[quote=“Coffeeholic” [/quote]
Wheel Nut:
Coffee has written the regulations down in a very simple way.
Coffeeholic:
Very simple but accurate and if a driver followed them they would be very unlikely to ever get an infringement.
How about doing similar for the RT(WTD)R 
And then posting both in one post as a sticky
Wheel Nut:
Forget thinking of it as the 15 hour day and 13 hour days. Think about what you actually work, not sit in a waiting room or in the passenger seat while tipping.For instance the rep selling fire extinguishers leaves home at 6 am to get to his first appointment at 9 and leaves his last client at 6 pm and then drives back home for 2 hours. He didn’t sell much today and is paid on commission
The bloke working on the building site opposite me, on his feet from 07.30 until 16.30 carrying bricks and climbing scaffolding in the rain and cold. He gets 15mins mugga at 10am and 30mins lunch.
The schoolteacher who gets up at 6.30 to get herself and the kids ready for school, drops them off and then has to sit in front of unruly kids all day, then collect her own kids do tea and mark homework.
To me, the last three jobs are hard work, our job is spent alone sat on our arse listening to the radio for 9 hours a day
Rep selling fire extinguishers is of no interest to me…it’s a totally different job! The bloke on the building site works 9 hours and knows it…and he’s at home. As for the schoolteacher 
don’t even go there, they have far more holidays than us and chose that job…just like I did.
I’m not always sat at rdc’s, which I don’t think are good places to relax in but the general opiniion of a lorry driver is long hours - regularly every day every week. Not just the odd extra extinguisher here or extra marking there - it’s generally accepted and in my opinion needs looking at.
I’ve stopped at 19:00 tonight and expected to start at 05:00 - 10 hours rest, not eaten yet cus I’m still playing on this thing…off for KFC
#Al si thi
Harry Monk:
Rick B:
I personally think the recognised 15 hour day needs looking at as even the 13 hours is more than any other industry anyway. I can’t cope with 9 hours rest either…10 is my minimum because by the time I’ve relaxed, chilled and eaten I need a good sleep.These are the two main problems with the current regulations in my opinion too. I personally would like to see the minimum rest being increased to 10 hours and the maximum working day reduced to 13 hours, which is still five hours more than sane people work.
you have the choice to do that under the current regulations, don’t mess it up for those of us who can cope with 9 hours rest and need longer days to get specialised jobs done
Denis F:
Harry Monk:
Rick B:
I personally think the recognised 15 hour day needs looking at as even the 13 hours is more than any other industry anyway. I can’t cope with 9 hours rest either…10 is my minimum because by the time I’ve relaxed, chilled and eaten I need a good sleep.These are the two main problems with the current regulations in my opinion too. I personally would like to see the minimum rest being increased to 10 hours and the maximum working day reduced to 13 hours, which is still five hours more than sane people work.
you have the choice to do that under the current regulations, don’t mess it up for those of us who can cope with 9 hours rest and need longer days to get specialised jobs done
Finish the job next day, what’s wrong with that?
44 Tonne Ton:
Denis F:
Harry Monk:
Rick B:
I personally think the recognised 15 hour day needs looking at as even the 13 hours is more than any other industry anyway. I can’t cope with 9 hours rest either…10 is my minimum because by the time I’ve relaxed, chilled and eaten I need a good sleep.These are the two main problems with the current regulations in my opinion too. I personally would like to see the minimum rest being increased to 10 hours and the maximum working day reduced to 13 hours, which is still five hours more than sane people work.
you have the choice to do that under the current regulations, don’t mess it up for those of us who can cope with 9 hours rest and need longer days to get specialised jobs done
Finish the job next day, what’s wrong with that?
Not always an easy option with livestock haulage, which is Denis’s speciality
being that it is the year 2010 why not. 10 hours from book on to book off with 45 minutes rest . min 15 minutes at one time taken when and how you like no more than 5 shifts in any one week. I think it is still to long but it is a start
Coffeeholic:
44 Tonne Ton:
Denis F:
Harry Monk:
Rick B:
I personally think the recognised 15 hour day needs looking at as even the 13 hours is more than any other industry anyway. I can’t cope with 9 hours rest either…10 is my minimum because by the time I’ve relaxed, chilled and eaten I need a good sleep.These are the two main problems with the current regulations in my opinion too. I personally would like to see the minimum rest being increased to 10 hours and the maximum working day reduced to 13 hours, which is still five hours more than sane people work.
you have the choice to do that under the current regulations, don’t mess it up for those of us who can cope with 9 hours rest and need longer days to get specialised jobs done
Finish the job next day, what’s wrong with that?
Not always an easy option with livestock haulage, which is Denis’s speciality
As I said earlier you can’t keep everyone happy! You touched on one of the biggest problems earlier which is jargon. I think this is the biggest barrier to people getting to grips with legislation that affects them. Until a driver can read and understand the rules himself, rather than relying on others to educate him, there is always going to be the possibility of infringements, hardly a fair situation in my opinion. Personally I’d like to see drivers being tested on this before getting their licences and have it done at the test centres by DVLA examiners.
fuse:
being that it is the year 2010 why not. 10 hours from book on to book off with 45 minutes rest . min 15 minutes at one time taken when and how you like no more than 5 shifts in any one week. I think it is still to long but it is a start
Lot of drivers going to be doing a lot more nights out if that was introduced. One delay getting loaded or unloaded and a half decent traffic jam and you would be struggling to get back to the yard.
Take break when you like? So you could do 9 hours then take a break, doesn’t sound too safe.
Apart from the taking break when you like thing you can do your suggestion now under the current rules.
44 Tonne Ton:
As I said earlier you can’t keep everyone happy!
Actually it’s looking more and more like you can get pretty close to it. Almost all the suggestions in this thread can already be done within the confines of the current legislation so it seems almost everyone can work/drive the number of hours they wish and therefore almost everyone is happy. Sorted. 
Distance driver hours are not fair to local drivers who are home every night, eg being local you may drive back and forth to a quarry you could have 15s through out the day but now I find myself twiddling my thumbs for half an hour late in afternoon when I COULD BE OFF HOME. also construction sites start about 7.30 8.00 am finnish about 4 4,30 time early on fridays so if you work in constuction your regular weekly rest is 60 or 65 hours and daily rest avrage 13 when I say local 60 miles or so from base
Coffeeholic:
44 Tonne Ton:
As I said earlier you can’t keep everyone happy!Actually it’s looking more and more like you can get pretty close to it. Almost all the suggestions in this thread can already be done within the confines of the current legislation so it seems almost everyone can work/drive the number of hours they wish and therefore almost everyone is happy. Sorted.
Your being deliberately obtuse but that’s to be expected from an escapee from Saughton!
K.I.S.S. was the original idea of this thread!
Keep It Simple Stupid!
Many are advocating less work hours (clock on to clock off) but until the pay is increased then that will probably be a non starter for most.
Yes cofee you can do what I said but you could not do a fifteen hour spread it would be 10 and that is you lot. The bad change for me came when a 45 had to have at least 30 mins for your second part of the 45. I like 30 mins about 8.30 then 15s through out the day, this does not sound a big deal but I find myself twiddling my thumbs late afternoon when I could be home
44 Tonne Ton:
Coffeeholic:
44 Tonne Ton:
As I said earlier you can’t keep everyone happy!Actually it’s looking more and more like you can get pretty close to it. Almost all the suggestions in this thread can already be done within the confines of the current legislation so it seems almost everyone can work/drive the number of hours they wish and therefore almost everyone is happy. Sorted.
Your being deliberately obtuse…
Not really, I was pointing out that the current rules are simple and flexible enough were people can pretty much use them to work as much as they feel is right for them.
fuse:
Yes cofee you can do what I said but you could not do a fifteen hour spread it would be 10 and that is you lot. The bad change for me came when a 45 had to have at least 30 mins for your second part of the 45. I like 30 mins about 8.30 then 15s through out the day, this does not sound a big deal but I find myself twiddling my thumbs late afternoon when I could be home
So if you are having a break about 08:30 and are still working late afternoon, when you are having to twiddle your thumbs for another break instead of heading home, it sounds like your 10 hour suggestion will stop you getting home at all instead of 15 minutes later than you wanted.
i have just come up with the best answer to the Simplified tacho rules,
you work till you finishing working then go to sleep then start all over, when the weekend comes you go to the pub and spend all your hard earned money( or your wife spends it for you)
If I take my break early it means the 430 contin drive comes up 3 pm time when a couple of 15s would be better.difficult to explain but I liked it as it was
Coffeeholic:
44 Tonne Ton:
Coffeeholic:
44 Tonne Ton:
As I said earlier you can’t keep everyone happy!Actually it’s looking more and more like you can get pretty close to it. Almost all the suggestions in this thread can already be done within the confines of the current legislation so it seems almost everyone can work/drive the number of hours they wish and therefore almost everyone is happy. Sorted.
Your being deliberately obtuse…
Not really, I was pointing out that the current rules are simple and flexible enough were people can pretty much use them to work as much as they feel is right for them.
The OP asked about making the rules simpler. Someone who doesn’t understand the rules can’t really use them to their best advantage. I thought my suggestion offered a lot of flexibility. You could drive for up to 12 hours if you needed. How many firms would find that useful? As for simplicity you finish 13 hours after you start, maximum. Just take a one hour break within 6.5 hours. Nothing else to worry about. No weekly or fortnightly limits. And an end to 15 hour days which is long overdue. Isn’t 13 enough?
44 Tonne Ton:
I thought my suggestion offered a lot of flexibility. You could drive for up to 12 hours if you needed. How many firms would find that useful? As for simplicity you finish 13 hours after you start, maximum. Just take a one hour break within 6.5 hours. Nothing else to worry about. No weekly or fortnightly limits. And an end to 15 hour days which is long overdue. Isn’t 13 enough?
More hours to drive, potentially 72 in a week and 144 in a fortnight, or even more as you haven’t mentioned weekly rest and you say no weekly or fortnightly limits. Possible to work almost 6.5 hours before a break. That seems less safe than the current rules yet you are worried about a 15 hour day? A 15 hour day with 9 or 10 hours driving sounds better than a 13 hour day with 12 hours driving to me.
Coffeeholic:
44 Tonne Ton:
I thought my suggestion offered a lot of flexibility. You could drive for up to 12 hours if you needed. How many firms would find that useful? As for simplicity you finish 13 hours after you start, maximum. Just take a one hour break within 6.5 hours. Nothing else to worry about. No weekly or fortnightly limits. And an end to 15 hour days which is long overdue. Isn’t 13 enough?More hours to drive, potentially 72 in a week and 144 in a fortnight, or even more as you haven’t mentioned weekly rest and you say no weekly or fortnightly limits. Possible to work almost 6.5 hours before a break. That seems less safe than the current rules yet you are worried about a 15 hour day? A 15 hour day with 9 or 10 hours driving sounds better than a 13 hour day with 12 hours driving to me.
I did say earlier to have a 24 every week for day men 48 for nights. Working 13 hours is more tiring than 15■■? You wouldn’t need to keep track of weekly or fortnightly driving hours, just start fresh each day and observe the weekly rest requirements I’ve suggested. You can work almost 6.5 hours now before having a break. No need to record driving /other work just total daily duty. As for safety when a driver feels tired it is his responsibility to resolve that problem now so nothing changes. Make it 2 hours of breaks for day men too if you want. With the breaks I’ve suggested I feel it’s easier for a driver to keep himself alert by using longer breaks in stead of silly 15’s that only allow you to walk to the toilet and back again. The 24 could be an opt out at drivers discretion.