Stobarts new volvos gas power

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
181

Brentanna:
My grandfather has an very old J Case tractor there was a small tank of gasoline when you went to start it you had to open the gas valve, start turning the motor and shut the valve and open the diesel line from the pump it was a pull lever. Im a farm girl

Sounds to me like you are getting rather confused with a decompressor valve.
You would open the fuel tap (it was probably diesel), ■■■■ the decompressor, start winging it over (by hand?) then get your helper to whack the valve in and on a good day, Bob’s your uncle & she’d be away.

TVO tractors started on petrol then when warm you turned the tap over to the TVO tank.
Helped a lot if you remembered to swop it back before parking up for the night.

Not 100% sure re TVO, but yes somewhere around a paraffin/Kerosene mix.

Brentanna are you American? Gasoline? Petrol to us Brits. :slight_smile:

182

dieseldave:

Big Jon’s dad:
I have a vague recollection of my dad talking about TVO, tractor vapourising oil, which involved starting the tractor engine on one fuel (may have been diesel) and then switching to TVO once the engine had warmed up. I think TVO may have been similar to parafin.

Hi BJD,

When I first left school, I worked on a farm.
The farmer was quite elderly, so he easily remembered the inter-war years, and he definitely mentioned TVO.
Much water has passed under the bridge and I’ve a sleep or two since, but I’m pretty sure that paraffin was mentioned in the same conversation.

A quick look at Wikipedia found me this:

Tractor vaporising oil - Wikipedia

Remember these Dave, just to remind us of the grey Fergie & the War? :stuck_out_tongue:

183

Wheel Nut:
Remember these Dave, just to remind us of the grey Fergie & the War? :stuck_out_tongue:

Hi Malc,

'fraid not, you’ve got me with that one. :frowning:

A neighbouring farm had a grey Fergie that we’d borrow now and again, but it was the ordinary diesel variety.

184

Scotish Canadian actually my boyfriend is a brit. I was born in Canada while my father was here with BP in the 60’s. And I know everytime I use to say petrol here people would look at me like I was clueless or something.

185

Carryfast a cat got you tounge you havent said a peep for a while. :stuck_out_tongue:

186

Driveroneuk:

Brentanna:
My grandfather has an very old J Case tractor there was a small tank of gasoline when you went to start it you had to open the gas valve, start turning the motor and shut the valve and open the diesel line from the pump it was a pull lever. Im a farm girl

Sounds to me like you are getting rather confused with a decompressor valve.

Brentanna are you American? Gasoline? Petrol to us Brits. :slight_smile:

Blimey don’t upset her any more. :laughing:

I was going to raise the issue of Cetane numbers of diesel in which lower Cetane means that it ignites slower at a higher point but detonates easier when it’s lit. :open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

187

Brentanna:
Carryfast a cat got you tounge you havent said a peep for a while. :stuck_out_tongue:

There’s only one thing scarier than a Scottish bird and that’s an Irish one as my old Grandad said about my Nan. :open_mouth: :laughing:

188

Sounds to me like you are getting rather confused with a decompressor valve.

nope the old fordson major had a decompression valve so I know what they are. Nope this was gas with a brass swing valve about 1/4 inch had a small manifold with 2 lines one going to each cylinder. I may have the timing a bit off bit I know he has to open the valve turn the engine over while opening the diesel valve which I think was a ball valve with a hooked rod to swing it kinda like the old tolleston carburators

189

There’s only one thing scarier than a Scottish bird and that’s an Irish one as my old Grandad said about my Nan

a wise man :laughing:

190

Carryfast:
I was going to raise the issue of Cetane numbers of diesel in which lower Cetane means that it ignites slower at a higher point but detonates easier when it’s lit. :open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Hi Carryfast,

You were going to raise that, OK fair enough- go ahead and raise it, but be prepared… :open_mouth:

Meanwhile, you also raised this, and it’s pure gold:

Carryfast:
We don’t put spark plugs in diesel engines because they detonate diesel fuel using compression ignition under massive cylinder pressures and temperatures which would ignite petrol long before the spark does on a petrol engine.

You still don’t get the idea of a flashpoint temperature being VERY DIFFERENT to an automatic ignition temperature do you?

191

dieseldave:

Carryfast:
I was going to raise the issue of Cetane numbers of diesel in which lower Cetane means that it ignites slower at a higher point but detonates easier when it’s lit. :open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Hi Carryfast,

You were going to raise that, OK fair enough- go ahead and raise it, but be prepared… :open_mouth:

Meanwhile, you also raised this, and it’s pure gold:

Carryfast:
We don’t put spark plugs in diesel engines because they detonate diesel fuel using compression ignition under massive cylinder pressures and temperatures which would ignite petrol long before the spark does on a petrol engine.

You still don’t get the idea of a flashpoint temperature being VERY DIFFERENT to an automatic ignition temperature do you?

For the umpteenth time I have’nt confused flash points with auto ignition temperatures.‘But’ the issue of internal combustion is far more complex than just relying on one simple auto ignition figure,that’s assuming you’ve got the figures right anyway,and ‘detonation’ can occurr at any stage in the combustion process even ‘after’ ‘ignition’ of the mixture.I will though admit to sometimes having used the terms ignition and detonation in the wrong contexts and it’s ‘detonation’,not ‘ignition’ and ‘combustion’,that I’m referring to as being the issue if that helps.

So maybe now it’s time for you to do some explaining as to how an engine,which is designed to run on a fuel,which is designed to ‘ignite’ and ‘burn’ correctly (50+ ‘Cetane’),under massive compression ratios and temperatures,can run correctly on a fuel which is designed to be ignited by a ‘timed’ spark and which is designed to ‘burn’,not ‘detonate’,under far lower compression pressures (in this context LPG which has an even higher ‘Octane’ rating than petrol).

The argument seems to consist of those who are saying that we can ‘burn’ a high octane fuel in a diesel engine,under far higher cylinder compression and temperature levels than it’s designed to ‘burn’ in,whereas the ‘correct’ fuel is ‘supposed’ to have the opposite qualities of having a high ‘Cetane’ rating :question: .

By the way if it’s all about auto ignition figures,and if those figures so far provided are correct,why would Brentanna have found it beneficial to start a diesel tractor on Petrol and not Diesel assuming that the Diesel ignites better at a lower temperature than petrol and what is the difference between trying to run a spark ignition petrol engine,at diesel engine compression ratios,on high octane fuel versus using the same fuel in a diesel engine regardless of how it’s ignited to start with :question: .Suggest you ask a few engine manufacturers of the likely outcome of running an engine,at diesel compression/cylinder pressure levels,on high Octane petrol,versus high Cetane diesel,before using LPG in a diesel engine.

192

LPG needs to be compressed to over 600lbs to auto ignite where have you ever seen a diesel engine with that kind of compression ? I gave you that information about 3 pages ago. Therefore you theory fails that test. What is the maximum compression you have seen on a diesel engine ? If I have to I will do each of the fuels that can be used separately and prove you wrong on each one. I will even do Xylene which can be used as a fuel. Like really you have links to the pages where the manufacturers give some information I have given you a link to a petrol engineers literature on the topic of diesel/ gas. You are just too thick headed to drop your failed reasoning, and admit you were WRONG.

193

By the way if it’s all about auto ignition figures,and if those figures so far provided are correct,why would Brentanna have found it beneficial to start a diesel tractor on Petrol and not Diesel assuming that the Diesel ignites better at a lower temperature than petrol and what is the difference between trying to run a spark ignition petrol engine,at diesel engine compression ratios,on high octane fuel versus using the same fuel in a diesel engine regardless of how it’s ignited to start with

THAT WAS MY GRANDFATHERS TRACTOR FROM LIKE THE 1920’S YOU MENTAL MIDGET. BUT IF YOU WANT TO ARGUE USING 100 YEAR OLD TECHLOLOGY WOULD EXPLAIN WHY YOU ARE SO ■■■■■■ UP.

For your information I asked an about that old tractor. the cylinders were horizontal twin cylinders, they used thick heavy oil, the gas was to thin the oil which would collect at the bottom of the cylinder wall, thus making it easier to turn over.

194

You are making yourself look really silly Carryfast. :blush: Another tidbit for you check out the history of the 1975-1985 General Motors 305 cu in motor same engine, same block same heads some gas others diesel one had glow plugs the other spark plugs. :open_mouth: maybe you should talk to some engine manufacturers :unamused: But by now 50% of the people visiting the forum think your nuts, the other 50% know your nuts. Rather than just sit here and argue give us the links that prove you BS. :bulb: Somewhere someone must have written something, you must be able to find manufacturers data and test results somewhere. :question: Show us there is someone else in the world who thinks the way you do and give us some links just as we have done for you. IN OTHER WORDS RATHER THAN JUST SPOUTING OFF SHOW US SOME PROOF> SIMPLE. :smiling_imp:

195

  1. You don’t/won’t win an arguement by SHOUTING.

  2. What engines do gas fork lift trucks have? (for the 3rd time)

  3. If diesel is heavy oil, what is that thick black sludge like substance called that some ships & commercial heating boilers run on?

In the 60’s - 70’s Land Rover used the same block for diesel & petrol engines. The petrol was over engineered, but the idea was a smaller parts inventory.

196

Driveroneuk:

  1. You don’t/won’t win an arguement by SHOUTING.

Shh, I’m trying to have a nap here.

  1. What engines do gas fork lift trucks have? (for the 3rd time)

I have no idea and I did google it but was no wiser afterwards. It appears there are different gases available for fork lift trucks including propane and CNG.

  1. If diesel is heavy oil, what is that thick black sludge like substance called that some ships & commercial heating boilers run on?

Even heavier fuel oil, it comes in different grades.

In the 60’s - 70’s Land Rover used the same block for diesel & petrol engines. The petrol was over engineered, but the idea was a smaller parts inventory.

Another aside remark: I once had a LR 110 station wagon that had a 3.5 litre Perkins diesel fitted. Loads of torque, but flat out at 50mph, and drank diesel like it was free. It was previously owned by a haulage company and was used as their recovery vehicle.

197

Driveroneuk:

  1. You don’t/won’t win an arguement by SHOUTING.

  2. What engines do gas fork lift trucks have? (for the 3rd time)

  3. If diesel is heavy oil, what is that thick black sludge like substance called that some ships & commercial heating boilers run on?

In the 60’s - 70’s Land Rover used the same block for diesel & petrol engines. The petrol was over engineered, but the idea was a smaller parts inventory.

Let em shout it’s all part of getting to the right answers in the end. :laughing:

That type of oil that you’re referring to concerning ships was bunker/fuel oil.But I think that was for oil fired boilers to run steam turbines not diesel engines used in motor vessels.

Forklifts who cares but yes they do have propane powered forklifts but I’ve never bothered to look to see wether it’s spark or compression ignition but I’d be willing to bet that it’s spark ignition which they use.

Land Rovers did have diesel versions of the petrol engine ‘but’ think you’ll find that the engine needed to be ‘over engineered’ considering the loads imposed on it in diesel spec.But the relevant bit is the compression ratio differences between the the petrol and diesel versions and the fuel called for.You certainly would’nt have got away with running a diesel land rover on petrol.Which is why they make diesel fuel for diesel engines and petrol for petrol engines.Simples.

198

No, that’s why they put spark plugs in petrol engines.

199

Let’s try again.

Why won’t a diesel engine run on petrol?
Answer, because there isn’t any spark to ignite the petrol/air mix at the flashpoint of petrol and the diesel engine doesn’t compress the petrol/air mix enough to reach the autoignition temperature of the petrol/air mix.

Why won’t a petrol engine run on diesel?
Answer, because the petrol engine doesn’t have enough compression to reach the autoignition temperature of the diesel/air mix and the flashpoint of the diesel/air mix is too high for the sparkplug to ignite the diesel/air mix.

Is that any clearer? If not read up on flashpoints and autoignition temperatures. Note as well that in the absense of a spark, like wot you find in a petrol engine, flashpoints are irrelevant.

200

Brentanna:
LPG needs to be compressed to over 600lbs to auto ignite where have you ever seen a diesel engine with that kind of compression ? I gave you that information about 3 pages ago. Therefore you theory fails that test. What is the maximum compression you have seen on a diesel engine ? If I have to I will do each of the fuels that can be used separately and prove you wrong on each one. I will even do Xylene which can be used as a fuel. Like really you have links to the pages where the manufacturers give some information I have given you a link to a petrol engineers literature on the topic of diesel/ gas. You are just too thick headed to drop your failed reasoning, and admit you were WRONG.

The relevant bit is what’s the Cetane rating of LPG versus diesel fuel. :question: