So called professional's!

[oatcake1967]

Red or white mate

[trev_h]

oatcake1967:
Red or white mate

Hope its a big resturant, I think there’ll be a fair few joining you
This thread is like being on the limiter, someone ease off and let him go past.

[carryfast]

marcustandy:

Carryfast:
I reckon that you need some glasses

you need some maths lessons as well.

Glasses not required according to the optician whom tested my eyes on the 31st of last month.

Maths? Okay, here’s some maths for you taking 2 vehicles, one travelling at 80kmh, one travelling at 85kmh (50mph & 53mph respectively).

80kmh = 22 meters per second.

85kmh = 23 meters per second.

5kmh road speed differential equals 1 meter per second +/-

So, despite you claiming that 50 or 53mph makes no difference, in actual fact it makes a difference of 1 meter per second.

Taking into account a typical C+E vehicle will be 18.25 meters long, it stands to reason that, if one vehicle eases off the accelerator to the tune of 5kmh or 3mph, the overtaking manoeuvre will last less than 20 secs.

The example in the OP mentioned an overtake that was in the region of 10 miles. 10 miles = 6.2km or 6200 meters. 6200 meters at 1 meter per second = 103.33333 minutes

Professional overtaking manoeuvre:

On the limiter = 103.33333 minutes (1.722 hrs)

Easing off by 5kmh = less than 20 secs.

Go figure, Einstein!!

Oatcake! Is my seat at that table ready yet??

It does’nt take Einstien to know that 10 miles = 16 kilometers not 6.2 and a safe overtake needs a lot more than one truck lenghth to be covered in lane 2 at the faster speed.However there are plenty of drivers who’d like to think that they are professionals who do think that all it needs to carry out an overtake is to pull out into lane 2 just inches away from the vehicle to be overtaken and return to lane 1 again leaving just inches behind them .But from the figures it seems certain that I’m talking about a totally different situation to an unsuccessful pointless attempt to overtake a truck by another which did’nt need to be overtaken at all as the speed differential was obviously non existent or maybe he was caught out trying to overtake one of those idiots who like to travel at 40 mph until someone attempts to overtake them and then decide to match the speed of the poor zb who’s stuck out in lane 2 on the limiter .But then Einstien never tried to make out that he was a professional truck driver.

[carryfast]

newmercman:
I totally sympathise with you, those speed limiters are the biggest stress inducer for drivers, all they do is cause misery to everybody, you end up sitting far too close to other vehicles, you get cut up by cars wanting to get from the outside lane because you’re stuck in a 53mph train, I hate them with a passion, as most of you know because I go on & on & on about it, I now drive in Canada & the USA, I don’t have a limiter, although my firm likes us not to go over 75mph too often it makes it so much easier on me, I recently came back to England for a couple of months & while I was there I did a couple of weeks trucking, all I seemed to be doing was losing my rag all the time, since I’ve been back I haven’t got the hump once, yeah I know the roads are quiter in places, but even running through Chicago yesterday (which has as much traffic as the M25) I wasn’t once stuck behind anybody, if someone was in the way I just put my foot down & went past, I may have gone over the limit a bit, but even though I was technically speeding it was a lot safer than pushing someone down the road for miles on end.

That’s the problem over there, everyone has this big hard on about speeding, even in a car, I went down to Devon to visit some family & on a single track bit of the A303 overtook a few cars, I was doing 65-70mph, of the ten or so cars I passed, three of them went beserk, flashing their lights & making Nescafe signs at me, at one of the roundabouts I stopped & wound my window down & asked the bloke who’d just flashed me WTF he was flashing for & he said because I was speeding, I asked him WTF it had to do with him, did he have a calibrated speedo, was he the law etc etc? He had no answer, which was probably a good thing as I was ready to uphold a personal law of my own (The one that requires me to punch stupid people in the face) but getting back to the subject, before limiters, most of us used to run around 60-65mph, if you caught something up, you went around it, simple really, contrast that with today & you eventually catch somebody, you have a few choices, overtake, no matter how long it takes, sit right up his/her arse or back off, this will then cause the bloke behind you to come around & get in the space you’re trying to leave in front of you, it’s madness & yet it’s supposedly for safety reasons

I would bet that 99% of rear end shunts between lorries would not happen if there were no limiters.

newmercman are there any jobs going over there as it seems that the PC b…s in the government have succeeded in brainwashing all of the British drivers left over here except for me.

[marcustandy]

Carryfast:
10 miles = 16 kilometers not 6.2

Typo; gulity as charged. I did of course mean 10km = 6.2 miles.

[marcustandy]

Carryfast:
it seems that the PC b…s in the government have succeeded in brainwashing all of the British drivers

Not necessarily. This thread wasn’t about the right and wrong of speed limiters and if they should have ever been introduced. That’s a different discussion altogether.

The fact is, right here and now, we’re stuck with them and we can make them less of a PITA, more so for other road users, by realising the only option we have is to slow down to break the overtaking deadlock.

[carryfast]

marcustandy:

Carryfast:
10 miles = 16 kilometers not 6.2

Typo; gulity as charged. I did of course mean 10km = 6.2 miles.

That’s not the issue it’s the idea that the figure for calculating the time needed to safely overtake one truck with another only needs to be based on the distance of one truck length which is where the idea of backing off by just 2 kmh all goes pearshaped and if we throw a few more slower trucks into the equation also needing to be passed before you can safely return to lane 1 leaving sufficient space between you and the last one overtaken in the line then you would probably need them all to back off to around 30 mph or less if you don’t want to be stuck out in lane 2 for very long.

[carryfast]

marcustandy:

Carryfast:
it seems that the PC b…s in the government have succeeded in brainwashing all of the British drivers

Not necessarily. This thread wasn’t about the right and wrong of speed limiters and if they should have ever been introduced. That’s a different discussion altogether.

The fact is, right here and now, we’re stuck with them and we can make them less of a PITA, more so for other road users, by realising the only option we have is to slow down to break the overtaking deadlock.

According to the expert copper’s view this thread includes most types of scenario involving the truck overtaking issue in general not just the ridiculous case in the OP’s experience ?.In which case there is an inextricable link between the effect on road safety which limiters have,in the context of overtaking,and that of overtaking by trucks taking far longer than it should be and the loss of seperation distances/bunching since their introduction.

[happy_keith]

oatcake1967:
‘…I am picking up my dinner and moving to another table…’

Nice one. I’ve politely finished my dinner and taken my plate & diggers back.

Am now taking an in lieu pudding (ie, horizontally with eyes closed) in the office.

[mr_b]

marcustandy:
One of his main examples of bad [HGV] driving was the original subject of this thread i.e. prolonged ‘overtaking’. He had personally attended a number of accidents/incidents that had been caused by the concertina effect of the long queues caused by the very kind of overtaking described by Governor in the above quote. Of course, most [if not all] of the time the HGV drivers were not aware of what had happened way back in the lines of traffic behind them. True, they didn’t directly cause the aforementioned incidents but they were certainly a contributing factor to what had happened.

surely your copper friend can only guess the accidents was caused by trucks causing a concertina, since the trucks involved and any witness’s in front of the accident would’ve continued on their way in ignorance once again truckers getting blamed for everything

[marcustandy]

Mr B:

marcustandy:
One of his main examples of bad [HGV] driving was the original subject of this thread i.e. prolonged ‘overtaking’. He had personally attended a number of accidents/incidents that had been caused by the concertina effect of the long queues caused by the very kind of overtaking described by Governor in the above quote. Of course, most [if not all] of the time the HGV drivers were not aware of what had happened way back in the lines of traffic behind them. True, they didn’t directly cause the aforementioned incidents but they were certainly a contributing factor to what had happened.

Mr B:
surely your copper friend

Friend? Who said friend??!!

marcustandy:
there was a presentation by the areas Senior Examiner. His day job is a Traffic Cop, mainly on motorbikes,

Mr B:
can only guess the accidents was caused by trucks causing a concertina, since the trucks involved and any witness’s in front of the accident would’ve continued on their way in ignorance once again truckers getting blamed for everything

I’m guessing, having not been there, it would be something along the lines of {whilst taking statements etc};

“What happened?”

"Well Officer, I was driving along at 70mph when suddenly the cars in front of me started braking really hard as there were two lorries side by side going slowly. I know I should’ve left a bigger gap to the vehicle in front but we just didn’t expect the sudden drop in speed.’

“So, just to confirm, the heavy braking in front due to the overtaking lorries, combined with you driving too close to the vehicle in front caused the accident?”

Remembering that the copper had said that the overtaking by some HGV drivers has been a contributory, not the sole reason for those kind of incidents that he had attended.

[newmercman]

marcustandy:

Carryfast:
it seems that the PC b…s in the government have succeeded in brainwashing all of the British drivers

Not necessarily. This thread wasn’t about the right and wrong of speed limiters and if they should have ever been introduced. That’s a different discussion altogether.

The fact is, right here and now, we’re stuck with them and we can make them less of a PITA, more so for other road users, by realising the only option we have is to slow down to break the overtaking deadlock.

You both make valid points, Carryfast, you’re right, people put far too much emphasis on speed today, anyone going over the limit by a few miles an hour is a social outcast, it needs putting in perspective.

marcustandy, as usual I agree totally, as I’ve said before speed limiters have been around long enough that we should have worked out how to drive a vehicle so equipped with consideration to other road users, I used to (pre limiter) cruise along at 65mph, but speed was never my ultimate goal, safety & self preservation were number one, consideration to other road users was number two, I’ve never understood the ‘I must drive at maximum speed at every opportunity mob’ & I never will.

[bullitt]

newmercman:
… I’ve never understood the ‘I must drive at maximum speed at every opportunity mob’ & I never will.

Sorry Mark, remind us all once again how fast that american truck of yours runs at!!

newmercman:
,That doesn’t happen too often, the speedo on my old girl goes right around to ‘Made in Texas’

[newmercman]

bullitt:

newmercman:
… I’ve never understood the ‘I must drive at maximum speed at every opportunity mob’ & I never will.

Sorry Mark, remind us all once again how fast that american truck of yours runs at!!

newmercman:
,That doesn’t happen too often, the speedo on my old girl goes right around to ‘Made in Texas’

[carryfast]

newmercman:

bullitt:

newmercman:
… I’ve never understood the ‘I must drive at maximum speed at every opportunity mob’ & I never will.

Sorry Mark, remind us all once again how fast that american truck of yours runs at!!

newmercman:
,That doesn’t happen too often, the speedo on my old girl goes right around to ‘Made in Texas’

But occifer there’s a zb big difference between ‘every opportunity’ and ‘most of the time’ that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. And that would be a great answer when the State Trooper says do you know how fast you were going when he stops you and you say not sure but the speedo was definitely reading ‘made in Texas’ but then he lets you off with just a warning because you were overtaking something at the time in Texas on the I 40.

[greek]

War & Peace, come to mind reading this post!

[oatcake1967]

greek:
War & Peace, come to mind reading this post!

What far to long and needed a happier ending

[thehood]

Trev_H:
Maybe my approach is wrong but I always reason that if both are on limiters at some time the guy overtaking has been faster than me at some point as he has caught me up. By the same reasoning If I ease off whilst he’s passing at some point he’s going to pull away from me anyway so why prolong the inevitable and hold every road user up in the process.
If the guy passing you has caused the traffic behind him to bunch up you have just snookered yourself if for any reason you come up on something slower. At the end of the day it just needs consideration and common sense something sadly lacking today which in itself makes the job more stressful.

I agree with you there trev, if someone is catching me up he’s obviously got that bit more so when they pull out i just ease of a tad makes life alot easier and your not losing any time,

[simon]

Your sums seem a bit dodgy though Marcustandy

You need TWO truck lengths, plus a safety margin at each end of say a second which is about a truck length.

That seems to add up to knocking your CC back by 3kmh for at least a whole minute .

Personally I won’t ease off on a hill, unless I’m running light.
I’m not keen on easing off for a numpty who let it overrun on a hill, but misjudged it so badly they only get half way passed my trailer. Also, if it’s a hilly area they could be letting it overrun to get a flying start at a hill and only getting half way past my trailer in the full expectation of that happening. They then expect to loose a lot of speed on the climb, a lot more than me. They don’t expect, or even want me, to ease off.
I know I’ve done this.
If a truck pulls out to let me onto the motorway, I won’t accelerate up to full chat until they’ve passed me. That is unless they are a lot slower than me and they are barely past the rear of my trailer once I’ve joined. In that case I’ll keep the hammer down and pull away. I don’t see a good reason for me to slow down to let them pass, then have to pass them, to get up to my cruising speed. That just means trucks in the overtaking lane for twice as long.

[carryfast]

Simon:
Your sums seem a bit dodgy though Marcustandy

You need TWO truck lengths, plus a safety margin at each end of say a second which is about a truck length.

That seems to add up to knocking your CC back by 3kmh for at least a whole minute .

Personally I won’t ease off on a hill, unless I’m running light.
I’m not keen on easing off for a numpty who let it overrun on a hill, but misjudged it so badly they only get half way passed my trailer. Also, if it’s a hilly area they could be letting it overrun to get a flying start at a hill and only getting half way past my trailer in the full expectation of that happening. They then expect to loose a lot of speed on the climb, a lot more than me. They don’t expect, or even want me, to ease off.
I know I’ve done this.
If a truck pulls out to let me onto the motorway, I won’t accelerate up to full chat until they’ve passed me. That is unless they are a lot slower than me and they are barely past the rear of my trailer once I’ve joined. In that case I’ll keep the hammer down and pull away. I don’t see a good reason for me to slow down to let them pass, then have to pass them, to get up to my cruising speed. That just means trucks in the overtaking lane for twice as long.

Your sums don’t seem to be much better either .Around 7 maybe even 8 truck lenghths is what it ‘should’ take of running in lane 2 from pulling out into lane 2 to returning to lane 1 and that’s only if it’s one truck being overtaken.You can add 4 or more truck lengths to that figure for each additional truck in the line which you also might need to pass before you can safely return to lane 1.So you’re saying pull out into lane 2 when you’ve closed to within just one truck lenghth and then return to lane 1 when you’ve cleared the vehicle being overtaken by just one truck length which including the lenghth of the vehicle being overtaken makes only 3 lengths not the 2 + 2 which you’ve actually stated there and which would still not even be enough even if it was that 2+2 Maybe the ‘experts’ can now see why seperation distances are being compromised to make up for the drawbacks of limiters.