A month or so ago, I was involved in a very minor scrape in the car, and wondered what your thoughts were on insurance liability. I am thinking probably split liability, but the case I mention below makes me wonder.
I have copy and pasted my account of the incident along with a rough sketch of what happened.
Any thoughts much appreciated!
Please see images and sketch attached showing the location of this incident.
In terms of case law, it seems that the Challoner vs. Williams and Croney case was similar.
As I approached the red light and the cars that were already stationary at the red light on North Road, I could clearly see into Rhondda Road (where I was heading) and saw a van exiting the Rhondda Road junction on the right hand side to turn left into North Road and pass me. I waited for him to pass, checked my off side mirror, indicated right and proceeded to overtake the stationary car ahead of me, in order to enter the Rhondda road junction when I thought it was safe to do so.
As I turned right, the third party hit me, scraping the off side of my car. There were at least 2 stationary cars behind me (I have witness evidence to confirm this), so the third party must have overtaken at least 2 stationary cars on the wrong side of the road before hitting me. At the point he decided to overtake, there was no possible way that he could have seen into Rhondda Road (for oncoming traffic), or whether the oncoming traffic on North Road had come through the opposite green light yet.
I had very similar kind of incident a few years ago and initially it was going to go 50/50 which I was furious about, but a guy who saw what happened and stopped after the incident kindly gave a witness statement and confirmed I was completely not a fault and the claim went fully against the other party.
At the end of the day, it’s down to your insurance if they can be bothered to try fight his insurance.
I was quite lucky in that it happened on my way home from work and a colleague was directly behind me so saw it all. My argument is that the driver couldn’t have possibly been able to see in to the junction I was heading into so shouldn’t have been overtaking cars that were behind me to get there.
My colleague from work is willing to give a witness account so hopefully that’ll help. The 3rd party insurance has been in contact so it sounds like he is looking to make a claim, so I’m hoping my little drawing below backed up by a witness statement will help my cause and I’ll not lose any no claims discount.
Judging from the diagram you have pulled out into the path of a moving vehicle.
Had the 3rd party been a well-trained driver he would have spotted your front wheels start to turn, sounded his horn, braked and thus hopefully avoided the collision.
Not wanting to get all Columbo but… one more thing…
If I was the solicitor acting on behalf of the other guys insurance I’d be throwing doubt as to whether a party known to the other person (ie your colleague) is truly an independent witness.
toonsy:
Not wanting to get all Columbo but… one more thing…
If I was the solicitor acting on behalf of the other guys insurance I’d be throwing doubt as to whether a party known to the other person (ie your colleague) is truly an independent witness.
If I am reading the situation correctly a little patience would have avoided any accident. Both drivers at fault I would say so probably 50/50.
toonsy:
Not wanting to get all Columbo but… one more thing…
If I was the solicitor acting on behalf of the other guys insurance I’d be throwing doubt as to whether a party known to the other person (ie your colleague) is truly an independent witness.
If I am reading the situation correctly a little patience would have avoided any accident. Both drivers at fault I would say so probably 50/50.
Yeah defo. But I’m into the realms of what solicitors may try here.
If that’s the account you sent, I read the words Red ligh5 a few times but not the word Green anywhere? Just on the description, either you went through a red light or you both did. Nothing there says or claims the other driver did
No need to quote a cas3 stayed, you may well be using the wrong one that’s been superseded
As it stands your3 accepting you went through a red. I rest my case.
Acorn, you’ve totally misunderstood the situation, re-read it while looking at the picture.
As for liability I’d have said it was your fault. You should have made sure nothing was overtaking you before pulling out to overtake yourself. That includes a blind spot check.
So, the OP is in a queue of traffic at a red light? (Describing himself pulling out to pass a “stationary car” doesn’t affect the fact he’s in a queue).
He wants to drive down the wrong side of the road, in order to take the next turn right. He doesn’t see someone else doing the exact same thing, and pulls out into him?
Is that it?
I think Simcor is correct, that you’re both in the wrong to drive down the wrong side of the road. I would say you’re “wronger” because you didn’t check adequately before moving.
It’s plain and simple really. Both vehicles should have waited till the lights changed to green and turned right into the road they were going at the appropriate point.
Impatience from both drivers and as usual everyone blames everthing else but themselves.
Goff118:
Lesson learned and let’s see what the insurance do.
They will…
Do the bare minimum to fulfil their end of the contact with you. That includes, working a deal with the 3rd party insurer, losing your claim in the system, finding your claim in the system, ignoring your emails, ignoring your phone calls, telling you porky pies, hoping you’ll settle for the first ridiculously out of touch offer they send down the line at you and generally trying any device they can to avoid paying a shilling out to anyone.
There is nothing really wrong in the manoeuvre you chose to undertake. There is no law that says you cannot overtake stationary traffic waiting at a red light … otherwise multi-lane approaches wouldn’t work. It seems you simply omitted to check your blind spot, as so many do. We all make mistakes.
Yep, thanks. The damage was minimal and I havent claimed, but have heard the third party has. Don’t know why he’d bother as his insurance will be affected as well now but hey ho, I don’t have to worry about it until my insurance needs renewing next October!
Driveroneuk:
There is nothing really wrong in the manoeuvre you chose to undertake. There is no law that says you cannot overtake stationary traffic waiting at a red light … otherwise multi-lane approaches wouldn’t work. It seems you simply omitted to check your blind spot, as so many do. We all make mistakes.
Really! And what happens when you pull out onto the wrong side of the road and a vehicle suddenly comes out of Rhondda Road right in front of you?
Goff118:
Lesson learned and let’s see what the insurance do.
They will…
Do the bare minimum to fulfil their end of the contact with you. That includes, working a deal with the 3rd party insurer, losing your claim in the system, finding your claim in the system, ignoring your emails, ignoring your phone calls, telling you porky pies, hoping you’ll settle for the first ridiculously out of touch offer they send down the line at you and generally trying any device they can to avoid paying a shilling out to anyone.
Happy Xmas
Try a decent insurance company and these problems may not arise.
Driveroneuk:
There is nothing really wrong in the manoeuvre you chose to undertake. There is no law that says you cannot overtake stationary traffic waiting at a red light … otherwise multi-lane approaches wouldn’t work. It seems you simply omitted to check your blind spot, as so many do. We all make mistakes.
Really! And what happens when you pull out onto the wrong side of the road and a vehicle suddenly comes out of Rhondda Road right in front of you?
