Simplified tacho rules

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
81

im with dennis,i dont want the 9 hr option to change,i like a set start tim all week or as near as i can
i.e mon -1 am -4 p.m
9hr off
tues-1 a.m-4pm
9hr off
wed -1 am-4pm
suits me,im in a routine of waking at midnight.
but say 10hrs min
i.e mon 1 a.m- 4pm
10 hrs off
tues 2am-5pm
10hrs off
wed 3am-6 pm
id be all over the shop,waking up at midnight ,not having to go till 2 a.m,which is why lots of us have set start times,told the other week by boss to have 11 off , said no 9 suits me better,as alot of ours do,if 10 suits you have 10, if you want 11 have 11, but leave the ones who want 9 as it suits them to have 9.

the only one id like changed is the driving, 6 hr rule, have they ever tried to get parked on a multi drop in the middle of a city centre, its a nightmare, often have to drve to outskirts to get parked up when next drops 5 mins away,cant always get parked at customers or surrounding roads, dont know how you would work it but seems stupid to drive to outskirts of city centre to get parked up

82

ady1:
im with dennis,i dont want the 9 hr option to change,

That’s the key word for the DRIVER

83

ady1:
im with dennis,i dont want the 9 hr option to change,i like a set start tim all week or as near as i can
i.e mon -1 am -4 p.m
9hr off
tues-1 a.m-4pm
9hr off
wed -1 am-4pm
suits me,im in a routine of waking at midnight.
but say 10hrs min
i.e mon 1 a.m- 4pm
10 hrs off
tues 2am-5pm
10hrs off
wed 3am-6 pm
id be all over the shop,waking up at midnight ,not having to go till 2 a.m,which is why lots of us have set start times,told the other week by boss to have 11 off , said no 9 suits me better,as alot of ours do,if 10 suits you have 10, if you want 11 have 11, but leave the ones who want 9 as it suits them to have 9.

the only one id like changed is the driving, 6 hr rule, have they ever tried to get parked on a multi drop in the middle of a city centre, its a nightmare, often have to drve to outskirts to get parked up when next drops 5 mins away,cant always get parked at customers or surrounding roads, dont know how you would work it but seems stupid to drive to outskirts of city centre to get parked up

Doing 15/9 is fine if your doing nights out or live on the doorstep but the rest of us have travelling to do that cuts into the day? Currently I’m spending 2-3 hours travelling a day so doing a 15 might be legal but hardly wise. I’ve no doubt some people are finding themselves in the position of doing a 15 with travel on top. That’s why I’d like to see a minimum 11 off each day. Your point about finding a place to take a legally required break is a good one and should be addressed by the relevant authorities but I won’t hold my breath on that!

84

44 Tonne Ton:

Coffeeholic:

44 Tonne Ton:
I thought my suggestion offered a lot of flexibility. You could drive for up to 12 hours if you needed. How many firms would find that useful? As for simplicity you finish 13 hours after you start, maximum. Just take a one hour break within 6.5 hours. Nothing else to worry about. No weekly or fortnightly limits. And an end to 15 hour days which is long overdue. Isn’t 13 enough?

More hours to drive, potentially 72 in a week and 144 in a fortnight, or even more as you haven’t mentioned weekly rest and you say no weekly or fortnightly limits. Possible to work almost 6.5 hours before a break. That seems less safe than the current rules yet you are worried about a 15 hour day? A 15 hour day with 9 or 10 hours driving sounds better than a 13 hour day with 12 hours driving to me.

I did say earlier to have a 24 every week for day men 48 for nights. Working 13 hours is more tiring than 15■■? You wouldn’t need to keep track of weekly or fortnightly driving hours, just start fresh each day and observe the weekly rest requirements I’ve suggested. You can work almost 6.5 hours now before having a break. No need to record driving /other work just total daily duty. As for safety when a driver feels tired it is his responsibility to resolve that problem now so nothing changes.

Like you say you can work almost 6 hours now without a break but your version could have a driver driving 6.5 hours before a break, 2 hours more than currently and also doing a hell of a lot more driving in two weeks, around 60 hours more. It’s always the drivers responsibility regarding tiredness but that doesn’t mean they do so and people will push on to the full 6.5 hours.

44 Tonne Ton:
Make it 2 hours of breaks for day men too if you want. With the breaks I’ve suggested I feel it’s easier for a driver to keep himself alert by using longer breaks in stead of silly 15’s that only allow you to walk to the toilet and back again. The 24 could be an opt out at drivers discretion.

So different rules depending what time of day you drive and opt outs? Not really keeping with the simple aspect is it?

This coming week I will start my first shift on Sunday at 07:00 so that will make me a day driver under your regs.I will get back early Friday but I will start that last shift in the middle of the night so do I change rules partway through the week or what?

You don’t have to take 15 minute breaks under the current rules, you can take longer.

85

Coffeeholic:

44 Tonne Ton:

Coffeeholic:

44 Tonne Ton:
I thought my suggestion offered a lot of flexibility. You could drive for up to 12 hours if you needed. How many firms would find that useful? As for simplicity you finish 13 hours after you start, maximum. Just take a one hour break within 6.5 hours. Nothing else to worry about. No weekly or fortnightly limits. And an end to 15 hour days which is long overdue. Isn’t 13 enough?

More hours to drive, potentially 72 in a week and 144 in a fortnight, or even more as you haven’t mentioned weekly rest and you say no weekly or fortnightly limits. Possible to work almost 6.5 hours before a break. That seems less safe than the current rules yet you are worried about a 15 hour day? A 15 hour day with 9 or 10 hours driving sounds better than a 13 hour day with 12 hours driving to me.

I did say earlier to have a 24 every week for day men 48 for nights. Working 13 hours is more tiring than 15■■? You wouldn’t need to keep track of weekly or fortnightly driving hours, just start fresh each day and observe the weekly rest requirements I’ve suggested. You can work almost 6.5 hours now before having a break. No need to record driving /other work just total daily duty. As for safety when a driver feels tired it is his responsibility to resolve that problem now so nothing changes.

Like you say you can work almost 6 hours now without a break but your version could have a driver driving 6.5 hours before a break, 2 hours more than currently and also doing a hell of a lot more driving in two weeks, around 60 hours more. It’s always the drivers responsibility regarding tiredness but that doesn’t mean they do so and people will push on to the full 6.5 hours.

44 Tonne Ton:
Make it 2 hours of breaks for day men too if you want. With the breaks I’ve suggested I feel it’s easier for a driver to keep himself alert by using longer breaks in stead of silly 15’s that only allow you to walk to the toilet and back again. The 24 could be an opt out at drivers discretion.

So different rules depending what time of day you drive and opt outs? Not really keeping with the simple aspect is it?

This coming week I will start my first shift on Sunday at 07:00 so that will make me a day driver under your regs.I will get back early Friday but I will start that last shift in the middle of the night so do I change rules partway through the week or what?

You don’t have to take 15 minute breaks under the current rules, you can take longer.

There’s different rules now for days and nights! So you COULD work half an hour longer half an hour longer before taking a break, big deal! Whether it’s other work or driving you shouldn’t be knackered 6 hours into your shift if you have had your proper rest. If you haven’t had your proper rest then you should ask yourself if you’re fit to drive. Whatever time you start on the day dictates your hours of work that day and that day only to keep it simple. As for you starting the week at 0700 and then the middle of the night at the end of the week is that choice on your part or poor planning by whoever? For years H & S campaigners and unions have been trying to persuade companies to organise work schedules so that drivers start their day at approximately the same time each day so that drivers can get proper rest as it’s known that wide variation in start times is detrimental to drivers and therefore safety. I’m making suggestions as to how this can be simplified for more drivers. I’m still waiting for your suggestions!

86

44 Tonne Ton:

Coffeeholic:

44 Tonne Ton:

Coffeeholic:

44 Tonne Ton:
I thought my suggestion offered a lot of flexibility. You could drive for up to 12 hours if you needed. How many firms would find that useful? As for simplicity you finish 13 hours after you start, maximum. Just take a one hour break within 6.5 hours. Nothing else to worry about. No weekly or fortnightly limits. And an end to 15 hour days which is long overdue. Isn’t 13 enough?

More hours to drive, potentially 72 in a week and 144 in a fortnight, or even more as you haven’t mentioned weekly rest and you say no weekly or fortnightly limits. Possible to work almost 6.5 hours before a break. That seems less safe than the current rules yet you are worried about a 15 hour day? A 15 hour day with 9 or 10 hours driving sounds better than a 13 hour day with 12 hours driving to me.

I did say earlier to have a 24 every week for day men 48 for nights. Working 13 hours is more tiring than 15■■? You wouldn’t need to keep track of weekly or fortnightly driving hours, just start fresh each day and observe the weekly rest requirements I’ve suggested. You can work almost 6.5 hours now before having a break. No need to record driving /other work just total daily duty. As for safety when a driver feels tired it is his responsibility to resolve that problem now so nothing changes.

Like you say you can work almost 6 hours now without a break but your version could have a driver driving 6.5 hours before a break, 2 hours more than currently and also doing a hell of a lot more driving in two weeks, around 60 hours more. It’s always the drivers responsibility regarding tiredness but that doesn’t mean they do so and people will push on to the full 6.5 hours.

44 Tonne Ton:
Make it 2 hours of breaks for day men too if you want. With the breaks I’ve suggested I feel it’s easier for a driver to keep himself alert by using longer breaks in stead of silly 15’s that only allow you to walk to the toilet and back again. The 24 could be an opt out at drivers discretion.

So different rules depending what time of day you drive and opt outs? Not really keeping with the simple aspect is it?

This coming week I will start my first shift on Sunday at 07:00 so that will make me a day driver under your regs.I will get back early Friday but I will start that last shift in the middle of the night so do I change rules partway through the week or what?

You don’t have to take 15 minute breaks under the current rules, you can take longer.

There’s different rules now for days and nights! So you COULD work half an hour longer half an hour longer before taking a break, big deal! Whether it’s other work or driving you shouldn’t be knackered 6 hours into your shift if you have had your proper rest. If you haven’t had your proper rest then you should ask yourself if you’re fit to drive. Whatever time you start on the day dictates your hours of work that day and that day only to keep it simple. As for you starting the week at 0700 and then the middle of the night at the end of the week is that choice on your part or poor planning by whoever? For years H & S campaigners and unions have been trying to persuade companies to organise work schedules so that drivers start their day at approximately the same time each day so that drivers can get proper rest as it’s known that wide variation in start times is detrimental to drivers and therefore safety. I’m making suggestions as to how this can be simplified for more drivers. I’m still waiting for your suggestions!

Take it from me, if you could drive 12 hours in a 13 hour spreadover then the company would expect it, if they sent you out and it took 6 hours to get there, they would not be so happy if you stopped for an hour on the way.

The current fairly simple drivers hours regulations protect the driver and other road users, like a speed limit, it is the maximum not a target.

No one on this post has come up with anything any simpler to follow

87

44 Tonne Ton:
There’s different rules now for days and nights!

Not for the tacho rules, and you can opt out of the WTD night limits.

44 Tonne Ton:
So you COULD work half an hour longer half an hour longer before taking a break, big deal! Whether it’s other work or driving you shouldn’t be knackered 6 hours into your shift if you have had your proper rest. If you haven’t had your proper rest then you should ask yourself if you’re fit to drive.

Driving requires far more concentration and alertness than other work, it’s not about being tired 6 hours into a shift it’s about maintaining that level of concentraion for hour after hour without a break. Most car drivers struggle to go much beyond 2 hours, hence all the advice to take a break every 2 hours you see from various quarters. We can currently go to 4.5 hours, 6.5 hours is really pushing it.

44 Tonne Ton:
Whatever time you start on the day dictates your hours of work that day and that day only to keep it simple.

Earlier you mention people with literacy and numeracy problems finding the current regulations difficult, you think they would handle that system any better? I showed earlier how the current regulations could be explained, to a level that if followed would be very unlikely to lead to infringements, in 6 sentences. I fail to see how that can be regarded as complicated. It goes back to what i said earlier, driver’s are led to believe the regulations are complicated and once they have decided that they will never realise or accept how simple they actually are.

44 Tonne Ton:
As for you starting the week at 0700 and then the middle of the night at the end of the week is that choice on your part or poor planning by whoever?

That’s my choice, using the simple rules we already have to work the way I like to, saving me time in waiting for trains, driving home when the roads are quiet and it’s easy going so I have to put very little effort in, and getting me extra time at home.

44 Tonne Ton:
For years H & S campaigners and unions have been trying to persuade companies to organise work schedules so that drivers start their day at approximately the same time each day so that drivers can get proper rest as it’s known that wide variation in start times is detrimental to drivers and therefore safety.

You are trying to come up with a rigid set of rules to follow, a one size fits all approach, but everybody is different. For the last 30 odd years I have averaged 4 - 5 hours sleep a night, I don’t need any more than that, in fact I would find it difficult to sleep more than that. Other people need more than that and the current regulations work well for both.

Just because we can do a shift of 15 hours doesn’t mean you are necessarily physically working that many hours. For example, I have a week sometimes where I work 6 days and each of those days the shift is around the 14 hour mark but driving and other work accounts for 7 - 7.5 hours, the rest of the time is spent getting paid for doing nothing.

88

14 hour maximum working day. 10 hours off every night. that’s 1 hour to wind down, 8 hours kip, and one hour to freshen up. only for drivers who work away from home.
drivers who go home/hotel/b&b every night/day. then they will only be allowed to work a 12 hour day. this is because of travelling time to and from work.
no driving time limits, apart from 4.5 hours driving, followed by a 45minute break, with no splitting of breaks.
36 hours rest after every sixth day. this may be split to 48 hours one week and 24 hours, the next week. but you will not be allowed to take a 24 hour rest after taking a 36.

89

limeyphil:
14 hour maximum working day. 10 hours off every night. that’s 1 hour to wind down, 8 hours kip, and one hour to freshen up. only for drivers who work away from home.
drivers who go home/hotel/b&b every night/day. then they will only be allowed to work a 12 hour day. this is because of travelling time to and from work.
no driving time limits, apart from 4.5 hours driving, followed by a 45minute break, with no splitting of breaks.
36 hours rest after every sixth day. this may be split to 48 hours one week and 24 hours, the next week. but you will not be allowed to take a 24 hour rest after taking a 36.

And that’s more simple than the current rules how? :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: It’s simple enough but no more so than what we already have. Not as safe as we already have though with less rest and more driving.

90

Coffeeholic:

limeyphil:
14 hour maximum working day. 10 hours off every night. that’s 1 hour to wind down, 8 hours kip, and one hour to freshen up. only for drivers who work away from home.
drivers who go home/hotel/b&b every night/day. then they will only be allowed to work a 12 hour day. this is because of travelling time to and from work.
no driving time limits, apart from 4.5 hours driving, followed by a 45minute break, with no splitting of breaks.
36 hours rest after every sixth day. this may be split to 48 hours one week and 24 hours, the next week. but you will not be allowed to take a 24 hour rest after taking a 36.

And that’s more simple than the current rules how? :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: It’s simple enough but no more so than what we already have. Not as safe as we already have though with less rest and more driving.

i think we should have no rules, apart from “don’t drive while tired”. but the rule makers seem to like rules, so i think my idea is very flexible.

91

limeyphil:
i think we should have no rules, apart from “don’t drive while tired”. but the rule makers seem to like rules, so i think my idea is very flexible.

but if you have no rules, how will you be able to say your tied, you can’t say it to the boss, cos as you know there say there’s nothing in the regs for you take a rest is there , sorry what reg there none , so you work till you kill yourself or others, and also most employers would work you to death and for what 3 pounds an hour and no benefits, you be the first one at no 10 demanding there be regs for HGV drivers

92

delboytwo:

limeyphil:
i think we should have no rules, apart from “don’t drive while tired”. but the rule makers seem to like rules, so i think my idea is very flexible.

but if you have no rules, how will you be able to say your tied, you can’t say it to the boss, cos as you know there say there’s nothing in the regs for you take a rest is there , sorry what reg there none , so you work till you kill yourself or others, and also most employers would work you to death and for what 3 pounds an hour and no benefits, you be the first one at no 10 demanding there be regs for HGV drivers

we used to run bent as [zb], and we were well paid for it. however, if you wanted to get your head down, then that’s what you did. no boss wants his truck in a ditch. some drivers just say “yes boss, no problem boss”. the boss dosn’t know if you’re tired, you have to tell him. they don’t think any worse of you.

93

■■? Most people dont want to work a 15 hour day & before anyone cries

but it may help you get home

most employers in my experience want you to work 15hours for them not YOU :smiling_imp: & anyone who thinks 9 hours rest is OK must be dumb/stupid :angry: :angry: Its about time the people who make these rules used some common sense & treated drivers like human beings . You’d never get away with it in any other industry .But then drivers have been and always will be- there own worst enemy :unamused: :unamused:

94

i think anyone who dosn’t want to, or is incapable of working long hours, should be deported to uzbekistan.

95

limeyphil:
i think anyone who dosn’t want to, or is incapable of working long hours, should be deported to uzbekistan.

Says it all really :unamused: :blush: :blush:

96

Mike-C:

mike68:
Nope leave it as it is, it’s not perfect but it works fairly well, as drivers we do too many hours anyway, but we do a lot less than other countries where there is no legislation. Just sit down go through it and it really is quite simple and the digi card makes easier too (Still miss winding it on nine hours for a night out with the lads though)

Which countries have no legislation Mike?

the Isle of Man.

97

boris:
snip/ . . . . . . & anyone who thinks 9 hours rest is OK must be dumb/stupid :angry: :angry:

How so, boris ?

98

dambuster:

boris:
snip/ . . . . . . & anyone who thinks 9 hours rest is OK must be dumb/stupid :angry: :angry:

How so, boris ?

At base it may be too short for many but when tramping it’s probably about right

99

I’m happy with the hours as they are with two exceptions.

I’d like to see the daily rest periods allowed to be broken up into minimum breaks of 15 minutes as they used to be. Having to have the second break as 30 minutes often causes me to lose a load.

As an owner driver, I also regularly lose the chance to work a saturday or sunday shift because I have to have a 45 hour weekend break. My daily breaks are regularly 12 hours plus, sometimes as many as 15 hours off & sometimes my weekly rest is only reduced by an hour or so yet my excessive daily rest periods aren’t taken into account to pay this reduction back causing me to have to turn down work the following wekend.

BB