If a driver takes a 3 hour split daily rest during a shift does the 3 hours off double up as a split daily rest and a 45 minute break? For example recently i start a shift drive for 4h 28 min stop for 3hours 1 minute then drive 4h 27 min then stop and have 9 hours daily rest-does the 3h 1minute count towards my 45 minute break or should i have parked up for 3hours 45minutes for it to count as a split daily rest and 45 minute break?
CALUM:
If a driver takes a 3 hour split daily rest during a shift does the 3 hours off double up as a split daily rest and a 45 minute break? For example recently i start a shift drive for 4h 28 min stop for 3hours 1 minute then drive 4h 27 min then stop and have 9 hours daily rest-does the 3h 1minute count towards my 45 minute break or should i have parked up for 3hours 45minutes for it to count as a split daily rest and 45 minute break?
CALUM:
If a driver takes a 3 hour split daily rest during a shift does the 3 hours off double up as a split daily rest and a 45 minute break? For example recently i start a shift drive for 4h 28 min rest for 3hours 1 minute then drive 4h 27 min then stop and have 9 hours daily rest-does the 3h 1minute count towards my 45 minute break or should i have parked up for 3hours 45minutes for it to count as a split daily rest and 45 minute break?
Do you drive 4.29 and then have 11&3/4 hours rest at night? NO of course you dont so provided the bit in blue is rest and not work or POA
I hate the phrase, but are you free to do as you please in those 3 hours and 1 minute?
Prior to the last rule change the periods used for split daily rest could not be used for required breaks as well, something it seems very few people knew. However, since April 2007 the 3 hours can count for both rest and break, provided the conditions for rest, as Wheel Nut says, are met.
Ok thanks wheel nut and coffee for that info was not sure under the new rules which came out in 2007 if the 3 hours off doubled up as rest and break but now i know.
What happens now if i run to an aetr country under aetr rules,am i correct in saying that aetr rules are the same as the old hours regs (3820), if i do a split daily rest under aetr for example do a 16 hour shift with 4 hours off during shift then park up for 8 hours does that 4 hours off only count as split rest and does not count towards a 45 minute break?
CALUM:
Ok thanks wheel nut and coffee for that info was not sure under the new rules which came out in 2007 if the 3 hours off doubled up as rest and break but now i know.
What happens now if i run to an aetr country under aetr rules,am i correct in saying that aetr rules are the same as the old hours regs (3820), if i do a split daily rest under aetr for example do a 16 hour shift with 4 hours off during shift then park up for 8 hours does that 4 hours off only count as split rest and does not count towards a 45 minute break?
As far as I remember mixed driving of this type is now aligned with 561/2006
Under the new (2010) AETR regs a driver cannot use REST as a driving BREAK
This is still one of the differences between EU REGS and the NEW AETR REGS
I found the whole chapter and verse of this!
The red text shows the differences between the two regulations
International journeys to or through countries that are outside the EU but are signatories to the AETR are subject to AETR rules, which currently mirror the old Regulation (EEC) 3820/85.
The AETR rules were aligned with Council Regulation (EEC) 3820/85 in April 1992. Until a further alignment occurs, these will remain in force. Some specialised vehicles are exempt from the rules. For a full list refer to the regulation.
Breaks
After a period of no more than 4.5 hours of driving, a driver must take a break of at least 45 minutes, unless the driver begins a daily or weekly rest period.
Alternatively, a full 45-minute break can be replaced by two or three breaks of no less than 15 minutes during or immediately after the driving period, so that the total break time adds up to at least 45 minutes in the 4.5 hours of driving. Breaks of less than 15 minutes will not contribute towards the qualifying break time, but neither will they be counted as duty or driving time.
Daily driving limit
The maximum daily driving time is 9 hours.
This can be increased to 10 hours twice a week.
Weekly driving limit
The AETR rules define no maximum weekly driving limit. However, a weekly rest period must be taken after no more than six daily driving periods. It is possible to drive up to 56 hours between weekly rest periods (or 58 hours if the six daily periods straddle two ‘fixed’ weeks).
Fortnightly driving limit
The maximum fortnightly driving time is 90 hours.
Daily rest periods
A driver must take a daily rest period of at least 11 continuous hours. This must be taken within each period of 24 hours after the end of the previous daily or weekly rest period.
Alternatively, 12 hours’ daily rest may be spread over the 24-hour period, taken in two or three periods, the last of which must be at least 8 consecutive hours, and all of which must be at least 1 hour.
Drivers may reduce their daily rest period to no less than 9 continuous hours, although this can be done no more than three times in each fixed week. Reduced daily rest must be compensated for by an equivalent period by the end of the week following the week when the reductions took place. This compensating rest does not have to be taken in one block, but each piece must be added to another rest period of at least 8 hours’ duration.
To summarise, a driver who begins work at 06.00 on day 1 must, by 06.00 on day 2 at the latest, have completed either:
-
a daily rest period of at least 11 hours; or
-
a split daily rest period of at least 12 hours; or
-
if entitled, a daily rest period of no less than 9 hours.
And for anyone else who wonders wtf I am on, here is the list of AETR countries.
Albania
Andorra
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Croatia
Kazakhstan
Liechtenstein
Macedonia
Moldova
Russia
Serbia and Montenegro
Turkey
Turkmenistan
Ukraine
Uzbekistan
ROG:
Under the new (2010) AETR regs a driver cannot use REST as a driving BREAK
This is still one of the differences between EU REGS and the NEW AETR REGS
Where in the AETR regulations does it say that rest cannot be used as a driving break ? 
To quote the regulations that you linked to:
Breaks
- After a driving period of four and a half hours, a driver shall take an
uninterrupted break of not less than 45 minutes, unless he begins a rest period
Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m guessing that what you read was:
- The breaks observed under this article may not be regarded as daily rest periods.
Breaks cannot be regarded as daily rest just as they can’t in the EU regulations, but that does not mean that you have to take a rest period and a break.
CALUM:
What happens now if i run to an aetr country under aetr rules,am i correct in saying that aetr rules are the same as the old hours regs (3820), if i do a split daily rest under aetr for example do a 16 hour shift with 4 hours off during shift then park up for 8 hours does that 4 hours off only count as split rest and does not count towards a 45 minute break?
For the new AETR regulations a split daily rest would be the same as for EU regulations, 3 consecutive hours rest during the shift then at least 9 hours rest at the end of the shift to be completed within the 24 hour period from the start of shift.
For a split daily rest under AETR regulations the rest during the shift which should be at least 3 hours would reset the clock for the driving time so at the end of the 3 hour rest period you would have 4 1/2 hours driving time left before needing a 45 minute break.
ROG:
Under the new (2010) AETR regs a driver cannot use REST as a driving BREAK
Think about that for a minute. If that were true then if you finished your shift with say 3.5 hours driving and took a daily rest period you would only be able to drive for 1 hour in the next shift before requiring a 45 minute break.
You’ve read something and then turned it arse about face when you wrote the above.
As the subject was split daily rest then perhaps I should have been clearer …
Under the 2010 AETR rules the 3 hours used for split daily rest cannot also be used a a break for the driving because breaks cannot be used as rest periods
to reset the driving clock and to have 3 hours for a split dailt rest would require the driver to have 3 hrs & 45 mins off
Article 713
Breaks
- After a driving period of four and a half hours, a driver shall take an
uninterrupted break of not less than 45 minutes, unless he begins a rest period. - This break, as defined in article 1, paragraph (n), of this Agreement, may be
replaced by a break of at least 15 minutes followed by a break of at least 30 minutes
each distributed over the driving period or immediately after this period in such a way
as to comply with the provisions of paragraph 1. - For the purposes of this article, the waiting time and time not devoted to driving
spent in a vehicle in motion, a ferryboat or a train shall not be regarded as ‘other work’,
as defined in article 1, paragraph (q), of this Agreement, and will be able to be qualified
as a “break”. - The breaks observed under this article may not be regarded as daily rest periods.
ROG:
As the subject was split daily rest then perhaps I should have been clearer …Under the 2010 AETR rules the 3 hours used for split daily rest cannot also be used a a break for the driving because breaks cannot be used as rest periods
to reset the driving clock and to have 3 hours for a split dailt rest would require the driver to have 3 hrs & 45 mins off
Article 713
Breaks
- After a driving period of four and a half hours, a driver shall take an
uninterrupted break of not less than 45 minutes, unless he begins a rest period.- This break, as defined in article 1, paragraph (n), of this Agreement, may be
replaced by a break of at least 15 minutes followed by a break of at least 30 minutes
each distributed over the driving period or immediately after this period in such a way
as to comply with the provisions of paragraph 1.- For the purposes of this article, the waiting time and time not devoted to driving
spent in a vehicle in motion, a ferryboat or a train shall not be regarded as ‘other work’,
as defined in article 1, paragraph (q), of this Agreement, and will be able to be qualified
as a “break”.- The breaks observed under this article may not be regarded as daily rest periods.
Take a period of three hours during the shift and, provided those three hours meet the rest criteria, it is a rest period which then I think satisfies the requirements of Article 7.1.
Note 7. 1 just says a rest period and doesn’t stipulate the length of that period. Therefore any period which qualifies as rest surely meets the requirements of 7.1 be it 9 hours, 11 hours, 24 hours, 45 hours or in the situation being discussed in this thread 3 hours. In other words any rest period will reset the drive time clock.
Although there are different variations on a rest period the basic meaning is the same throughout the regulations so it surely cannot therefore be claimed a rest period satisfies the requirements of Article 1 (o) (i) yet doesn’t satisfy Article 7. 1. Unless Article 7. 4 overrides Article 1 (o) (i)
As I said before, rest must count as a break from driving otherwise you could find yourself having to take a break very early in your shift when the last driving period of your previous shift and your current drive period total 4.5 hours. We all know that is nonsense because when we start a shift we have a full 4.5 hours available, unless you have done more than 51.5 hours in the week or 85.5 in the fortnight, so therefore a rest period is clearly also a break from driving otherwise it wouldn’t reset the 4.5 hour driving time clock.
That’s my take on it anyway, which could be total ■■■■■■■■ as the wording in the current AETR rules is the same as in the pre April 2007 EU rules and the shorter part(s) of split daily rest then couldn’t also be break.
ROG:
As the subject was split daily rest then perhaps I should have been clearer …Under the 2010 AETR rules the 3 hours used for split daily rest cannot also be used a a break for the driving because breaks cannot be used as rest periods
to reset the driving clock and to have 3 hours for a split dailt rest would require the driver to have 3 hrs & 45 mins off
ROG there is not one rule for breaks as far as split daily rest periods are concerned and another rule for regular or reduced daily rest periods.
The quotes bellow come from the AETR regulations which started in September 2010.
Article 1
Definitions
(u) “Driving period” means the accumulated driving time from when a driver
commences driving following a rest period or a break until he takes a rest period or a
break. The driving period may be continuous or broken;
Article 7
Breaks
- After a driving period of four and a half hours, a driver shall take an
uninterrupted break of not less than 45 minutes, unless he begins a rest period.
A driving period begins when a driver commences driving following a break or rest period and the regulations say that after 4.5 hours driving you should have the 45 minute driving break unless you’re starting a rest period, so you don’t need the break before the rest period, article 1 (u) makes it clear that a rest period resets the clock as far as a driving period is concerned so it’s impossible to argue the case that you would still need a 45 minute break after a 3 hour rest period 
- The breaks observed under this article may not be regarded as daily rest periods.
A break cannot be regarded as a rest period because just like the EU regulations the criteria for a rest period is more stringent that the criteria for a break.
I can only repeat the interperetation on the new AETR regs as told to me by someone who is VERY well respected on this site on these type of issues
As I’ve sent him an e-mail with a link to this, I expect he will post soon …
ROG:
I can only repeat the interperetation on the new AETR regs as told to me by someone who is VERY well respected on this site on these type of issuesAs I’ve sent him an e-mail with a link to this, I expect he will post soon …
So in that case it will only be 3 hour periods where you do actually require a driving break, either because you have reached 4.5 hours or the driving after the 3 hours added to the driving before it will take you beyond 4.5 hours which won’t count toward split daily rest.
So, under the new AETR rules,
Drive 3 hours
Rest 3 hours
Drive 1 hour
Rest 9 hours
would be fine as no driving break was required so the 3 hours can all be rest? Article 7.4 says The breaks observed under this article may not be regarded as daily rest periods. but as no driving break was required the 3 hours was not observed under Article 7.
However,
Drive 3 hours
Rest 3 hours
Drive 2 hours
Rest 9 hours
would not be fine as part of the 3 hours would have to be a 45 minute break? I can see that as it is the way it was prior to April 2007.
Seems strange they have left it like that rather than align the two sets of regulations completely. There’ll be some money made out of that.
Looking at those two senarios, that is exactly of what I was informed was the correct interpretation
I also thought it was a strange way of doing things which is why I questioned it more than once
Why they did not just scrap the AETR regs altogether and make the current EU regs cover both is beyond me but that’s civil servants/politicians for ya 
Coffeeholic:
ROG:
I can only repeat the interperetation on the new AETR regs as told to me by someone who is VERY well respected on this site on these type of issuesAs I’ve sent him an e-mail with a link to this, I expect he will post soon …
So in that case it will only be 3 hour periods where you do actually require a driving break, either because you have reached 4.5 hours or the driving after the 3 hours added to the driving before it will take you beyond 4.5 hours which won’t count toward split daily rest.
It would make no sense whatsoever and would show articles in the regulations contradicting one another, the regulations clearly state that a driving period is the time spent driving which commences after a break or a rest period and finishes when the driver takes either a new break or rest period.
As far as I can see nowhere in the AETR regulations does it state that the rest period in question has to be a complete daily rest period, but the regulations do state that a driver should take a 45 minute break after 4.5 hours driving “unless he begins a rest period”.
I stand by my earlier comments that a 3 hour rest period resets the clock as far as driving time is concerned until proven wrong.
tachograph:
I stand by my earlier comments that a 3 hour rest period resets the clock as far as driving time is concerned until proven wrong.
Problem is the AETR rules are worded the same as the pre April 2007 EU rules and the periods could all be rest under those rules unless a driving break was required when however much break was required would be subtracted.
It does seem strange they have gone for the two period 3 + 9 option and removed the three period ? + ? + 8 hour one yet left this in.
“The breaks observed under this article may not be regarded as daily rest periods”, I agree, but then you won’t have had a break or need a break if the 4.5 hours driving time is immediately succeeded by a rest period.
The AETR regulations say so
After a driving period of four and a half hours, a driver shall take an
uninterrupted break of not less than 45 minutes, unless he begins a rest period.
tachograph:
“The breaks observed under this article may not be regarded as daily rest periods”, I agree, but then you won’t have had a break or need a break if the 4.5 hours driving time is immediately succeeded by a rest period.The AETR regulations say so
After a driving period of four and a half hours, a driver shall take an
uninterrupted break of not less than 45 minutes, unless he begins a rest period.
Yeah, but you know what we always say about reading all the regulations and applying them to the situation. I have a feeling Article 7.4 trumps 7.1. The wording is the same as the pre April 2007 rules and this was the situation then.
Coffeeholic:
I have a feeling Article 7.4 trumps 7.1.
I have been informed by a man in the know that GENERALLY a second rule trumps a previous one so your feeling is 1st class 