what if it was a double decker?
are you supposed to monkey your way up to the top deck to make sure all is well■■?
daffyd:
what if it was a double decker?
are you supposed to monkey your way up to the top deck to make sure all is well■■?
Now thats a good point. Technically your still liable but its practically impossible to check the upper deck
daffyd:
what if it was a double decker?
are you supposed to monkey your way up to the top deck to make sure all is well■■?
They is a good invention called a gantry, which enables drivers to check and secure a top deck.
If operators are running loads and trailers you can’t not physical check then they are running the wrong kit for the job.
what about the box deckers that have a moving floor, if they’re loaded to the back on the top deck then there’s no way your’e going to see what’s what
even if they weren’t loaded right to the back you’d still have to climb between the moving deck and top of the roller door bit!
daffyd:
what about the box deckers that have a moving floor, if they’re loaded to the back on the top deck then there’s no way your’e going to see what’s whateven if they weren’t loaded right to the back you’d still have to climb between the moving deck and top of the roller door bit!
Maybe if you put your energy into actually restraining the loads or going out your way to find out how to restrain the loads. Or perhaps maybe suggest ways how to.
Instead of finding reasons not to, it’s your job to check before departure on a public highway FFS.
Please refer to my previous posts only just 2hrs ago about lost loads in a container.
I do believe lorry drivers are fined per illegal immigrant they bring into the country?
If you picked up a container on the continent would you not even want to even think you would do the right thing and check? 
I was just saying…some pre loaded trailers it’s impossible to check unless you get them to unload it so you can see everything and help?? strap it or whatever, just unrealistic
I won’t be going to Europe!
daffyd:
I was just saying…some pre loaded trailers it’s impossible to check unless you get them to unload it so you can see everything and help?? strap it or whatever, just unrealisticI won’t be going to Europe!
So why don’t drivers insist on live loading?
When you can see exactly what is being loaded and what you going to be carrying?
The reason this practice does not happen is because of time, profit and spineless drivers.
daffyd:
I was just saying…some pre loaded trailers it’s impossible to check unless you get them to unload it so you can see everything and help?? strap it or whatever, just unrealisticI won’t be going to Europe!
You just think it’s impossible as someone as told you it’s company policy
Have I really wasted 3 pages of my posts.
chester:
Iam that confident of my belief, I shall give a Pepsi challenge to this forum.
Can any poster give an example of when a driver like me would not be in a position to check, restrain a load?Of course, unless it was for the general reasons of being fat, lazy or useless.
Imagine how much we’d all get moaned at if we ALL went through the daily procedure of:-
Calling Manager
Getting seal removed properly witnessed and documented
Visually inspecting that straps are in place/secure
Re-sealing trailer, new seal issued, number recoreded by manager on sheet etc.
Setting off upon your way.
The big bit that is the falling down here, isn’t the Driver but the “manager” who suddenly has disappeared from the scene just as a half a dozen drivers are about to leave at once…
If anyone should DARE to whip off the seal themselves whilst no one is about - guess who gets anything from a serious bollocking to outright instant dismissal for “cutting corners on security procedures”…
Then there’s the issue of whipping it off whilst “out”, especially if parked in a layby at the time… Who they gonna look at if the load is then “short” a few outers?
The best protection for the driver is for the manifest to have some kind of documentary proof that the DEPOT has sealed the trailer, giving no access to the driver upon pain of a theft charge, and putting their hands up in advance to carrying the can should customs/vosa/plod decide that they need to look inside… 
Winseer:
chester:
Iam that confident of my belief, I shall give a Pepsi challenge to this forum.
Can any poster give an example of when a driver like me would not be in a position to check, restrain a load?Of course, unless it was for the general reasons of being fat, lazy or useless.
Imagine how much we’d all get moaned at if we ALL went through the daily procedure of:-
Calling Manager
Getting seal removed properly witnessed and documented
Visually inspecting that straps are in place/secure
Re-sealing trailer, new seal issued, number recoreded by manager on sheet etc.
Setting off upon your way.The big bit that is the falling down here, isn’t the Driver but the “manager” who suddenly has disappeared from the scene just as a half a dozen drivers are about to leave at once…
If anyone should DARE to whip off the seal themselves whilst no one is about - guess who gets anything from a serious bollocking to outright instant dismissal for “cutting corners on security procedures”…
Then there’s the issue of whipping it off whilst “out”, especially if parked in a layby at the time… Who they gonna look at if the load is then “short” a few outers?
The best protection for the driver is for the manifest to have some kind of documentary proof that the DEPOT has sealed the trailer, giving no access to the driver upon pain of a theft charge, and putting their hands up in advance to carrying the can should customs/vosa/plod decide that they need to look inside…
Ok, what resonable grounds would VOSA, or the police have the to open up a trailer to search it?
Do the livestock guys have to strap down each individual pig, cow, chicken, duck and hamsters now?
It could be argued that VOSA will NEVER have reasonable grounds to search any trailer whatsoever.
Imagine how easy it would be to smuggle just about anything into the country - if that were “fact” and “generally known about”.
Perhaps this is the actual reason why we have runaway illegal immigration in this country. Our doors are already wide open, yet still there are many who feel the need to sneak in, perhaps because they are from “beyond” Europe, have no job prospects whatsoever, no cash, and no papers. The papers would have been discarded as to not reveal that there was actually no risk of death should that person be returned to their country of origin (eg. Morocco) instead of making themselves out to be “paperless” Somalian, Nigerian, or whatever.
The big fine “per immigrant” does not depend on what country they came from.
I suggest that by not pulling anywhere near enough of us - VOSA are, in fact, not doing their job properly.
I’ve only been pulled once in the past 3 years for a full customs-officials present check of my trailer and contents… (Langdons load from Dover to Andover swap, pulled in at Fleet services)
I was checked even for things like “cracked chassis on trailer” and “under-inflated tyres”. The whole check took over an hour.
Winseer:
It could be argued that VOSA will NEVER have reasonable grounds to search any trailer whatsoever.
There’s no argument about it. VOSA have no powers of vehicle search. You’ll find that info also fron the horses mouth by way of the FOI site, What Do They Know.
In theory that means they can’t just say…open the doors mate we want a look inside. In practice they do this.
Of course if they see something protruding through a curtain they are fully entitled to assume some load looks like it has come adrift and they want to look at it, that is within their remit after all.
There’s an easy way to stop them overstepping their powers. When they ask to open the doors, pop a seal on right in front of them. Then ask them to write a statememt confirming why they want to break it and look inside the trailer.
chester:
Have I really wasted 3 pages of my posts.
No you havn’t. You’ve made a great point. You say you can inspect anything you like. Fine. MY question to you is…how should loaded roll cages be secured in a trailer, this will be a potential load you’ll be checking so i’d be interested to hear your answer. What is it you’ll be looking for ?
Winseer:
It could be argued that VOSA will NEVER have reasonable grounds to search any trailer whatsoever.Imagine how easy it would be to smuggle just about anything into the country - if that were “fact” and “generally known about”.
Perhaps this is the actual reason why we have runaway illegal immigration in this country. Our doors are already wide open, yet still there are many who feel the need to sneak in, perhaps because they are from “beyond” Europe, have no job prospects whatsoever, no cash, and no papers. The papers would have been discarded as to not reveal that there was actually no risk of death should that person be returned to their country of origin (eg. Morocco) instead of making themselves out to be “paperless” Somalian, Nigerian, or whatever.The big fine “per immigrant” does not depend on what country they came from.
I suggest that by not pulling anywhere near enough of us - VOSA are, in fact, not doing their job properly.
I’ve only been pulled once in the past 3 years for a full customs-officials present check of my trailer and contents… (Langdons load from Dover to Andover swap, pulled in at Fleet services)
I was checked even for things like “cracked chassis on trailer” and “under-inflated tyres”. The whole check took over an hour.
I don’t think border control is in VOSA’s job discription.
Mike-C:
Winseer:
It could be argued that VOSA will NEVER have reasonable grounds to search any trailer whatsoever.There’s no argument about it. VOSA have no powers of vehicle search. You’ll find that info also fron the horses mouth by way of the FOI site, What Do They Know.
In theory that means they can’t just say…open the doors mate we want a look inside. In practice they do this.
Of course if they see something protruding through a curtain they are fully entitled to assume some load looks like it has come adrift and they want to look at it, that is within their remit after all.
There’s an easy way to stop them overstepping their powers. When they ask to open the doors, pop a seal on right in front of them. Then ask them to write a statememt confirming why they want to break it and look inside the trailer.
Well that’s just about cleared that up then, but some driver being drivers will just help VOSA in their quest for a bust.
Mike-C:
chester:
Have I really wasted 3 pages of my posts.No you havn’t. You’ve made a great point. You say you can inspect anything you like. Fine. MY question to you is…how should loaded roll cages be secured in a trailer, this will be a potential load you’ll be checking so i’d be interested to hear your answer. What is it you’ll be looking for ?
Seriously is this a question?
Here goes.
A solid sided trailer then a couple of straps every 9 cages, maybe a couple of straps every 6 cages if the cages are particuly heavy a couple of straps every 3 cages. Of course this depends if the configuration is 3 cages a row.
Of course restraining bars could also be used.
Although can you be more precise in your Trailer/cage and load so I can give a definate answer as opposed to the one I’ve given more likend to a supermarket trailer delivery.
I could even tell you how to check this but that’s not what you asked is it 
chester:
Mike-C:
chester:
Have I really wasted 3 pages of my posts.No you havn’t. You’ve made a great point. You say you can inspect anything you like. Fine. MY question to you is…how should loaded roll cages be secured in a trailer, this will be a potential load you’ll be checking so i’d be interested to hear your answer. What is it you’ll be looking for ?
Seriously is this a question?
Here goes.
A solid sided trailer then a couple of straps every 9 cages, maybe a couple of straps every 6 cages if the cages are particuly heavy a couple of straps every 3 cages. Of course this depends if the configuration is 3 cages a row.
Of course restraining bars could also be used.Although can you be more precise in your Trailer/cage and load so I can give a definate answer as opposed to the one I’ve given more likend to a supermarket trailer delivery.
I could even tell you how to check this but that’s not what you asked is it
You tell me…
(1) How you’re going to get in a box and check the load. (of cages).
(2) How you’re going to get in or out of a curtain and check the cages. And in the case of a curtain, what or how are you looking for the cages to be secured ?
chester:
Seriously is this a question?
And yes, seriously its a question. And you’ve answer the easy part by mentioning how a box side trailer should be loaded, secured. I want to know how you check it. Then the rest of the questions as above.
I would pop the seal if one present.
Open the back doors, and simply shine a torch down the sides of the cages. They are never flush against the sides of the trailer if they have been restrained correctly as the tension in the restraint will pull them central into the trailer pushing against the headboard/cages behind.
So if you can’t shine a narrow beam of light, eg maglight down the sides of the cages or see and physical restraints in the gap between trailer sides and cages. The I would investigate further.