Carryfast:
100,000 mile per year
It was 80,000 miles per year for me - is that close enough?
If any driver or rider fails to recognise the RISK and/or fails to do something about that RISK then how can that be an ACCIDENT ?
ROG:
Carryfast:
100,000 mile per yearIt was 80,000 miles per year for me - is that close enough?
If any driver or rider fails to recognise the RISK and/or fails to do something about that RISK then how can that be an ACCIDENT ?
80,000 or 100,000 whatever and it was’nt exactly 100,000 in my case either it was just a close round figure.But correct me if I’m wrong Rog but you seem to have said elsewhere that you were’nt driving loaded class 1 wagons on a regular commercial basis over the years? and I’d be very surprised if that copper and those in government who make the laws have ever driven one at all.There’s no such thing as risk free transport and if it’s right that not removing all types of risk from the equation removes the right to call an accident an accident then all air crashes,train crashes and the loss of ships would not be classed as accidents.For example it’s more risky to drive a train at 125 mph than 40 mph and if something go’s wrong at that speed it’s obvious that the outcome will be far more severe than if it was running at 40 mph but the politicians and drivers seem happy enough to accept that risk for commercial advantage.But I’ve identified plenty of risks in the use of speed limiters and even more in continuously backing off in a (vain) attempt to circumvent the overtaking issues caused by those limiters and I did’nt see any decent answers to the points raised by you or that expert copper?.
All driving involves RISK - the trick is to reduce that risk as much as possible
Most of that reduction is down to the way a driver thinks.
Most professional large vehicle drivers are better than others at reducing the risks
All drivers have the capacity to improve but most choose not to
No driver is a perfect driver
The problem can be perception when it comes down to poor driving by drivers - get ten car drivers do something silly and many will not notice or if they do then it is a case of ‘just another one’ and easily forgotten but when a LGV driver does something silly then it sticks out like a sore thumb and is more ‘memorable’
1 - A driver has the capability of improvement but chooses not to do so.
2 - That driver gets into a situation where an incident takes place.
3 - They could have avoided that incident if they had done number 1
4 - Is that an ACCIDENT when it could have been avoided by the driver doing number 1 ■■?
Oxford English Dictionary:
accident
- noun 1 an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally. 2 an incident that happens by chance or without apparent cause. 3 chance.
– PHRASES accidents will happen in the best regulated families proverb however careful you try to be, it is inevitable that some unfortunate or unforeseen events will occur.
– ORIGIN from Latin accidere ‘to fall or happen’.
Rog:
1 - A driver has the capability of improvement but chooses not to do so.
2 - That driver gets into a situation where an incident takes place.
3 - They could have avoided that incident if they had done number 1
4 - Is that an ACCIDENT when it could have been avoided by the driver doing number 1 ■■?
Yep.
To make it not an accident, you’d have to change it to:
- Driver gets annoyed
- Driver goes and starts ramming cars off the road
arronls:
Oxford English Dictionary wrote:
accident
- noun 1 an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally. 2 an incident that happens by chance or without apparent cause. 3 chance.
– PHRASES accidents will happen in the best regulated families proverb however careful you try to be, it is inevitable that some unfortunate or unforeseen events will occur.
– ORIGIN from Latin accidere ‘to fall or happen’.
I would say that most road incidents have a cause and that cause is usually something the driver did or did not do but was capable of doing or not doing
ROG:
arronls:
Oxford English Dictionary wrote:
accident
- noun 1 an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally. 2 an incident that happens by chance or without apparent cause. 3 chance.
– PHRASES accidents will happen in the best regulated families proverb however careful you try to be, it is inevitable that some unfortunate or unforeseen events will occur.
– ORIGIN from Latin accidere ‘to fall or happen’.
I would say that most road incidents have a cause and that cause is usually something the driver did or did not do but was capable of doing or not doing
Seeing as we are all highlighting things 
If your driving 40mph down a straight,wide B road with clear visability and no other traffic on the road and a fox runs out from the bushes and u hit that fox, is that and incident or an accident?? How could that have been avoided??
FarnboroughBoy11:
If your driving 40mph down a straight,wide B road with clear visability and no other traffic on the road and a fox runs out from the bushes and u hit that fox, is that and incident or an accident?? How could that have been avoided??
ACCIDENT
If the driver HAD seen the fox a little earlier and done nothing then it would be an INCIDENT
INCIDENT
Steering on a truck suddenly feels funny whilst on a motorway but driver decides to go another 2 miles to the services but after 1 mile the tyre shreds onto the motorway and results in the death of a motorcyclist - INCIDENT as the driver had the option of doing something earlier
ACCIDENT
Steering on a truck suddenly feels funny whilst on a motorway so driver decides to stop on hard shoulder but before he does so the tyre shreds onto the motorway and results in the death of a motorcyclist- ACCIDENT as the driver could do nothing about it any earlier
ROG:
arronls:
Oxford English Dictionary wrote:
accident
- noun 1 an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally. 2 an incident that happens by chance or without apparent cause. 3 chance.
– PHRASES accidents will happen in the best regulated families proverb however careful you try to be, it is inevitable that some unfortunate or unforeseen events will occur.
– ORIGIN from Latin accidere ‘to fall or happen’.
I would say that most road incidents have a cause and that cause is usually something the driver did or did not do but was capable of doing or not doing
That’s another definition. It doesn’t have to fit EVERY definition for the word to fit. Take for example
Oxford English Dictionary:
monitor
- noun 1 a person or device that monitors something. 2 a television used to view a picture from a particular camera or a display from a computer. 3 a loudspeaker used by performers to hear what is being played or recorded. 4 a school pupil with disciplinary or other special duties. 5 (also monitor lizard) a large tropical lizard.
That doesn’t mean I have a large lizard or school pupil sat on my desk - it only has to fit one of those (2 btw 
) for the word to be the correct one.
ROG:
FarnboroughBoy11:
If your driving 40mph down a straight,wide B road with clear visability and no other traffic on the road and a fox runs out from the bushes and u hit that fox, is that and incident or an accident?? How could that have been avoided??ACCIDENT
How is that an accident by your definition? There is a cause - a fox ran out of a bush and under his wheels
arronls:
Oxford English Dictionary:
monitor
- noun 1 a person or device that monitors something. 2 a television used to view a picture from a particular camera or a display from a computer. 3 a loudspeaker used by performers to hear what is being played or recorded. 4 a school pupil with disciplinary or other special duties. 5 (also monitor lizard) a large tropical lizard.
That doesn’t mean I have a large lizard or school pupil sat on my desk - it only has to fit one of those (2 btw
I’m led to believe there are websites where you can have number 4 on number 2, you may have to give over your credit card number depending on the ‘special duties’. 
However if you did part with the CC details that would be an accident/incident waiting to happen.
Coffeeholic:
arronls:
Oxford English Dictionary:
monitor
- noun 1 a person or device that monitors something. 2 a television used to view a picture from a particular camera or a display from a computer. 3 a loudspeaker used by performers to hear what is being played or recorded. 4 a school pupil with disciplinary or other special duties. 5 (also monitor lizard) a large tropical lizard.
That doesn’t mean I have a large lizard or school pupil sat on my desk - it only has to fit one of those (2 btw
I’m led to believe there are websites where you can have number 4 on number 2, you may have to give over your credit card number depending on the ‘special duties’.
I know my desk wouldn’t take the weight, so not an accident
Governor!:
‘…Thanks to the two idiots … i sat behind … not one would admit … kept flashing … getting ■■■■■■ off by these idiots…’
Did it starve you?
Did it take away your bed?
Did it ■■■■ you?
Were your neighbours ready to kill you because of your five minute delay?
…and wondering why Tony & Gordon’s wish for us to be diverse (ie, a licence for many to be pillocks) has upset you so much.
ROG:
FarnboroughBoy11:
If your driving 40mph down a straight,wide B road with clear visability and no other traffic on the road and a fox runs out from the bushes and u hit that fox, is that and incident or an accident?? How could that have been avoided??ACCIDENT
If the driver HAD seen the fox a little earlier and done nothing then it would be an INCIDENT
INCIDENT
Steering on a truck suddenly feels funny whilst on a motorway but driver decides to go another 2 miles to the services but after 1 mile the tyre shreds onto the motorway and results in the death of a motorcyclist - INCIDENT as the driver had the option of doing something earlierACCIDENT
Steering on a truck suddenly feels funny whilst on a motorway so driver decides to stop on hard shoulder but before he does so the tyre shreds onto the motorway and results in the death of a motorcyclist- ACCIDENT as the driver could do nothing about it any earlier
All of the examples depend on knowing all of the relevant circumstances. Take the shredding tyre example; did the driver check the tyre pressures (not just kick them) as part of his daily walk-round? If not, there is a contributory factor i.e. not an accident as there is blame to be apportioned.
The fox (or more concerningly a similar scenario that would involve a child) incident; did the fox/child cross in front of the truck when it was physically impossible (too late) to stop)? Was the driver driving at a speed whereby he could stop quickly and safely (on his side of the road) in the even of an unexpected incident i.e. expect the unexpected? If, by driving at the correct speed for the conditions, the driver could’ve stopped, but in this case didn’t as he was too fast, then it isn’t an accident as there is again blame to be apportioned.
Bringing it back to where this discussion started, if one/both of the trucks never allowed themselves to get onto the ‘side by side for 10 miles’ situation, then, even if the accident still happened, they would not be even slightly/partly to blame. Whilst ever they are playing the ‘stubborn’ game there is a real risk that there actions will contribute to an accident in the queues behind them. Blaming a politician for introducing speed limiters while playing the ‘stubborn’ game doesn’t take away that the so-called professional driver has contributed the accident in the following traffic.
marcustandy:
not an accident as there is blame to be apportioned.
it isn’t an accident as there is again blame to be apportioned.
Oxford English Dictionary:
accident
- noun 1 an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally. 2 an incident that happens by chance or without apparent cause. 3 chance.
Where does blame come in to it?
As there appears to be a lot of confusion and disagreement with accident and incident could we not just go with -
Excrement Occurs.
Seems to cover all eventualities.
Marcustandy/Rog -
What your saying is that there is a contributing factor to every accident where blame can be apportioned. It just depends how far down the line you want to go with it.
Tyre shredding scenario - Driver checked his tyres correctly, good tread, preasure spot on. But he feels the steering go funny when hes on the motorway and while he acts quickly as he is moving over to the hard shoulder the tyre shreds and kills a motorcyclist. Driver has done all he could do to prevent this accident but then you still look further back down the line for someone to blame or a cause. Therefor its not an accident its an incident 
There is a motorcycle tailgating me as we approach a set of stale green traffic lights, i slow to allow for the change of the lights but the lights stay green untill im right on top of them which they then change to amber, i go through on amber whilst the tailgating motorcycle brakes hard and stops at the amber light which has now turned red… we both go our sepperate ways on our sepperate journeys in our sepperate lives, but 20 minutes later the motorcylcles journey takes him onto a motorway where low and behold there is that truck with the shredding tyre, as the truck is pulling onto the hard shoulder the tyre shreds and kills the motorcyclist. BUT wait!!! It cant be an accident because if i had never slowed down for that stale green light the motorcyclist would have made it through the lights aswell and he would be approxamatly 1 minute ahead of the truck before its tyre shred.
Verdict - Incident because blame can be apportioned to me.
Naaaa i dont buy it sorry.
Coffeeholic:
As there appears to be a lot of confusion and disagreement with accident and incident could we not just go with -Excrement Occurs.
Seems to cover all eventualities.
FarnboroughBoy11:
Coffeeholic:
As there appears to be a lot of confusion and disagreement with accident and incident could we not just go with -Excrement Occurs.
Seems to cover all eventualities.
Such as the copper and the politician who both decided that they’d like a change of career so decided to drive trucks instead and Rog trained them how to do it in a totally risk free way.So just imagine it’s mid 1980’s they both work for the same firm and their two wagons are the only ones fitted with a zb speed limiter set at 85 kmh but they always slow down whenever anyone overtakes them on the M1 at 70 mph
welshboyinspain:
Trev_H:
Maybe my approach is wrong but I always reason that if both are on limiters at some time the guy overtaking has been faster than me at some point as he has caught me up. By the same reasoning If I ease off whilst he’s passing at some point he’s going to pull away from me anyway so why prolong the inevitable and hold every road user up in the process.
If the guy passing you has caused the traffic behind him to bunch up you have just snookered yourself if for any reason you come up on something slower. At the end of the day it just needs consideration and common sense something sadly lacking today which in itself makes the job more stressful.here speaks a voice of reason, obviously the truck trying to overtake is slightly quicker otherwise he would never have caught up in the first place so he should be able to pass albeit slowly but the vehicle on the inside could just ease off for 30 seconds to assist and all the car drivers wouldn’t tar us all with the same brush
Steve-o:
at the end of the day I don’t give a [zb] about what the rule book says when it comes to this example. The driver doing the overtake knew fine well he was being a ■■■■. He should of known it was going to be impossible to get past, so why [zb] try? Sorry, MRS Driver done exactly what I and many others would have done.how is the overtaker being a ■■■■? this attitude is why we all get a bad name for “elephant racing” from car drivers and truck drivers no longer have respect from Joe Public. what is the cost of 30 seconds of backing off to let him pass, maybe hurts your pride too much
30 seconds is not alot, however how many times a day do you think a driver being overtaken (or who has someone attempting to overtake)
should slow down. i will not slow down if the numpty trying to overtake got alongside by letting his vehicle run over on a downhill
yorkshireborn:
30 seconds is not alot, however how many times a day do you think a driver being overtaken (or who has someone attempting to overtake)
should slow down. i will not slow down if the numpty trying to overtake got alongside by letting his vehicle run over on a downhill
if you read the OP it says was from the A10 to the A1 uphill and downhill so if the “numpty” did let it run over then he would have passed the other truck on the first downhill stretch but seeing as he was out in the middle for a while it seems they were either both letting their trucks run over or both sticking to the limiter and brakes?
surely if the guy in the middle is daft enough to let it go faster downhill you’re not going to speed up as well