When I say ‘you’ I don’t mean any person in particular, I’m just not posh so don’t use ‘one’
yorkshireborn:
welshboyinspain:
how is the overtaker being a ■■■■? this attitude is why we all get a bad name for “elephant racing” from car drivers and truck drivers no longer have respect from Joe Public. what is the cost of 30 seconds of backing off to let him pass, maybe hurts your pride too much
30 seconds is not alot, however how many times a day do you think a driver being overtaken (or who has someone attempting to overtake)
should slow down.
arronls:
Over a distance of three miles a constant 56 mph will get you there 192.86 seconds
Over the same distance, but doing 56 for 2 miles and 53 for 1 will get you there in 196.5 seconds
Can anyone honestly say 3.64 seconds is going to make ANY impact on their day? That’s 16.5 overtakes before you’ve lost a minute. Seriously? You’re THAT pushed for time?
If 1 minute makes that much difference to you, you must have hours infringements coming out of your ears.
It’s not about the time - it’s being too lazy to knock the CC off for a few seconds and the feeling that by being overtaken there are conclusions that can be drawn about your manhood
yorkshireborn:
i will not slow down if the numpty trying to overtake got alongside by letting his vehicle run over on a downhill
Carryfast:
‘…drive trucks … in a totally risk free way…’
I’ll not ask what the proposed circumstances are invisaged as being - or of what the behaviour pattern would consist since it is not possible, unless the sole purpose of submitting that was ill-informed humour (from a professional?) at another forum member’s expense
A lot on here seems to have missed what was said in the original post, the Waitrose guy seems to have moved over to let the MRS onto the moterway surely MRS should have eased off.
The subject has been( as coffee has said already) been spoken about many times on here & will never be resolved (look at all the different opinions) untill you all get old & grey like me & start to chill I even back off uphill if someone`s struggling.
How far back in the day are you going to be for the sake of a couple of minutes chill per day?
When I was a bairn and out with my Dad in his truck, he used to work on the principle of once the cab was past his, then he would ease off and let him by if he the other truck needed it. Obviously I’m going back to the 60s and 70s, so you didn’t get the slow creep past so much that you see today, but as a rule of thumb it works pretty well.
Carryfast:
‘…drive trucks … in a totally risk free way…’
I’ll not ask what the proposed circumstances are invisaged as being - or of what the behaviour pattern would consist since it is not possible, unless the sole purpose of submitting that was ill-informed humour (from a professional?) at another forum member’s expense
No it was just a bit of light hearted sarcastic banter having got a bit bored with the idea that we can cut risk by slowing down traffic to dangerous levels in which following traffic seems to have been totally forgotten about in the equation thereby causing more risk not less?.But hopefully Rog realised that it was’nt meant in the context which you seem to think.
albion:
When I was a bairn and out with my Dad in his truck, he used to work on the principle of once the cab was past his, then he would ease off and let him by if he the other truck needed it. Obviously I’m going back to the 60s and 70s, so you didn’t get the slow creep past so much that you see today, but as a rule of thumb it works pretty well.
But it’s a totally different situation now with speed limiters causing much lower speed differentials in which that easing off has to be far greater causing bigger problems to following traffic flows than it did back then.
greek:
A lot on here seems to have missed what was said in the original post, the Waitrose guy seems to have moved over to let the MRS onto the moterway surely MRS should have eased off.
The subject has been( as coffee has said already) been spoken about many times on here & will never be resolved (look at all the different opinions) untill you all get old & grey like me & start to chill I even back off uphill if someone`s struggling.
How far back in the day are you going to be for the sake of a couple of minutes chill per day?
More or less word for word that I wanted to say.
But it’s a totally different situation now with speed limiters causing much lower speed differentials in which that easing off has to be far greater causing bigger problems to following traffic flows than it did back then.
[/quote]
Correct me if Im wrong,and Im sure you will.
without speed limiters, will we not still have the same problem,only at higher speeds.
as a professional driver if this happens to me, i’ll keep it on the limiter going up hill but i’ll ease of on the flat to let him past. unless we’re approaching a junction cos 9/10 the overtaking truck will pull off.
greek:
But it’s a totally different situation now with speed limiters causing much lower speed differentials in which that easing off has to be far greater causing bigger problems to following traffic flows than it did back then.
Correct me if Im wrong,and Im sure you will.
without speed limiters, will we not still have the same problem,only at higher speeds.
Example. Vehicle in lane 1 travelling at 50 mph/80 kmh needs to be overtaken by vehicle following.At 85 kmh/53 mph it’s going to take that following overtaking vehicle a lot longer to get by than if he was able to run at 65 mph or even run the thing up to 70 mph+ as we did in the days before limiters.But in the nanny state 21 st century speed has become a dirty word and we’re being led to believe (falsely) that disaster will strike if we run at those speeds.So the answer given in this brave new PC world is for the slower vehicle to back off even more to provide a decent speed differential in order to facilitate a faster overtake.But to provide that 15-20 mph speed differential that we had in the better days that slower vehicle will have to back off to around 33-38 mph at which point as I said it’s going to cause some significant issues to following trucks travelling at the limited 85 kmh.However if they are saying back off by less than that 15-20 mph there would’nt be much point because if it’s only going to provide a speed diffferential of less that 15 mph backing off is’nt going to do much about the problem of long overtaking times.Which is why you would’nt dream of trying to overtake a vehicle travelling at 50 mph with one limited to 53 mph on a single carriageway road and you certainly could’nt/should’nt rely on the vehicle being overtaken to get you out of the s…t by slowing up/braking sharply,possibly causing a multiple shunt in the following traffic,if you were stupid enough to try it.Maybe that expert copper could give an opinion on that situation and if he agrees with that then why should it be any different on a motorway?.
You know I had such a well thought out reply, with counter arguements and alternative suggestions, but instead I will just stick to 50mph on the motorway and 40mph on single carriageway roads.
I am picking up my dinner and moving to another table, metaphorically speaking of course.
oatcake1967:
You know I had such a well thought out reply, with counter arguements and alternative suggestions, but instead I will just stick to 50mph on the motorway and 40mph on single carriageway roads.
In which case my argument still stands.At 50 mph on the motorway you’re running at less than the limited 53 although it’s just an acedemic differential anyway allowing for differences in limiter calibration between different trucks.However it’s running at those low speeds which is mostly the cause of being caught up by those running at that very slightly higher speed leaving them with just the choice of slowing down or trying to overtake you in which case as the experts seem to think you’ll need to slow down even more to help them get by in a reasonable amount of time causing following traffic behind you to have to slow up to that speed as well in order to maintain seperation distance at which point you’ve probably reduced the runnning speed in lane 1 to less than 40 mph and caused a ripple efffect going back for miles too.So we’ve got millions being spent putting in ever more lanes on motorways just for traffic to travel at ever slower speeds.And yes I know that 40 mph is the limit for trucks on single carriageway roads so at that speed you would’nt attempt to overtake a vehicle travelling at 37 mph on a single carriageway if you’ve got any sense but as a rule it’s always safest for the overtaking vehicle,of whatever type,to provide the required speed differential by going as fast as possible not rely on the one being overtaken to do it by slowing up.So let’s hear those well thought out counter arguments if there are any.
oatcake1967:
You know I had such a well thought out reply, with counter arguements and alternative suggestions, but instead I will just stick to 50mph on the motorway and 40mph on single carriageway roads.
In which case my argument still stands.At 50 mph on the motorway you’re running at less than the limited 53 although it’s just an acedemic differential anyway allowing for differences in limiter calibration between different trucks.However it’s running at those low speeds which is mostly the cause of being caught up by those running at that very slightly higher speed leaving them with just the choice of slowing down or trying to overtake you in which case as the experts seem to think you’ll need to slow down even more to help them get by in a reasonable amount of time causing following traffic behind you to have to slow up to that speed as well in order to maintain seperation distance at which point you’ve probably reduced the runnning speed in lane 1 to less than 40 mph and caused a ripple efffect going back for miles too.So we’ve got millions being spent putting in ever more lanes on motorways just for traffic to travel at ever slower speeds.And yes I know that 40 mph is the limit for trucks on single carriageway roads so at that speed you would’nt attempt to overtake a vehicle travelling at 37 mph on a single carriageway if you’ve got any sense but as a rule it’s always safest for the overtaking vehicle,of whatever type,to provide the required speed differential by going as fast as possible not rely on the one being overtaken to do it by slowing up.So let’s hear those well thought out counter arguments if there are any.
It doesn’t matter if you do 5 or 105, all you need is someone else doing 5.00001 or 105.000001 and the situation is EXACTLY the same.
No one is suggesting you should jump on the brakes, put the handbrake on and jump out to give him a wave - all you need to do is knock it down a notch or 2 for a few seconds so the difference in speeds is greater.
The point you consistently fail to see, or choose to ignore, is that, irrespective of how we ended up with limiters, or who is to blame for their introduction/enforcement they are an everyday integral part of a professional HGV drivers working day.
A professional will take that into account in the execution of his duty, whilst maintaining the utmost responsibility and respect for other road users. This may sound all rather idealistic but even in base level speak, it conveys the same message; ‘Just cos you have a limiter and you don’t like it, it don’t mean you can drive like a ■■■■ and stuff the consequences to others!’
Even without going into the details of watching the road ahead, advanced planning and executing safe manoeuvres, no professional driver should find themselves stranded in lane 2 for miles upon miles because of stubbornness by either driver.
You obviously think that your username is also your God-given right, never mind the safety of others or indeed, respect/compliance with the law. Your arguments and accusations that those who say ‘slow down by a couple of kmh’ are totally wrong, are flawed, certainly not proven or justified. If as you say, the problem is the lack of difference between the speed differentials [due to limiters] then the right course of action is to increase that speed differential. Speeding up is not an option so the obvious thing is to slow down.
I’m about done with this thread. It’s obvious what the majority of professional drivers think/do but, as always, there’s one or two lost causes who can’t/won’t see sense and think they have to carry [their load as] fast as possible at all times, and it is those ‘drivers’ who get ‘professionals’ a bad name.
An excellent quote;
oatcake1967:
I am picking up my dinner and moving to another table, metaphorically speaking of course.
What a waste of space this topic is, if you’re a professional driver it’s blindingly obvious which is the correct course of action For those who aren’t, I can’t be a%@ed to enter into any discourse, suffice to say that you’re a complete numpty if you don’t know and should hand your licence back to Swansea at your soonest convenience, for all our sakes
The point you consistently fail to see, or choose to ignore, is that, irrespective of how we ended up with limiters, or who is to blame for their introduction/enforcement they are an everyday integral part of a professional HGV drivers working day.
A professional will take that into account in the execution of his duty, whilst maintaining the utmost responsibility and respect for other road users. This may sound all rather idealistic but even in base level speak, it conveys the same message; ‘Just cos you have a limiter and you don’t like it, it don’t mean you can drive like a [zb] and stuff the consequences to others!’
Even without going into the details of watching the road ahead, advanced planning and executing safe manoeuvres, no professional driver should find themselves stranded in lane 2 for miles upon miles because of stubbornness by either driver.
You obviously think that your username is also your God-given right, never mind the safety of others or indeed, respect/compliance with the law. Your arguments and accusations that those who say ‘slow down by a couple of kmh’ are totally wrong, are flawed,
I reckon that you need some glasses if you think that what I’ve written shows any lack of responsibility and respect for other road users and if you think that backing off by ‘a couple of kmh’ will solve that problem of trucks getting stranded in the overtaking lane at 53 kmh you need some maths lessons as well.But just because you can’t understand the basic physics which cause bunching,ripple effects,and the type of speed differentials required to provide safe overtaking does’nt give you the right to drive like a zb and stuff the consequences to others.But go and tell all of your expert advice to the victims the next time that there’s a nose to tail pile up on the motorway caused by bunching and some idiot slowing up for no reason at the head of a line of traffic.
Carryfast:
…to the victims the next time that there’s a nose to tail pile up on the motorway caused by bunching and some idiot slowing up for no reason at the head of a line of traffic.
Did I miss something here…
… I thought a nose to tail pile up can only be caused by drivers being too close to the one in front ?
Carryfast:
…to the victims the next time that there’s a nose to tail pile up on the motorway caused by bunching and some idiot slowing up for no reason at the head of a line of traffic.
Did I miss something here…
… I thought a nose to tail pile up can only be caused by drivers being too close to the one in front ?
Absolutely right Rog but there are exceptions which prove every rule and a decent seperation distance can be wiped out very quickly in the case of the type of scenario which is the subject of this thread argument and you’ve said before yourself that we have to make allowances for the worst drivers out there.
I have always lifted when another vehicle is takes time to pass but when they have passed they are soon away, it is a none event, just lift when they pass foot down again wheres the problem
fuse:
I have always lifted when another vehicle is takes time to pass but when they have passed they are soon away, it is a none event, just lift when they pass foot down again wheres the problem
That does’nt seem like a typical reflection of many real world situations though.If he was ‘soon away’ then he should have had no problem in soon getting past.But the example by ‘the experts’ is lift enough to provide an extra 2 kmh speed differential.It’s a mathematical impossibility for that to make much of a difference in getting an average truck past another one quickly.The problem as I’ve said is when someone backs off enough,from an already relatively slow speed,to provide a realistic decent speed differential for a truck to pass quickly at it’s limited speed of 85 kmh.
Glasses not required according to the optician whom tested my eyes on the 31st of last month.
Maths? Okay, here’s some maths for you taking 2 vehicles, one travelling at 80kmh, one travelling at 85kmh (50mph & 53mph respectively).
80kmh = 22 meters per second.
85kmh = 23 meters per second.
5kmh road speed differential equals 1 meter per second +/-
So, despite you claiming that 50 or 53mph makes no difference, in actual fact it makes a difference of 1 meter per second.
Taking into account a typical C+E vehicle will be 18.25 meters long, it stands to reason that, if one vehicle eases off the accelerator to the tune of 5kmh or 3mph, the overtaking manoeuvre will last less than 20 secs.
The example in the OP mentioned an overtake that was in the region of 10 miles. 10 miles = 6.2km or 6200 meters. 6200 meters at 1 meter per second = 103.33333 minutes
at which point as I said it’s going to cause some significant issues to following trucks travelling at the limited 85 kmh.However if they are saying back off by less than that 15-20 mph there would’nt be much point because if it’s only going to provide a speed diffferential of less that 15 mph backing off is’nt going to do much about the problem of long overtaking times.Which is why you would’nt dream of trying to overtake a vehicle travelling at 50 mph with one limited to 53 mph on a single carriageway road and you certainly could’nt/should’nt rely on the vehicle being overtaken to get you out of the s…t by slowing up/braking sharply,possibly causing a multiple shunt in the following traffic,if you were stupid enough to try it.Maybe that expert copper could give an opinion on that situation and if he agrees with that then why should it be any different on a motorway?.
For those who aren’t, I can’t be a%
