Fergie47:
Interesting…if memory serves, wasn’t this something to do with FORD not being welcome in some M.E. countries, so they were badged differently…wasn’t it a similar problem with FODEN ? which meant something rude in Arabic ■■?
Fergie,I believe a common alteration of the Ford badge on the front of many “Trannies” was “DORF”!!
David
michel:
Berliet TBO 15 with turbo engine from heavy haulage company Mayer.
Evening all,
Michel, thank you for that picture of, (I think), Mayer`s first TBO in 1958. She ran in the original red colours of F Mayer et Courteaux, the original company dating back to the late 1800s. It was only in the 50s that Francois Mayer bought out the “in law” portion of the business and F Mayor and Son, (Jacques), was created. Then came the livery change to deep green.
That TBO was the only Turbo version operated at first, along side two of the naturally aspirated 200 hp Ricardo versions. They ran alongside Mayers Pacific 6x4 M26 ex US Army tank transporters with their 17 litre Hall and Scott petrol engines, (later replaced by ■■■■■■■ diesels), though the Hall and Scott consumption was around 8 litres per kilometre they regularly ran with 100 tonne plus payloads such as 110 Ruston Bucyrus machines.
The Berliet TBO Range lured French heavy haulage operators away from the ex US surplus machines, Pacifics, and Diamond Ts, and at last offered a reasonable package for their job. Economic, and reasonable cost to purchase. I have seen a picture of that particular lorry, on the wall of Charles Dhur`s office, (Mayers Operational Director), and I think that on Michels picture she is coupled to the double swan neck Nicolas80 tonne payload trailer…a weight often, and easily exceeded as normal! Although not easy to see on the picture, behind the cab would have been a Garwood 80 tonne winch from one of the Pacifics.
The subject of trailers used by all of the French heavy hauliers that I dealt with would go on for many, (boring) pages, but the back bone of most of the fleets had come from ex US Army stock. Both cheap to acquire, easy to maintain, and of collosal strength, and quality of build. One of Mayers favourites for its stability, and ease of weight carriage being a simple twin axle M126,as well as the ubiquitous Rogers versions, (re built by Bergerat et Monneyeur, of Rue Christoph Colombe Paris.
Mayer also acquired six of the later TBO M3 cab versions, (the later Relax cab with bonnet), all having ■■■■■■■ 335s, and quite comfortable at 120 tonnes plus. Then came the TBO M3 15As with the 320 Turbo Berliet engine…and Mayers workshops became so proficient at rebuilding these…it was no problem at all! And they could pull, indeed so, I have a picture given to me by Jacques, of one of the later TBO 120S, A Willeme TG200, and a TG250 8X4 pulling a 470 tonne load off a Ro Ro Barge.
Mayers was a large operation, running vehicles both within 35 tonnes, and Hors Code. Yes they had Berliet, and Saviem as well, but not forgetting their Willemes those 6x4, 8x4, and 8x8s were really the ultimate Heavy Hitters. But Anorak, to answer your question about the 15 litre TLMs…
Mayer ran a couple, inside Code @35 tonnes…but they were coupled to tandem axle Fiche 75 ex US Army trailers…converted to tandems by Carrosserie Toussaint in Nancy, and they were “plated” @45 tonnes !!!
Big Girls those TLMs, first one I ever saw was coming towards me at Avignon back in 66. Grief, with a Savoyard on the back it looked just like a Scammel Explorer on Steroids......the sheer size of that radiator ! But Anorak, I apologise if my previous post did not clarify that the TLM 15 was only available with the 15 , (14.780 litre), naturally aspirated version , the MDO3M, @240 hp, from 1958, replacing the 200 hp version with its Recardo Injection, (as Mayers first TBOs) GTW for the TLM 15 was 35 tonnes. Rear axle was the Berliet FFDM double reduction, and the gearbox being the Berliet FBO 3 10 speed. From memory I think that the axle gave around 68kph, but pulling ability, …wow…as Michel says…operators who overloaded liked the TLM. Easily identified by its four front bumper mounted headlights.
1960 saw the factory try to squeeze the 15 litre into the TLM 10 Litre cab and bonnet…it did not work, the radiator was way too small, the model was designated TL15M2, and was produced in 240 hp form until 1965…but with the original bonnet and importantly, the big, big, radiator! By 1962, a new model arrived, the GLM15, which Paul Berliet personally sold in copious numbers to China as a 35 tonne 4x2 Dump truck chassis, which proved ultra reliable in service.
But as an aside, my friends in the heavy game, Stag, from Gennervilliers, ran a TLM, that looked like a TBO!!! The reason being that they had fitted the bogie from an American International M54, and this “faux” TBO could be seen well into the late `70s chugging away at180 tonne payloads, a real workaholic 6x4, in conjunction with their more modern TBO120s. with their Allison automatic 6 speeds behind the (anything but normal), ■■■■■■■ 335s!!!
These were the last of the “specialist” heavy haulage Berliets, because then came the TR305/356s and the 180 tonne rating of tractors that could work inside the “code” at 35/38 tonnes, and 180 tonnes, (and considerably more on occasion), that really took the market away from the TBOs and Willeme TGs…but, boy, if you ever get the chance to see one of those old go go girls working with some weight, then take it, because it is like nothing else in haulage…magnifique!!!
Im away to a large Bollinger…goodness, I have not even mentioned Leyx/Scales/Scalex, or even the TBOs of Dessirier H Zucconi…
Cheerio for now.
Mon dieu! Where in your head do you manage to store all that valuable information? The Bollinger clearly doesn’t interfere with the old synapses in your case, so there’s hope for us all - il-Hamdulillah! Robert 
Not sure, but was this the beginning of the famous Les Routiers, the 20th Avril 1964
(Click on pic )
sammyopisite:
Fergie47:
Interesting…if memory serves, wasn’t this something to do with FORD not being welcome in some M.E. countries, so they were badged differently…wasn’t it a similar problem with FODEN ? which meant something rude in Arabic ■■?Fergie I think it was Portugal which Foden had problems with the name so it called a PODEN as in the picture
0
cheers Johnnie
Could well be right Johnnie…cracking picture by the way…
5thwheel:
Fergie47:
Interesting…if memory serves, wasn’t this something to do with FORD not being welcome in some M.E. countries, so they were badged differently…wasn’t it a similar problem with FODEN ? which meant something rude in Arabic ■■?Fergie,I believe a common alteration of the Ford badge on the front of many “Trannies” was “DORF”!!
David
Maybe David…I never got further than Austria with mine … 
Fergie47:
sammyopisite:
Fergie47:
Interesting…if memory serves, wasn’t this something to do with FORD not being welcome in some M.E. countries, so they were badged differently…wasn’t it a similar problem with FODEN ? which meant something rude in Arabic ■■?Fergie I think it was Portugal which Foden had problems with the name so it called a PODEN as in the picture
0
cheers Johnnie
Could well be right Johnnie…cracking picture by the way…
5thwheel:
Fergie47:
Interesting…if memory serves, wasn’t this something to do with FORD not being welcome in some M.E. countries, so they were badged differently…wasn’t it a similar problem with FODEN ? which meant something rude in Arabic ■■?Fergie,I believe a common alteration of the Ford badge on the front of many “Trannies” was “DORF”!!
DavidMaybe David…I never got further than Austria with mine …
My understanding was this. Foden means something rude in Spanish, so a common alteration for lads running to Spain was Poden.
The problem with Fords in Arabia was that ford allegedly had an ‘■■■■■■’ plant in Israel, so that Fords were impossible to import into most Arabian countries under their illegal ‘blacklist’.
I understand some drivers even had problems at the borders, just entering or transiting, Hence the ‘Dorf’, and also ‘■■■■■■■■■
I personally delivered 2 ‘Mercury’ cars (Fords), a sports and a saloon, each in a 20’ container, to one of the princes in Riyadh. It was the only time that I remember in ten years that the owner of Caravan Trading, Ali Al Ghoson ever actually went on the port to clear anything himself! I presume some cash changed hands.
When I got to Riyadh, there was a crane to unload the containers, but they were an exact fit in the containers, and everyone was scratching their heads about getting them out. I figured the sun roofs had to be open, so I took off my shoes and climbed in, then reversed them out.
The Prince’s agent gave me a £600 tip for doing that!
A good day’s work!
Later, when I was operations manager, I had a large American give me a very hard time, because I told him he was going to have to return quite a large consignment of (I think) ‘Case’ heavy equipment to America because it was on this blacklist.
He told me in no uncertain terms that he was going to sue our ‘tinpot’ company for every last dime, for refusing to import his goods.
It was still on the docks last time I saw it!
John.
Evening all,
Well Fergie, another thought provoking collection of pictures! None more so than the 1949 Willeme 8x4 W200 18 litre straight 8 powered 200 tonne outfit for the Portugese power authority. The design brief was for a complete lorry to cope with 100/150 tonne payloads, capable of working on very poor road surfaces, and bridges with limited weight bearing capacity! The tractor may look a little specialised, but it is the trailer that really is the most interesting part…
Created by Societe Construction Automobiles et de Reparation, (SCARI), Neuilly sur Seine, who were specialists in the modification, and rebuilding of ex US Army trailers for the French Heavy Haulage industry. The Portugese destined trailer was supported at the front by a divided single axle with four wheels, at the rear the triple bogie had three four wheeled axles, all of which were steerable from a rear mounted driving station. The centre section, carrying the load slung between its main beams, had the facility to be raised and lowered by a separate engine powering its hydraulic system. SCARI were to later adapt this system to allow the road wheels to be substituted for railway bogies, so this design could truly be a versatile “road/railer”. Germany`s Saar Elektrizitat were one of SCARIs clients for this design. Similar trailers, with either combinations of single, twin, or tri axle front bogies, and all with tri axle rear bogies were also constructed utilising “re-cycled” ex US, or British, (and even German) WW2 trailers as a basis. I recall seeing one such unit, in the colours of Gary de Favris still being used in the late 70s.
Willeme, made a big hit with the 200 tonner…but only sold one 8x4 version, they were hand built quality machines, but the market at that time was awash with ex US surplus M26 Pacifics, and Diamond Ts…and they were cheap to acquire,(if a little odd on the eye,Fergies image of the Moraud of Bordeaux Pacific refers), but they could handle massive weights, and it was easy to swop the Hall and Scott Petrol for a ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ gave all of 200bhp plenty for 150 tonnes plus…but I was told by and old mechanic at Dessirier H Zucchoni`s, that the drive chains wore out very quickly, exactly the opposite of the road speed)!!!
Louis Willeme may have started out reconditioning ex WW1 Liberty Trucks, but he was a true inventive engineer with a very close knit, and capable team around him headed by Chief Engineer Robert Klotz. The 200 tonners 8cylinder 225 hp reached the road via a 3 range 4 speed gearbox, with an auxillary air compressor mounted at its rear, so engine failure did not mean no brakes…no spring brakes old boy! Then to Willeme hub reduction axles, giving a roadspeed of around 25kph @200 tonnes, and a 15% grade capability.
In reality, the 200 tonner was Willemes 6x4 Military Tank tractor unit, with a second steering axle, but the design idea was to form the basis of what in my personal opinion, was to become one of the finest specialist heavy haulage vehicles ever created the Willeme 6x4, 8x4, and 8x8 TG range, the majority of which would be manufactured under licence by Perez et Raimond, and used to such great effect by Frances leading heavy hauliers.
And for Anorak, Fergie finds two really good images showing to great effect the suitability of Berliets 15 litre 240 hp, TLM 4x2, she may have been rated @35 tonnes, but that big 13 tonne rear axle could cope with some weight, non more so than lugging one of those bizzare rail transporter waggons around…(so common back in the 60s and early 70s, both in France and Italy), and in the Petroleum fields of North Africa .
Then there is the delightful “little” 10 litre, (9.8 to be exact, ) Lovely reliable lorry @35 tonnes, (provided it did not have the turbocharged version …or the twin stick “tricateuse” transmission), but a great fleet vehicle, and the one pictured had a family connection with the famed middle east, and Nigeria haulier Chapuis from Lyon…but its getting past my bed time, perhaps a small Bollinger to aid slumber…and recall memories of the shrieking yowl of Mayers Detroit powered TG Willemes with their oh so swift changing Fuller boxes rolling along with quite obscene weights behind, and in front of them…What a lullaby
Cheerio for now.
Saviem:
… And for Anorak, Fergie finds two really good images showing to great effect the suitability of Berliets 15 litre 240 hp, TLM 4x2…Cheerio for now.
A 240bhp 4x2 tractor- in 1958, if I am not mistaken- very impressive indeed. That year saw the launch of the Gardner LX, again if my memory serves me correctly. How would a TLM15 fare on fuel consumption, against a typical GB tractor with a 6LX under the shed?
Edit- judging by this photo, even the dashboard is comparable to Atkinson’s:
The photo came from here: cars-pics-db.com/photo/berliet-t … fault.html
[zb]
anorak:Saviem:
… And for Anorak, Fergie finds two really good images showing to great effect the suitability of Berliets 15 litre 240 hp, TLM 4x2…Cheerio for now.A 240bhp 4x2 tractor- in 1958, if I am not mistaken- very impressive indeed. That year saw the launch of the Gardner LX, again if my memory serves me correctly. How would a TLM15 fare on fuel consumption, against a typical GB tractor with a 6LX under the shed?
Edit- judging by this photo, even the dashboard is comparable to Atkinson’s:
0The photo came from here: cars-pics-db.com/photo/berliet-t … fault.html
it’s all relative really, 10.15 litres of the 6LX giving 150 bhp; 15 litres of Berliet for 240 bhp, factor in the probabilty that the Berliet was higher revving than the Gardner’s 1700 rpm, then the bhp per litre is virtually the same from both engines.
Evening all,
I have been warned…if you are not in in 15 minutes for your tea…but no actual penalty was mentioned…that Gentlemen is a severe warning, so I will be brief…
Looking back through this thread for a picture of a really nice TLM 15 litre I came across a vaguely familier picture in Fergies, (David Senior`s), post of 02 Septembre, fifth one down, and you see an amorous young couple embracing in front of a rather fine TLM 15 litre…of course it was familier…it shows, (the rear end), of the delectable Bernadette Lafont, embraced by a rather young Sacha Distel, in the 1960s film “Les Mordus”, the real star of course being the Berliet TLM 15M, and from that still you can judge the effect upon a young Saviem coming face to face with such a beast just outside Avignon back in the 60s, (quite gave me and the little Foden an inferiority complex it did)…
French Film makers were lured by the romance and glamour, (?), of the road, in Britain most of us can recall the sweaty, and gripping drama with Yves Montand, Le Salerie de la Peur, (Wages of Fear), with a Dodge Fargo, and White rigids carrying Nitro Glycerine. But if you can seek it out one of the best films, (from the lorry point of view), is “Gas Oil” starring , (alongside the wonderful Willeme Nez de Requin, LD10), supported by several period Berliets, Saurer`s, Fords etc, and the human star being the humane Jean Gabin. Its a great tale of the good guys, v the bad guys…and the good guys, and heroes are the lorry drivers. Shot in black and white, its gritty, full of suspense, and shows the actors actually working on the tappets of a rough running Willeme 6 cylinder, as well as great driving sequences. Worth seeking out a copy believe me.
One operator who used the TLMs muscle to great effect, was the company Transports Routiers et Garage du Xaintois, (TRGX), from Girancourt sur Vraines,in the Vosges. Run by the delightful M et Mdm Henri Sepulchre. A really interesting company in both conventional, and very heavy haulage. Their fleet had both B61 Macks, Henschel, Volvo N serie, Berliets, TLMs, TBOs, (with a variety of Berliet, ■■■■■■■ power), and finally Renault 360 units, of standard and non standard specification, all coupled to a variety of Cometto, and Nicolas modules. But their 240 hp TLMs ran @ 35 tonnes with Savoyard Trailor tandems with polished aluminium sides, carrying the Vittel waters. The earlier Recardo examples were re motored “in house” with the later M Magic MAN combustion 14 .78 litre units.
That MDO 3M Magic 14.780 litre engine gave its 240 hp @1800 rpm. Bore and stroke were 140x160, and the big difference from the earlier Ricardo design was the adoption of a larger clutch, twin disc with air assistance. WB was 3.75m, and the tractor with couchette weighed 7.700kgs. As anorak says that dashboard was nice to look at, but it was a standard “bought in” component, also seen in the Nez de Requin Willeme cab, but that gear lever, (or levers)! actually was quite easy to use, and the lip on the top was a comfortable resting place for ones hand!
I have not forgotten about the Saviem Le Centaure…but its background is rather long and complicated, (and I do not wish to bore any of you)…and its just started to rain…and if my lady wife was inclined to lock me out…and there is no Bollinger in this old Cow Shed…
Im away
Cheerio for now.
Saviem (John) something that I quite often think about is that you truly have a wealth of knowledge and experience of France and its truck operators. As you are aware no doubt that most of my life in transport was on International fore’s and most trips that I did involved delivering to or trans-versing France to another country. My question is should you have to spend your last days in that country where would you choose to live or in other words where is your favourite place, Buzzer.
Buzzer:
My question is should you have to spend your last days in that country where would you choose to live or in other words where is your favourite place, Buzzer.
I don’t know about Saviem but for me it would be a throw of a coin between Haute Savoie or the Vercors. 
Evening all,
Hey Ho, its been a long old day…forecasts of monsoon rainfalls this week end drove me to one of my favourite pastimes…deepening, and clearing ditches with the trusty , (old), HyMac 360. She may be old, but so smooth, and once you are in the rhythm, well the old brain cells can gallop free up and down the railway sidings of my cranium, whil`st the old girl hums, and creaks away!.
Johnnie, Eric, thank you for your Bussing images, I have been searching my mind for details of when I saw some of the early S 19.210 ones, the one with a cab just like the ERF European with that tall front panel. I was just thinking about stopping to pour myself a quick café, when along the lane came a very smart DAF loaded with bricks for my neighbours new Farm wall…Bang…there it was, the lorries I was thinking about were operated by Briqueterie Ayrault, from Parthenay, Deux Sevres, and Bonneuil sur Marne, Seine. A very substantial operation, who operated the most varied, and interesting fleet of lorries. The majority being of German origin. Henschel, and Bussing had predominated, but by the end of the `70s then Magirus was king.
Throughout the `60s Bussing were the marque of choice, those imposing LS 11 Fs with their “globetrotter” type couchette cabs, and the 8000 S 13 F @180 hp. But alongside these normal 4x2 units, Ayrault ran , (around 1967), a small number of S 19 210s, unterflur tractor units, with full front and rear air suspension, powered by a 250 hp horizontal 6 cylinder engine, and the new proposed Bussing cabin.
A very individualistic company, Ayrault had run some Berliet TLM 15 litres, but fitted with a rather handsome sleeper cab by the Carrosserie Tirbois, from Niort. Similar in appearance to that Pelpel cab on the second hand Bernard that Fergie was trying to relieve Robert of some cash for its title!
Bussings largest dealer in France was the dynamic Georges Garabedian`s Boulogne-Bilancourt operation . His company was also the importer of the rather fine engineered trailers from Elert of Wuppertal-Sonnbron Germany. Renowned, amongst other features for having brakes that really worked very well indeed! Garabedian was known to be a fearsome opponent in business, and totally unafraid of handling used product, to get his new ones on the road, and he developed a good business in re-powering ex US vehicles with Henschel, of Bussing diesels.
Buzzer, that is a sober question!..and one that I thought a little about today…but I have no answer for you…I could agree with Carryfast, and at one time I would have picked the Dordogne…but its becoming like “little Britain” these days…I like the Var, and have good friends there, but my happiest memories, are in Normandie, and Bretagne, but the valley of the Loire is so restful, but I spent a long time driving a lorry up and down every pass imaginable in the Alps, as well as living there, so perhaps Rhone-Alps…truly I could not answer…anyway, I hope to have a bit longer to live…and I really love it here in Shropshires border lands. Would you like to live there, or stay where you are? Ive found that when you work with the land, well, you stay with the land, it becomes a love affair!
Another memory triggered today, when I was thinking about TRGX, as I mentioned in my last post, and probably of interest to Robert. Back in 77 they were running a few ERF B serie, (perhaps 3, or 4),NHC 250 ■■■■■■■■ 9 speed Fuller RTOO 9509 4x2s. Painted in the flat grey livery, I never really paid any attention to them. Today I wished that I had! I dont think that they were very popular with their drivers, who had come off Henschels or their V10 Mercedes Benz. TRGX had the Henschel agency for some years. When I was at Mack, in Allentown, there was a framed photograph of one of TRGX`s Mack EFT35s in blood red. The one with the Unic type cab, I would have thought that was one model that Mack would have preferred to forget…
On that happy note, Im away for a chilled Bollinger, and listen to the rain thundering down outside…and into my deep ditches…I hope!!
Cheerio for now.
Talking of things French…
The weekend of October 16-17-18th I visited an annual fair in a small and charming town North of Montauban, called Caussade. The event is called TRACTOMANIA and will host any kind of old engines whether stationary, agricultural or whatever. The name says it all really…
I thought I might share some pictures of other epic products of the French automotive industry.
Pleasingly, many of these marques are still with us…
Most of you will recognised a very old version of the deux-chevaux (or Deuce), but who would recognise a SIMCA Aronde these days■■? A lovely little motor back in them days.
This is my tender childhood. My father had two of them, the Renault 6. Though these were the years where Renault indulged in some sub-standard manufacturing, the floor of his second Renault 6 rusted through within 3 years. He was not impressed.
This is one of the last ones, with the modified front grille.
And how about this beauty. Legend!!!
Peugeot 404. Of which the Coupé version was designed by none less than Pininfarina. This sedan version was arguably the model that contributed most to Peugeot’s leadership of the diesel car scene. Powered by the indestructible INDENOR diesel engine. Slow, smokey, noisy, no less than 40 seconds pre-heating needed, but they just never perished. Still many, many of them knocking about in North African Countries.
Then there was this revolutionary design. Arguably one of the first true coupés à la française.
This concept was initially introduced as the Renault 15, then evolved into the below Renault 17, until that in turn became the Renault Fuego.
Last but not least, a truly legendary French workhorse from the 70s and through the very early 80s - the Renault 16.
All but gone now sadly. The Gendarmes had plenty of these…
The TX version had twin Weber carburettors and ut in a really smart road performance back then. Also (one of) the first French cars with central locking.
Oh well… Just a bit of French nostalgia!
Going even further back in French automotive history, some of you may remember the old and trusted Peugeot 203. First introduced I believe in 1949 she was more or less Peugeot’s unique offering, and was sold until 1960.
I also believe she was Peugeot’s last model with “suicide” front doors. She came in a variety of variants including this pick-up model of which many still earn a hard crust in North African Countries, and Madagascar where she was extremely popular.
Of course such local French show couldn’t exist without the iconic DS or Déesse like the one below.
But there is an interesting story about this model and the hydraulic levelling system that made her famous. In fact this system was originally launched on its predecessor the Traction Avant during its two last years of existence! But only on the rear axle and only on the top-end, 6-cyl version. The Citroën 15-6 as she was officially registered.
There was a beautiful example of which I was able to take a few shots.
