Stobarts new volvos gas power

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
101

Carryfast:
If youre right then then just try running a diesel/compression ignition engine on petrol and see how far it gets :unamused: :laughing:

Hi Carryfast,

You’ve (unskillfully) avoided the central issue, which you’ve got very very wrong, and you’ve slid in yet more completely irrelevant stuff again.

You didn’t address the polite question I raised, which was: Have you confused ‘flashpoint temperature’ with ‘auto-ignition’ temperature?
If you truly understand those two concepts, you’ll have no difficulty answering my question.
BTW, I am right, and I do agree that under normal circumstances, you couldn’t run a diesel engine on petrol. (We seem to agree on that.)
What you wrote, STILL doesn’t address the simple question I asked you, and your attempt to deflect didn’t work. I reckon you’re busted!!

Here’s a little test that you can carry out for yourself:
(You probably won’t believe me if I give you the figures, hence my invite for you to find them yourself.)
Look-up the flashpoint temperature and the auto-ignition temperature for petrol, then do the same for diesel.

You’ll notice that petrol has a relatively low flashpoint temperature, and a relatively high auto-ignition temperature, whilst the reverse is true for diesel.
You can look those figures up on any chemical database of your choosing, then please post them on here for us to discuss.
Can’t say fairer than that eh?
:bulb: Then we’ll see what’s what with the rest of what you’ve written above.

Carryfast:
.But you’ve said yourself oxygen is an oxidiser it is’nt flammable in it’s own right and as any decent bomb maker knows an oxidiser won’t burn by itself without fuel.

It’s a good job I don’t change my tune, because I’m still saying the same thing.
What you’ve put is essentially the same, so it seems we agree on that point.
The bit you seem to have missed is when I wrote: “as presented for carriage” and “under certain conditions of use…” The important thing here is that those are two completely different situations. Then I made it pretty obvious that I didn’t know much more about that particular subject area. Me not being a chemist etc…

Carryfast:
But if I read it right he did mention magnesium which sounds like a good source of fuel if it’s in contact with oxygen considering the way that thermic lance will burn with just ordinary steel. :open_mouth:

There’s no question that magnesium is a fuel source, because it’s classified by the UN (and ADR) as a flammable solid of UN class 4.1 .

I’ll stop right there, because it does well for a person to know their limitations. :wink:

102

dieseldave:
I’ll stop right there, because it does well for a person to know their limitations. :wink:

Where’s the fun it than, eh?

103

I’m no Einstein

Ummm thanks for stating the obvious.

but I thought the shaped charge was needed to push the nuclear fuel together fast enough for the nuclear reaction to take place fast enough to make an explosion not a power station

The physics of power generation at an atomic power plant are competely different you are lowering fuel rods into a bank of carbon, thus producing heat which increases the temperature of the cooling water to a point where steam is produced which is then run through the steam turbines to turn a generation which produces DC current which is then transformed into AC current and stepped up to provide the power required. The cooled water is then returned to the tank and the process continues. The amount of rod lowered into the block increased or decreased the temperature of reaction.

104

Big Jon’s dad:

Carryfast:

Brentanna:

Not until someone from the oil companies comes on here and explains how a fuel with around 105 octane rating can have a higher temperature detonation point than diesel with 50 Cetane in which case we’ve been running petrol engines with far less compression than they could have been run at.

And that is why you will forever remain a mental midget.

But clever enough to know that a diesel engine won’t run on Petrol.

Would that be because there isn’t enough compression in a diesel engine to raise the temperature to the point the petrol autoignites?

:unamused: :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: I rest my case.Just compare the compression pressures in a petrol engine compared to those of a diesel.

105

Would that be because there isn’t enough compression in a diesel engine to raise the temperature to the point the petrol autoignites?

ummm would that not be why you use diesel as an ignition source. :bulb: :bulb: Carryfast you just did it again proved your own arguement is wrong wish to keep going and prove that you have no clue beyond a shadow of a doubt.

106

dieseldave:

Carryfast:
If youre right then then just try running a diesel/compression ignition engine on petrol and see how far it gets :unamused: :laughing:

Hi Carryfast,

You’ve (unskillfully) avoided the central issue, which you’ve got very very wrong, and you’ve slid in yet more completely irrelevant stuff again.

You didn’t address the polite question I raised, which was: Have you confused ‘flashpoint temperature’ with ‘auto-ignition’ temperature?
If you truly understand those two concepts, you’ll have no difficulty answering my question.
BTW, I am right, and I do agree that under normal circumstances, you couldn’t run a diesel engine on petrol. (We seem to agree on that.)
What you wrote, STILL doesn’t address the simple question I asked you, and your attempt to deflect didn’t work. I reckon you’re busted!!

Here’s a little test that you can carry out for yourself:
(You probably won’t believe me if I give you the figures, hence my invite for you to find them yourself.)
Look-up the flashpoint temperature and the auto-ignition temperature for petrol, then do the same for diesel.

You’ll notice that petrol has a relatively low flashpoint temperature, and a relatively high auto-ignition temperature, whilst the reverse is true for diesel.

I’ve not confused anything in a comparison between the detonation resistance of diesel fuel versus petrol.There’s no way that petrol can withstand the cylinder pressures and temperatures generated in a diesel engine without detonating unlike diesel fuel.Simples.

107

Carryfast do some research think about it this evening. Reread everything that has been said without inferring anything. Come back tomorrow and we will all accept your apology.

108

Brentanna:

Would that be because there isn’t enough compression in a diesel engine to raise the temperature to the point the petrol autoignites?

ummm would that not be why you use diesel as an ignition source. :bulb: :bulb: Carryfast you just did it again proved your own arguement is wrong wish to keep going and prove that you have no clue beyond a shadow of a doubt.

It’s you that said use diesel to ignite LPG.It’s me that said that LPG will detonate under compression before the diesel will.How does my reply to BJD prove my argument is wrong.I’ll say it again for your benefit.

Diesel engines generate compression pressures and temperatures which petrol can’t withstand without detonating prematurely,unlike diesel fuel.

109

Carryfast:

dieseldave:

Carryfast:
If youre right then then just try running a diesel/compression ignition engine on petrol and see how far it gets :unamused: :laughing:

Hi Carryfast,

You’ve (unskillfully) avoided the central issue, which you’ve got very very wrong, and you’ve slid in yet more completely irrelevant stuff again.

You didn’t address the polite question I raised, which was: Have you confused ‘flashpoint temperature’ with ‘auto-ignition’ temperature?
If you truly understand those two concepts, you’ll have no difficulty answering my question.
BTW, I am right, and I do agree that under normal circumstances, you couldn’t run a diesel engine on petrol. (We seem to agree on that.)
What you wrote, STILL doesn’t address the simple question I asked you, and your attempt to deflect didn’t work. I reckon you’re busted!!

Here’s a little test that you can carry out for yourself:
(You probably won’t believe me if I give you the figures, hence my invite for you to find them yourself.)
Look-up the flashpoint temperature and the auto-ignition temperature for petrol, then do the same for diesel.

You’ll notice that petrol has a relatively low flashpoint temperature, and a relatively high auto-ignition temperature, whilst the reverse is true for diesel.

I’ve not confused anything in a comparison between the detonation resistance of diesel fuel versus petrol.There’s no way that petrol can withstand the cylinder pressures and temperatures generated in a diesel engine without detonating unlike diesel fuel.Simples.

FFS:
Source, the link I posted earlier.

Autoingnition Temperatures.
Diesel or Jet A-1: 210 °C (410 °F)
Gasoline (Petrol): 246—280 °C (475—536 °F)

Did you read any of what DD wrte?

110

Carryfast:
Diesel engines generate compression pressures and temperatures which petrol can’t withstand without detonating prematurely,unlike diesel fuel.

Wrong, see flashpoint versus autoignition, AGAIN!!!

111

dieseldave:
You’ve (unskillfully) avoided the central issue, which you’ve got very very wrong, and you’ve slid in yet more completely irrelevant stuff again.

Last member that kept doing that got put on pre-mod!

However, I think CF does know a thing or 2, just his way of understanding it & explaining it seems to differ. (not saying he’s never wrong though).

I know they do mix diesel & gas in diesel engines & it makes for smooth quiet running. Not sure if its LPG used or, I thought more likely, CNG.

What type of engine is in fork lift trucks that run on 100% gas? (propane?) Don’t think they have spark ignition do they?

112

Brentanna:

I’m no Einstein

Ummm thanks for stating the obvious.

but I thought the shaped charge was needed to push the nuclear fuel together fast enough for the nuclear reaction to take place fast enough to make an explosion not a power station

The physics of power generation at an atomic power plant are competely different you are lowering fuel rods into a bank of carbon, thus producing heat which increases the temperature of the cooling water to a point where steam is produced which is then run through the steam turbines to turn a generation which produces DC current which is then transformed into AC current and stepped up to provide the power required. The cooled water is then returned to the tank and the process continues. The amount of rod lowered into the block increased or decreased the temperature of reaction.

You actually ‘lower’ the boron rods into the reactor to control the reactor which already has a critical mass of nuclear fuel.The comparison with pushing the nuclear fuel in a bomb together with explosives with a power station would be like firing all of those control rods out instantaneously with an explosive charge. :open_mouth:

113

Driveroneuk:
I thought more likely, CNG.

i’m glad some one else mentioned that because i’m pretty sure at least some of the warburton ones are c.n.g …

114

Big Jon’s dad:

Carryfast:
Diesel engines generate compression pressures and temperatures which petrol can’t withstand without detonating prematurely,unlike diesel fuel.

Wrong, see flashpoint versus autoignition, AGAIN!!!

Suggest you check out the compression pressures/temperatures generated in a diesel engine,at the point of compression ignition,versus those of a petrol engine at both point of ignition and/or detonation.

115

Carryfast:

Big Jon’s dad:

Carryfast:
Diesel engines generate compression pressures and temperatures which petrol can’t withstand without detonating prematurely,unlike diesel fuel.

Wrong, see flashpoint versus autoignition, AGAIN!!!

Suggest you check out the compression pressures/temperatures generated in a diesel engine,at the point of compression ignition,versus those of a petrol engine at both point of ignition and/or detonation.

Where would I find this information?

Can you remind me why we put spark plugs in petrol engines?

116

You actually ‘lower’ the boron rods into the reactor to control the reactor which already has a critical mass of nuclear fuel

Wrong research either Chernobyl or 3 mile island the cause of the explosion was the lowering of fuel rods into the tank causing massive amounts of steam to be created whereby blowing the top from the tank. Boron is used to neutralize the heavy water tanks, the water becomes highly contaminated over time heavy water is H30 get the picture.

117

Driveroneuk:

dieseldave:
You’ve (unskillfully) avoided the central issue, which you’ve got very very wrong, and you’ve slid in yet more completely irrelevant stuff again.

Last member that kept doing that got put on pre-mod!

However, I think CF does know a thing or 2, just his way of understanding it & explaining it seems to differ. (not saying he’s never wrong though).

Thanks for that.I don’t know why DD decided to make that comment but I thought that my comparisons were clear enough not to be branded as ‘avoidance’.But if I’m wrong then why are we using diesel fuel costing around twice the price when we could easily just be using LPG. :question: :question:

118

Some people drive cars that run on LPG (usually petrol engined) but I don’t fancy having a pressurised gas tank on board in the event of a collision. Diesel is much safer. Besides, if everyone switched to LPG, HMG would jack the duty up on LPG so the saving would be wiped out.

119

Well I wish he understood how this works because he is surely getting this wrong. As for the higher autoignition fuels anything higher than diesel will need diesel in a diesel engine to ignite the fuel whether it be natural gas, H2S, or butane. You could even use methane if you so desired. You are not using just LP you are using a mixed fuel LP and diesel. In a normal diesel engine it would not work as you need to time the injection of the fuels to coincide with lbs of compression and the temperature rise of the mixture. This has only come into being as a result of the advancements in computer controlled injection systems. Carryfast is trying to argue 1950 technology terms in a world that has gone into the next millennium.

120

Big Jon’s dad:

Carryfast:

Big Jon’s dad:

Carryfast:
Diesel engines generate compression pressures and temperatures which petrol can’t withstand without detonating prematurely,unlike diesel fuel.

Wrong, see flashpoint versus autoignition, AGAIN!!!

Suggest you check out the compression pressures/temperatures generated in a diesel engine,at the point of compression ignition,versus those of a petrol engine at both point of ignition and/or detonation.

Where would I find this information?

Can you remind me why we put spark plugs in petrol engines?

We use spark plugs in petrol engines because they’re not diesel engines :wink: .But for the purposes of this argument it’s all to do with the difference between premature detonation and ignition and one of the reasons for using the spark is to ignite the mixture before a lot less compression than a diesel engine generates detonates it instead.