[quote=“Brentanna” Another tidbit for you check out the history of the 1975-1985 General Motors 305 cu in motor same engine, same block same heads some gas others diesel one had glow plugs the other spark plugs. 
maybe you should talk to some engine manufacturers 
[/quote]
Same pistons 
.
Same compression ratios .
Carryfast:
Brentanna:
LPG needs to be compressed to over 600lbs to auto ignite where have you ever seen a diesel engine with that kind of compression ? I gave you that information about 3 pages ago. Therefore you theory fails that test. What is the maximum compression you have seen on a diesel engine ? If I have to I will do each of the fuels that can be used separately and prove you wrong on each one. I will even do Xylene which can be used as a fuel. Like really you have links to the pages where the manufacturers give some information I have given you a link to a petrol engineers literature on the topic of diesel/ gas. You are just too thick headed to drop your failed reasoning, and admit you were WRONG.The relevant bit is what’s the Cetane rating of LPG versus diesel fuel.
Crikey Mate, you’d better get on to these guys and tell them they haven’t got a clue. 
cleanairpower.com/duel-technology.php
The relevant bit is what’s the Cetane rating of LPG versus diesel fuel
■■■■■■■■ the important aspect if the autoignition temp brought about by compression. I have already shown you that and provided data from a petrol engineer in that regard. As well as the data for LPG. If you have some actual data from an knowlegeable source that proves otherwise post it or shut up.
Big Jon’s dad:
Let’s try again.Why won’t a diesel engine run on petrol?
the diesel engine doesn’t compress the petrol/air mix enough to reach the autoignition temperature of the petrol/air mix.
If you believe that then disconnect the ignition on a petrol engine with direct injection like a new 5 Litre V8 Jag and run it at the same compression ratio as a diesel and see what happens. The word is ‘detonation’ not ‘auto ignition’ in this context.
Report this postReply with quoteRe: stobarts new volvos gas power
by Driveroneuk » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:19 pm
You don’t/won’t win an arguement by SHOUTING.
What engines do gas fork lift trucks have? (for the 3rd time)
If diesel is heavy oil, what is that thick black sludge like substance called that some ships & commercial heating boilers run on?
In the 60’s - 70’s Land Rover used the same block for diesel & petrol engines. The petrol was over engineered, but the idea was a smaller parts inventory.
I am assembling a reply with links for you it will take a little while. Be patient please.
Carryfast:
Big Jon’s dad:
Let’s try again.Why won’t a diesel engine run on petrol?
the diesel engine doesn’t compress the petrol/air mix enough to reach the autoignition temperature of the petrol/air mix.If you believe that then disconnect the ignition on a petrol engine with direct injection like a new 5 Litre V8 Jag and run it at the same compression ratio as a diesel and see what happens.
Yeah great idea, I’ll just nip out and buy a new Jag so I can prove you are talking out of your rear end again.
Is this your new tactic? You know you are wrong but rather than admit your mistake, you are going to keep going until we get tired and leave you to it. I suppose then you will claim you were right all along. Care to explain how what these guys are doing works, then Mr Expert? cleanairpower.com/duel-technology.php
Big Jon’s dad:
Carryfast:
Brentanna:
LPG needs to be compressed to over 600lbs to auto ignite where have you ever seen a diesel engine with that kind of compression ? I gave you that information about 3 pages ago. Therefore you theory fails that test. What is the maximum compression you have seen on a diesel engine ? If I have to I will do each of the fuels that can be used separately and prove you wrong on each one. I will even do Xylene which can be used as a fuel. Like really you have links to the pages where the manufacturers give some information I have given you a link to a petrol engineers literature on the topic of diesel/ gas. You are just too thick headed to drop your failed reasoning, and admit you were WRONG.The relevant bit is what’s the Cetane rating of LPG versus diesel fuel.
Crikey Mate, you’d better get on to these guys and tell them they haven’t got a clue.
cleanairpower.com/duel-technology.php
Natural gas not LPG .You can’t fill up at many service stations with Natural Gas unlike you can with LPG.
Would that idea match a supercharged spark ignition LPG motor for specific power outputs.
Big Jon’s dad:
Carryfast:
Big Jon’s dad:
Let’s try again.Why won’t a diesel engine run on petrol?
the diesel engine doesn’t compress the petrol/air mix enough to reach the autoignition temperature of the petrol/air mix.If you believe that then disconnect the ignition on a petrol engine with direct injection like a new 5 Litre V8 Jag and run it at the same compression ratio as a diesel and see what happens.
Yeah great idea, I’ll just nip out and buy a new Jag so I can prove you are talking out of your rear end again.
No just ask you’re local Jag dealer why is it that they can’t run the supercharged 5 Litre V8 petrol models with the same compression ratios as they use on the diesel ones .Simples.
Hi Carryfast,
My question is still the same, and this is your third opportunity to un-confuse me please.
Below are two unequivocal statements from your good self.
Carryfast:
We don’t put spark plugs in diesel engines because they detonate diesel fuel using compression ignition under massive cylinder pressures and temperatures which would ignite petrol long before the spark does on a petrol engine.
And…
Carryfast:
I have’nt confused flash points with auto ignition temperatures
I’m saying that your two statements contradict each other, but I’m asking you to explain to me exactly what I’m missing if both statements are correct please. That’s a nice ‘open’ question, which awaits your pleasure. 
Carryfast:
Big Jon’s dad:
Carryfast:
Brentanna:
LPG needs to be compressed to over 600lbs to auto ignite where have you ever seen a diesel engine with that kind of compression ? I gave you that information about 3 pages ago. Therefore you theory fails that test. What is the maximum compression you have seen on a diesel engine ? If I have to I will do each of the fuels that can be used separately and prove you wrong on each one. I will even do Xylene which can be used as a fuel. Like really you have links to the pages where the manufacturers give some information I have given you a link to a petrol engineers literature on the topic of diesel/ gas. You are just too thick headed to drop your failed reasoning, and admit you were WRONG.The relevant bit is what’s the Cetane rating of LPG versus diesel fuel.
Crikey Mate, you’d better get on to these guys and tell them they haven’t got a clue.
cleanairpower.com/duel-technology.phpNatural gas not LPG
Would that idea match a supercharged spark ignition LPG motor for specific power outputs.
I guess you haven’t been following the links you were given previously. If you follow them you might learn something, like I have.
I’m no expert but I can read stuff and take it in.
Yes CNG (methane) not LPG
I have no idea how it compares to a supercharged LPG spark ignition engine. The whole point of this dual fuel idea is to use the basic diesel engine we already use because that is more efficient than a spark ignition engine. If you read the links it tell you all that. Go away, spend an hour reading up on the dual fuel technology and then come back and apologise. I won’t hold my breath.
Natural gas not LPG .
Would that idea match a supercharged spark ignition LPG motor for specific power outputs
ummmmm carryfast it doesnt matter if you are using NLG or LPG, XYlele, methane gas. or any other form of conbustible gas the principle is the same you mental midget. Your arguement are based on limited knowlege and hearsay nothing more you have not shown anyone one shred of proof to your claims, not one link not one reliable source. As for power output that is why they are duel fuel engines when additional torque is needed the engines computer will adjust the fuel to the injectors. Your arguements are baseless and you have no way to prove your points as they are baseless assumptions on your part not based in physical or scientific fact. You continue to agrue the same points that were proven false pages ago. What you are doing is trolling nothing more. Your posts have no relevance to those who are truly intersted in this technology. You are years behind in your thoughts and not even willing to learn anything new. Why dont you do everyone a favor just shut up and let people who really are willing to learn something do so.
dieseldave:
Hi Carryfast,You’ve got yourself thinking that it’s about detonation and/or ignition.
Again, that wasn’t what I asked.My question is still the same, and this is your third opportunity to un-confuse me please.
Below are two unequivocal statements from your good self.
Carryfast:
We don’t put spark plugs in diesel engines because they detonate diesel fuel using compression ignition under massive cylinder pressures and temperatures which would ignite petrol long before the spark does on a petrol engine.Carryfast:
I have’nt confused flash points with auto ignition temperaturesI’m saying that your two statements contradict each other, but I’m asking you to explain to me exactly what I’m missing if both statements are correct please. That’s a nice ‘open’ question, which awaits your pleasure.
I’ll try again then.For ‘detonate diesel fuel’ read ‘ignite diesel fuel under compression ignition’ sorry thought I explained the mistake.For ‘which would ignite petrol long before the spark does on a petrol engine’ read ‘which would ‘detonate’ petrol long before the spark ignites petrol,in a petrol engine,if you injected petrol into a diesel engine under diesel engine compression ratios at the same timing as you would with the diesel engine’.It’s my mistake in the way I was trying to explain the issue I’m getting at not anything wrong with the ideas themselves.
Brentanna:
Natural gas not LPG .
Would that idea match a supercharged spark ignition LPG motor for specific power outputs
ummmmm carryfast it doesnt matter if you are using NLG or LPG, XYlele, methane gas. or any other form of conbustible gas the principle is the same you mental midget. Your arguement are based on limited knowlege and hearsay nothing more you have not shown anyone one shred of proof to your claims, not one link not one reliable source. As for power output that is why they are duel fuel engines when additional torque is needed the engines computer will adjust the fuel to the injectors. Your arguements are baseless and you have no way to prove your points as they are baseless assumptions on your part not based in physical or scientific fact. You continue to agrue the same points that were proven false pages ago. What you are doing is trolling nothing more. Your posts have no relevance to those who are truly intersted in this technology. You are years behind in your thoughts and not even willing to learn anything new. Why dont you do everyone a favor just shut up and let people who really are willing to learn something do so.
Mental midget whatever blah blah.But why would they go to all the trouble of providing dual fuel technology using natural gas when they could be using LPG which is more widely available and around half the price of diesel ‘if’ the thing will run on any type of fuel that you want to throw in it .
Q. What is the difference between LNG and CNG
A. Natural gas can be supplied and contained on the vehicle in one of two states:
CNG
Compressed natural gas is usually gas with is taken from the national supply grid (at relatively low pressure) and compressed to 200 to 250 bar (200 to 250 times atmospheric pressure — 3000 to 3500 psi) by a gas compressor. The gas is still in a gaseous state, but held at these high pressures and contained in a strong, safe and certified pressure vessel; either a storage tank or an on-board fuel tank.
As the gas is compressed, it picks up oil and contaminants from the lubrication within the compressor. Therefore, this contamination must be reduced as, over time, it can deposit within the injection system, forming hard “lacquers” which affect the performance of the injectors, or lead to failure. Clean Air Power produces gas filters which remove most of this contaminant. It is recommended that filtration is used to protect and extend the life of the injection system. This is no different from the filtration requirements of diesel and gasoline in traditional applications.
LNG
The most efficient way to transport gas over distances exceeding approximately 3000km is by ship in a liquefied state. Hence, a significant and growing proportion of imported gas is coming via LNG tanker vessels. This is part of a growing global energy economy and represents a safe and secure supply of natural gas from multiple, abundant sources throughout the world
Natural gas, which is mainly methane, is a liquid at minus 162 degrees centigrade. Therefore, a liquefaction plant refrigerates natural gas down to this temperature, whereupon it liquefies. As it cools, heavier hydrocarbons and impurities liquefy earlier and can be taken off, leaving a pure, clean methane-rich LNG at the end of the process. The resulting LNG is stored or transported in insulated or cryogenic refrigerated containers to the end users. This LNG can be either vaporised and fed into the national grid network, or transported as LNG to other users, such as road transport, where it is an ideal road fuel.
As a liquid, LNG has over twice the energy density of CNG and can therefore provide increased vehicle range for a given stored volume.
LNG is a very “dry” and “clean” gas, containing very little oil content. All pintle-type gas injectors require a certain amount of oil content to lubricate the injector seat metal-to-metal contact to avoid catastrophic wear. Hence, almost all injectors that operate well on CNG, fail due to accelerated wear when operated on LNG. Due to the unique and patented design of Clean Air Power’s gas injectors, both CNG and LNG source gas can be used. Most of Clean Air Power’s 1,600 in-field vehicles operate on LNG, using these injectors.
Clean Air Power vehicles can store LNG or CNG. The choice of fuel depends on the customer’s requirements or preferences. As part of the customer support process, Clean Air Power is happy to advise and assist customers in their selection of the most appropriate gas storage medium. Please contact us using the standard enquiry form:
On Dual-Fuelâ„¢ vehicles, CNG or LNG is heated and regulated so that a controlled flow of gas at a pressure of approximately 6 bar is fed to the gas injection system. The Dual-Fuelâ„¢ system itself operates fine on either gas medium.
Natural gas is cleaner and lower cost than diesel. It is the lowest carbon fuel of any fuel (except hydrogen). Therefore, the more you burn instead of diesel, the more money you save and the less CO2 is put into the atmosphere. In recent trials, lasting several months, Genesis has shown fuel cost reductions of 5p/km, extrapolated to £10,000 per year per truck. This, with an additional saving of 8.4 tonnes of CO2 makes it a worthwhile choice for both the operator and the environment.
I’ll try again then.For ‘detonate diesel fuel’ read ‘ignite diesel fuel under compression ignition’ sorry thought I explained the mistake.For ‘which would ignite petrol long before the spark does on a petrol engine’ read ‘which would ‘detonate’ petrol long before the spark ignites petrol,in a petrol engine,if you injected petrol into a diesel engine under diesel engine compression ratios at the same timing as you would with the diesel engine’.It’s my mistake in the way I was trying to explain the issue I’m getting at not anything wrong with the ideas themselves.
You are assuming that you would inject the petrol at the point of initiation of the compression stroke. Please read that the sequence of injection as per the information as recorded by the test results I posted. Dont think you have even gone to the site to learn more. The fuels are injected at different stages of the compression cycle. Not mix injected. The pressure needed for liquid petrol fuel (natural gas) is in fact higher that that of diesel fuel. You are thinking in the petroleum distilate you purchase at the gas pumps and not looking at the properties of the actual gasses being used.
Carryfast:
I’ll try again then.For ‘detonate diesel fuel’ read ‘ignite diesel fuel under compression ignition’ sorry thought I explained the mistake.For ‘which would ignite petrol long before the spark does on a petrol engine’ read ‘which would ‘detonate’ petrol long before the spark ignites petrol,in a petrol engine,if you injected petrol into a diesel engine under diesel engine compression ratios at the same timing as you would with the diesel engine’.It’s my mistake in the way I was trying to explain the issue I’m getting at not anything wrong with the ideas themselves.
I think I know where the problem lies with CF’s thinking. Every one knows that petrol is more dangerous than diesel don’t they? Why is petrol more dangerous?, cos it catches fire really easily from the slightest SPARK. Diesel on the other hand is really difficult to light unless you heat it first, sparks don’t ignite diesel do they? Common sense isn’t it? So far everyone agrees I think.
Where CF’s problem arises is the misunderstanding that when you compress a gas (fuel air mixture, any fuel will work) it gets hotter. Eventually when the mixture gets hot enough it will ignite spontaniously. Now the difficult bit, petrol ignites under compression at a higher temperature than diesel, provided there is no other source of ignition present. Which is why diesel engines don’t have spark plugs and petrol engines do. One uses compression to autoignite, the other uses a spark to flash ignite the fuel.
Something else the technology for the gasoline engine was developed in the most part on the later part of the 1700’s and the beginning of the 1800’s in a period in time when metalergy was in its most primitive stages example of which we all know of the Plating on the Titanic, which became fragile at sub zero temps. Advancements in gasoline engines has for the most part until the 1970s been minimal at best. For the most part if they can get the cars from point A to B all is good. Now that we are getting into more complex issues such as the enviroment the manufactures of these engines will be looking at ways to make them more efficient and dependable. Any time you need to provide a spark to fire an engine you are providing one more piece that can fail. Does a cor engine work well if a couple of the sparkplugs are not firing ? With compression ignition engines that part of the equation is elliminated. Vehical manufactures will only spend money where they have the need to up until the last few years they have not had the need that has now all changed hasnt it.
Back to the original discusion of Dual Fuel trucks running on methane & diesel. The engine has no spark plugs. Methane will not auto ignite at the compresion available from the standard diesel engine but diesel fuel will autoignite obviously. Methane is both cheaper and cleaner than diesel but won’t ignite in the diesel engine without some help. Remember there are no spark plugs. So after the methane is injected a small amount of diesel is injected seperately. As the piston compresses the fuel air mix the diesel reaches the temperature at which it ignites, setting off the methane by the equivalent of a spark ignition. That is probably as simply as it can be explained and is probably undestandable by a 10 year old.
Well that explains it I dont know how old Carryfast is maybe he just alls short of 10