 4.5 drive break 4.5 drive etc. thats easy.
in practice can be complicated. persoanlly the hgv lesson provider should show them . show them usuing an actually tacho how it works how to do a manual entry how to change modes etc
where i worked few years back small outfit they were always happy take on new passes and being senior driver was always having to show them how to use a tacho. spent 5 mins and they soon picked it up.
we all had to be shown learnt somehow.
woundlt ask office transport manager they probably dont have a clue anyway
The incentive to learn would be if the hours worked are taken off the tacho records - and it would be a disincentive to the company to teach him how to add 20-30 mins or whatever, per day!!
edd1974:
if hes new starter unless he has friends or family that use tachos. how are you supposed to know where to start.
I doubt he’s the only driver at the company so asking his workmates is an obvious starting point.
edd1974:
persoanlly the hgv lesson provider should show them . show them usuing an actually tacho how it works how to do a manual entry how to change modes etc
It’s not part of a regular driver training package, so why should they do that? The driving school where I deliver my ADR offers driving candidates a free DCPC after they’ve passed, recommending that they do drivers hours
edd1974:
where i worked few years back small outfit they were always happy take on new passes and being senior driver was always having to show them how to use a tacho. spent 5 mins and they soon picked it up.
we all had to be shown learnt somehow.
That’s down to the individual company to do that, most companies expect a qualified driver to know his stuff off his own bat, this is why most companies are only interested in employing experienced drivers. Around here we’re not short of choice for drivers and newbies need to put themselves out to know their stuff if they expect someone to take a punt on them.
edd1974:
woundlt ask office transport manager they probably dont have a clue anyway
Blanket statements like that aren’t really helpful at all: I’m a Transport Manager and I’ve yet to see any driver ask me a question I can’t answer. On the other hand I also train Transport Managers, and yes, there are some whose knowledge isn’t up to scratch. This is why drivers should be offered a good, detailed drivers hours DCPC at a place that has proven itself.
Good morning everyone. I have an unusual question. I had an accident 7 days ago. I turned over in the roundabout. The truck will be written off. I have a broken rib but I was very lucky. I am suspended right now and probably will loose my job.
I was driving under speed limit, took up 2 lanes(to make sure this wouldn’t happen), wasn’t on phone or anything like that.
My question would be the fallowing:
I left my tacho card in the lory and it stayed in other work. I have just recently got it back and obviously it has a big infringement due the accident (and me not able to put it on break) What should I do ? My boss sad “you don’t have to worry about it for a now”. But I just realised that if I go to a different workplace to work than my next employer will have to deal with it and I will have to explain the reason.
I haven’t sing anything about taking financial reliability for the truck or the load. Can I end up sued and forced to pay for the damage ?
To be clear this was a sealed container and all The paperwork said was “goods”. Therefore I don’t know if the load was secured properly or well distributed. It came from the docks. As I dome this roundabout 1000 times I still don’t understand how did my lorry turned over. But from the company point it’s just driver error and that’s it.
If anyone has any experience or helpful advice to give I would really appreciate it.
lv437:
Good morning everyone. I have an unusual question. I had an accident 7 days ago. I turned over in the roundabout. The truck will be written off. I have a broken rib but I was very lucky. I am suspended right now and probably will loose my job.
I was driving under speed limit, took up 2 lanes(to make sure this wouldn’t happen), wasn’t on phone or anything like that.
My question would be the fallowing:
I left my tacho card in the lory and it stayed in other work. I have just recently got it back and obviously it has a big infringement due the accident (and me not able to put it on break) What should I do ? My boss sad “you don’t have to worry about it for a now”. But I just realised that if I go to a different workplace to work than my next employer will have to deal with it and I will have to explain the reason.
I haven’t sing anything about taking financial reliability for the truck or the load. Can I end up sued and forced to pay for the damage ?
To be clear this was a sealed container and all The paperwork said was “goods”. Therefore I don’t know if the load was secured properly or well distributed. It came from the docks. As I dome this roundabout 1000 times I still don’t understand how did my lorry turned over. But from the company point it’s just driver error and that’s it.
If anyone has any experience or helpful advice to give I would really appreciate it.
Welcome to the forum.
Can’t you just explain the infringement was because you accidentally turned a lorry over, got taken to hospital and left your card in?
Or did you want some way of explaining the tacho infringement but without mentioning you put a lorry on its side?
lv437:
Good morning everyone. I have an unusual question. I had an accident 7 days ago. I turned over in the roundabout. The truck will be written off. I have a broken rib but I was very lucky. I am suspended right now and probably will loose my job.
I was driving under speed limit, took up 2 lanes(to make sure this wouldn’t happen), wasn’t on phone or anything like that.
My question would be the fallowing:
I left my tacho card in the lory and it stayed in other work. I have just recently got it back and obviously it has a big infringement due the accident (and me not able to put it on break) What should I do ? My boss sad “you don’t have to worry about it for a now”. But I just realised that if I go to a different workplace to work than my next employer will have to deal with it and I will have to explain the reason.
I appreciate optimism, but you do realise that any potential new employer may contact the old employer with question or two? I would not bank on being able to sweep this under the carpet, which is the impression your post conveys.
lv437:
I haven’t sing anything about taking financial reliability for the truck or the load. Can I end up sued and forced to pay for the damage ?
It’s likely civil court action will follow.
lv437:
To be clear this was a sealed container and all The paperwork said was “goods”. Therefore I don’t know if the load was secured properly or well distributed. It came from the docks. As I dome this roundabout 1000 times I still don’t understand how did my lorry turned over. But from the company point it’s just driver error and that’s it.
If anyone has any experience or helpful advice to give I would really appreciate it.
Seek proper legal advice asap would be my advice, learn what to say and what not to say: Saying “As I dome this roundabout 1000 times…” [sic] would naturally lead to acccusations of complacency based on over familiarity.
raymond888uk:
Hi there just after some advice for a new driver
He has been giving a load of infringements from work for things like not taking full 45 minutes break or leaving card in by mistake overnight on work he drives vans aswell as trucks so think he is putting manual entry in wrong company have said he could get £6000 fine for this but not offered any training or anything
I have said he should do a cpc course on drivers hours again and make sure that he does it correctly in future at least then he is showing that he is trying to do things right he is possibly looking at giving up hgv because of this
When you are taking a 45 minute break, make sure you take a 46 minute break instead, some tachos may not record the break accurately if you take exactly 45 minutes, alternatively take a 16 minute break followed by a 31 minute break later in the day.
Manual entries are a piece of cake, watch some videos as has been said, this is a good one, very easy to understand… youtube.com/watch?v=_VlkMO- … =Deady2012
Complete and utter ■■■■■■■■ as usual, driver RDC ■■■■■■■■.
A tacho is a clock, once it clocks up to 15 or 45 mins then driving time is reset, there is absolutely no need to make sure it goes over by 1 minute.
I regularly have exactly 15 or 45 minutes and never ever once had a break that didn’t register as it as a full amount of 15 or 45 minutes break.
Same as the old press break before ejecting you’re card, a waste of time and utter ■■■■■■■■.