Big Jon’s dad:
dave_lol66:
Big Jon’s dad:
dave_lol66:
What I do understand is that you really struggle to grasp the idea that if the crap companies dont exist then the crap companies improve or better companies come along to take their place because the same number of trucks and drivers are still required. My point about bin men and brain surgeons was used to try and help you but obviously had no effect, the same number of workers are still required no matter what the industry so it would have no effect on immigration only the jobs and industry requiring TFW so its a win win situation.
I understand perfectly that a certain number of drivers is needed regardless of where they come from. If we suddenly made all truck driver’s employers treat their employees well do you think there would still be a need to import truck drivers or would enough local drivers be available to fill all the trucks, remembering that overall conditions would have improved?
And the problem with that is?
Nothing at all from the perspective of someone already in Canada. Prospective immigrants may not like it much.
P S (this thread is up to 4 pages now, the longest we have had here for ages. How many pages will we get to, I wonder.) 
This whole discussion started with the problem of “bad companies or bad drivers” not whether Canada “needs” drivers or not so your argument is redundant. Lets find something else to keep this going 
Canada doesnt need more drivers it needs less trucks. Fewer trucks fewer drivers needed they should just not allow ■■■■ companies to have trucks. Problem solved lots of miles for everyone. Everyone is happy. It is as simple as pulling their DOT registration.
I just had an email from the guy who posted on the H&R blog… He says in it…
“… and I hadn’t earnt a thing after 8 weeks.”
A great start with H&R eh?
If you go over to any other job, you will have guaranteed earnings from day 1, won’t you?
The new H&R blogger Eric boattails says this (translated from his dutch blog)…
H & R would pay the hotel bill, and the Gateway account, they would pay.
By Cathy then I would direct the full amount paid.
Cathy had now also received the bill from Gateway, this was 2437.05 CAD / Euro 1860.34.
The hotel bill had risen to 1471.86 CAD / Euro 1123.55.
When added together is 3908.91 CAD / 2983.89 Euro, but luckily I get a large portion of that amount back through my Canadian tax return.
Cathy promised me solemnly by which time all of this for me to arrange.
So his training cost $2437, but on the contract it would have said it is going to be less than that, still, Dave Foders 2IC Cathy Thaker has promised he will get a large amount back in his tax return.
They pay it and take it out of your wages in about 12 instalments.
Do nurses and Police officers from the UK starting work in Canada have to pay for training?
dave_lol66:
This whole discussion started with the problem of “bad companies or bad drivers” not whether Canada “needs” drivers or not so your argument is redundant. Lets find something else to keep this going
Ok, sounds good to me, we are probably as near to agreeing as we can get.
Take Bad Companies then. What motivates them to import drivers?
It must cost them a fair bit to get people over, so they must be saving greater costs elsewhere or there is a hidden income derived from facilitating entry to Canada.
I think we can discount philanthropy from the way they treat people that they bring over.
Brentanna:
Canada doesnt need more drivers it needs less trucks. Fewer trucks fewer drivers needed they should just not allow [zb] companies to have trucks. Problem solved lots of miles for everyone. Everyone is happy. It is as simple as pulling their DOT registration.
That would work, but the Canadian government seem to think there is a need for more OTR drivers.
Would close down one of the routes into Canada for people seeking a better life. That may be a good thing depending on where you are sitting ATM.
mickfly:
I just had an email from the guy who posted on the H&R blog… He says in it…
“… and I hadn’t earnt a thing after 8 weeks.”
A great start with H&R eh?
If you go over to any other job, you will have guaranteed earnings from day 1, won’t you?
The new H&R blogger Eric boattails says this (translated from his dutch blog)…
H & R would pay the hotel bill, and the Gateway account, they would pay.
By Cathy then I would direct the full amount paid.
Cathy had now also received the bill from Gateway, this was 2437.05 CAD / Euro 1860.34.
The hotel bill had risen to 1471.86 CAD / Euro 1123.55.
When added together is 3908.91 CAD / 2983.89 Euro, but luckily I get a large portion of that amount back through my Canadian tax return.
Cathy promised me solemnly by which time all of this for me to arrange.
So his training cost $2437, but on the contract it would have said it is going to be less than that, still, Dave Foders 2IC Cathy Thaker has promised he will get a large amount back in his tax return.
They pay it and take it out of your wages in about 12 instalments.
Do nurses and Police officers from the UK starting work in Canada have to pay for training?
Certainly doesn’t sound right. Presumably they act this way for a reason. Any idea what that reason might be?
Are they in the business of transporting freight or fleecing immigrants? They must have what seems to them to be a rational reason to act the way they do.
No-one runs a business that badly, on the surface, just for the hell of it.
Big Jon’s dad:
mickfly:
I just had an email from the guy who posted on the H&R blog… He says in it…
“… and I hadn’t earnt a thing after 8 weeks.”
A great start with H&R eh?
If you go over to any other job, you will have guaranteed earnings from day 1, won’t you?
The new H&R blogger Eric boattails says this (translated from his dutch blog)…
H & R would pay the hotel bill, and the Gateway account, they would pay.
By Cathy then I would direct the full amount paid.
Cathy had now also received the bill from Gateway, this was 2437.05 CAD / Euro 1860.34.
The hotel bill had risen to 1471.86 CAD / Euro 1123.55.
When added together is 3908.91 CAD / 2983.89 Euro, but luckily I get a large portion of that amount back through my Canadian tax return.
Cathy promised me solemnly by which time all of this for me to arrange.
So his training cost $2437, but on the contract it would have said it is going to be less than that, still, Dave Foders 2IC Cathy Thaker has promised he will get a large amount back in his tax return.
They pay it and take it out of your wages in about 12 instalments.
Do nurses and Police officers from the UK starting work in Canada have to pay for training?
Certainly doesn’t sound right. Presumably they act this way for a reason. Any idea what that reason might be?
Are they in the business of transporting freight or fleecing immigrants? They must have what seems to them to be a rational reason to act the way they do.
No-one runs a business that badly, on the surface, just for the hell of it.
If you read the work accounts of other ex-pat truckers like Dave Caldwell and Bob the dog, you will see the difference (they get paid properly and dispatched and re-loaded properly).
H&R lease their trucks by the mile and pay their drivers by the mile, so if neither are moving it costs very little, and THEY DO NOT PAY detention pay or layover pay, which other companies do, so they can afford to keep bringing them over, and undercutting competitors. Most of the drivers DO NOT stand up to them, so they keep doing it.
The red Top newspapers here have been talking about a shortage of HGV drivers in the UK, but maybe it’s just the companies priming the gov’t to let more foreign drivers into the UK, just as there is a ‘shortage’ of drivers in Canada.
ALL the ex H&R drivers (and some current ones) I have spoken to have EXACTLY the same gripes, which could be solved and it would fix their driver retention rate, but they keep doing the same things, so, obviously there is some reason for it, and that reason can only be PROFIT.
Obviously they do it to make PROFIT. All businesses exist to make a profit. It is not criminal to make a profit, even if some people think profit is a bad thing. Normally profit seeking creates employment for people who won’t or can’t make their own profit by running their own enterprises.
What you say still doesn’t make sense as having equipment and personel standing around without earning profit for the company, even at low cost, is not something any company wants to do. After all, they wouldn’t need so many drivers, with all the associated costs of recruiting those drivers, if they kept the trucks rolling.
I think we are missing something. They must be making money other than by keeping their employees busy.
Big Jon’s dad:
Obviously they do it to make PROFIT. All businesses exist to make a profit. It is not criminal to make a profit, even if some people think profit is a bad thing. Normally profit seeking creates employment for people who won’t or can’t make their own profit by running their own enterprises.
What you say still doesn’t make sense as having equipment and personel standing around without earning profit for the company, even at low cost, is not something any company wants to do. After all, they wouldn’t need so many drivers, with all the associated costs of recruiting those drivers, if they kept the trucks rolling.
I think we are missing something. They must be making money other than by keeping their employees busy.
I certainly don’t think making a profit is a bad thing, but not at the expense of destroying families.
“I think we are missing something. They must be making money other than by keeping their employees busy.”
Plenty of rumours abound, but I do try to stick to facts, so no comment.
I’m sure destroying families is not their objective, merely colateral damage. Businesses aren’t run to either help or destroy families. Employees are tools to do a job that creates profit for the business owners. That is what they went into business to do. Obviously not all business owners are hard hearted bar stewards, apart from me that is 
. There are some that treat good employees like part of the family, but they still are there to make themselves profit.
So far we have decided that these companies aren’t being encouraged by the government to weed out poor quality immigrants.
We have agreed that having people and equipment standing around has some cost even if not much and that standing around does not on the surface make any profit.
But we know they do it anyway. So they must have a reason.
If they don’t make money merely for providing an excuse for people to enter Canada, and I guess you would know if you had to pay them for anything like that, they must get their profit from something else. Are they using their companies as tax loss generators to avoid paying taxes on another business or are they making money from the immigration process itself? If they keep recruiting people and not trying to keep them once they have recruited them, it must be that there is a benefit from the actual recruitment process.
This presumably applies to some of the other trucking companies too.
As for the drivers that jumped ship and found decent employers, I guess they had what it takes. The sense to know when to jump.
mickfly:
Do nurses and Police officers from the UK starting work in Canada have to pay for training?
Anyone who goes to University pays. One of the contributors to this site has paid for his wife to go back to school to realise a lifelong ambition to become a nurse. Anyone who goes on to college here pays. Anyone who wants their Class 1 in the UK pays, same as they do here.
Of course we have to pay. Everyone has to pay. I really do not understand why you are dredging this up again now- did you make a new years resolution or something? I paid for my licence in the UK, and I paid for my ADR, so the argument you make is not really valid. As for Erik, well he is a dutchman which means he has to pay for his class 5 before he can do his class 1. Naturally, this all costs.
I am not defending the firms, but they have to cover their own arses as well. Imagine if they are paying $2k for 50 drivers per year to pass a test. That means they are paying a huge sum, maybe the cost of one and a half experienced, licenced drivers in training costs alone. Do you think, even for one second, that they are doing it in full knowledge that they are ruining peoples lives.
That is simply impossible. They are trying to employ people to do the job. They are not always hiring the drivers that can do the job and it really is that simple. Look at it like this. Eddie Stobart drivers are classed as jokes a lot of the time, yet he has been in business a long time. H&R have been in business a long time. BFS have. Your argument is deeply personal and it distorts your point of view.
I assumed Mick was talking about qualified nurses and Police moving to Canada.
I’m not sure if they would need to retrain and gain Canadian equivalent qualifications.
Electricians certainly have to retake their exams as their UK qualifications are not acceptable and the occupation is a protected one.
One of my sons is qualified as a UK instalation electrician but can’t work in Canada as an electrician until he sits their exams.
His training would have to be paid for by himself at college or he would have to find an employer to put him through the exams and pick up the training tab.
bobthedog:
mickfly:
Do nurses and Police officers from the UK starting work in Canada have to pay for training?
Anyone who goes to University pays. One of the contributors to this site has paid for his wife to go back to school to realise a lifelong ambition to become a nurse. Anyone who goes on to college here pays. Anyone who wants their Class 1 in the UK pays, same as they do here.
Of course we have to pay. Everyone has to pay. I really do not understand why you are dredging this up again now- did you make a new years resolution or something? I paid for my licence in the UK, and I paid for my ADR, so the argument you make is not really valid. As for Erik, well he is a dutchman which means he has to pay for his class 5 before he can do his class 1. Naturally, this all costs.
I am not defending the firms, but they have to cover their own arses as well. Imagine if they are paying $2k for 50 drivers per year to pass a test. That means they are paying a huge sum, maybe the cost of one and a half experienced, licenced drivers in training costs alone. Do you think, even for one second, that they are doing it in full knowledge that they are ruining peoples lives.
That is simply impossible. They are trying to employ people to do the job. They are not always hiring the drivers that can do the job and it really is that simple. Look at it like this. Eddie Stobart drivers are classed as jokes a lot of the time, yet he has been in business a long time. H&R have been in business a long time. BFS have. Your argument is deeply personal and it distorts your point of view.
I wasn’t complaining that I had to pay for my test, I was asking the question about other trades.
Just because companies have been in business for a long time does not make them great companies for employees, and this… “They are not always hiring the drivers that can do the job and it really is that simple.” is clearly not true Bob.
Let me PM some info and tell me if you would stand for it, if the TFW should stand for it, and if the company is the bees knees to be doing it.
Big Jon’s dad:
I assumed Mick was talking about qualified nurses and Police moving to Canada.
.
Yes I was.
If they need further training to bring them up to speed, do they pay for it?
mickfly:
Big Jon’s dad:
I assumed Mick was talking about qualified nurses and Police moving to Canada.
.
Yes I was.
If they need further training to bring them up to speed, do they pay for it?
I don’t know if they do or not but I do know they are more restricted on choice of employer than a truck driver would be.
Mick said: and if the company is the bees knees to be doing it.
Regardless of how good or bad the company is from your POV, whatever they are doing is working for them or they wouldn’t keep on doing it. The benefits must outweigh the costs, otherwise there couldn’t be a profit for them.
But if your son wanted to work as a sparky here then he would be prepared to pay, wouldn’t he? Same as we all were prepared to pay to get the licence here.
Protected professions are such for a reason, aren’t they. There is no point in knowing how the UK standards are if you are not going to satisfy the Canadian ones, even if the electricians in the UK have much more stringent regulations than here. As for doctors, I confess that I really do not know. I know they have to do something to be recognised here, and I think it is largely to do with where they qualified in the first place. Nurses have to retrain because things are different, and I am willing to bet they would be shocked at how prepared they are to spend money here.
Same thing for plumbers. I am lucky because I am able to do most things thanks to growing up in a house where I had to rewire the light cicuit before I was 10 years old, and where adding and capping water pipes was something I learned. Could I pass any exams or meet any standards? Not a hope in hell but I have no need to do so unless I try to sell the house. I have installed the new water pump, 2 new sump pumps, bypassed the septic system with the groundwater sump, spent bloody ages redoing the lights in the basement… It’s great… 110 volts doesn’t hurt… much! 
But we drivers are hired as TFWs. That is how it is largely done. We are then offered the opportunity to apply to stay. If it takes 2 years then it does… tough luck. In those 2 years, keep your nose clean and keep plugging away. It goes by fast if you work hard.
Yes he would have to pay to become a sparky and is going to pay for his own training eventually. Trouble is you can train to be a truck driver in a week. Electrical training in Canada is a 4 year apprenticeship, working under a qualified electrician. It is possible to take the exams without doing the apprenticeship but no-one seems to offer training in the Canadian wiring regs and practices outside of the full apprentice schemes.
240 volts doesn’t hurt that much either. Don’t ask… 
Trust me, 240 is much worse…
bobthedog:
Trust me, 240 is much worse…
I’ve had both 110v and 240v. 110 was quite a while ago mind. Tingled a bit. 240 bites and makes you feel shaky for a while. I have a scar on my hand from touching the live end of a terminal bolt at 240v inside an old hood dryer I thought was unplugged. Not a bright thing to do and I do know better but hey, ■■■■ happens.
I regularly get a belt from the plug pins of 13 amp plugs on some appliances from the suppressor capacitor which is wired across the live and neutral lead to reduce radio static. I curse every time it happens as it makes me jump. It is harmless as the current is so low but it still shocks me.