I have been driving for a while now, not as long as David, but I have never seen a dual carriageway that continues through a roundabout. I have seen plenty of roundabouts that have centre markings but they are not overtaking lanes.
Some are using the word bullying. I used the word command. I command the road on my motorcycle too. If I ride in the gutter, someone will squeeze past forcing me into a dangerous situation.
If i command the road, I ride in the centre, it gives me chance to steer round manhole covers, debris or diesel spills. I dont indicate for this either.
Wheel Nut:
I have seen plenty of roundabouts that have centre markings but they are not overtaking lanes.
I agree, I’ve never seen the above senario, but would you agree that they are lanes that can be used to pass another vehicle if clear and safe to do so
I used to be surprised when I saw foolish and inconsiderate behaviour by younger drivers on roundabouts.
I’m not anymore, my eyes have been opened to the reasons - they are being taught that way.
Thank goodness some of them have enough commonsense to realise that the safest way is to think for themselves afterwards.
So sorry to hear you are confused Rog, better that than being scrunched by some big trailer wheels though eh?
Spardo:
I used to be surprised when I saw foolish and inconsiderate behaviour by younger drivers on roundabouts.
I’m not anymore, my eyes have been opened to the reasons - they are being taught that way.
Thank goodness some of them have enough commonsense to realise that the safest way is to think for themselves afterwards.
So sorry to hear you are confused Rog, better that than being scrunched by some big trailer wheels though eh?
not confused - just following the safe practices that are taught in roadcraft and followed by the top drivers in the UK
Lets see it from another viewpoint…
I see an artic in the safe confines of the left lane with a right signal on - the right lane has plenty of room for me to safely progress - I cannot - why? - because I do not know if the artic is going to change lanes or not - the right signal MIGHT just be for that - I am now confused by the meaning of that signal and, I am in effect, being forced (‘bullied’ ) to stay behind it but in my own lane.
Here Here
Thats just what i have been saying Rog - If a driver is prevented from making progress by a deliberate wrong signal - He has been bullied.
Spardo:
but I have been talking about deliberate correct signals. That is not bullying, it is informing.
If, as in roundabout 1, a right signal was used whilst on the roundabout, would that be ‘correct’
would it be ‘informing’ others that the driver was about to change lanes
would it prevent others from safely passing on the offside as they might think that the signal was for changing lanes
would that, in effect, be considered as a non-physical ‘bullying’ tactic
Wheel Nut:
It doesnt matter what people “Think” it’s what people “Do” in reaction to a signal.
Signals are there to help, If they are used correctly
So, in the case of roundabout 1, the right signal would be INCORRECT if used as it would make others THINK that the artic MAY be changing lanes and therefore it would prevent them from DOing what they wanted which would be to safely pass it - YES
I think this thread has now lost the plot anyway, but why is so imperative for anyone to want to overtake on a roundabout? Either on the approach to it or until the offending vehicle has taken the exit it required.
When you got squashed on the M6 Rog, did you “think” that could happen?
Wheel Nut:
I think this thread has now lost the plot anyway, but why is so imperative for anyone to want to overtake on a roundabout? Either on the approach to it or until the offending vehicle has taken the exit it required.
When you got squashed on the M6 Rog, did you “think” that could happen?
It is ALWAYS a possibility where there could be a lane change - if the truck in my incident had signalled correctly and with enough time for other road users to react then it would not have occured - I would have had time to get out the [ZB] way
Why put 2 or more lanes on a roundabout if only one vehicle can use it as I THINK you are suggesting - they put multiple lanes on them to assist the free flow of traffic which means that the passing of another vehicle is permitted.
ROG:
Why put 2 or more lanes on a roundabout if only one vehicle can use it as I THINK you are suggesting - they put multiple lanes on them to assist the free flow of traffic which means that the passing of another vehicle is permitted.
Because there is room for 2 cars to pass each other, because there is room for 6 motorcycles to pass each other,
Looking at the highway code.
In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to
pedestrians who may be crossing the approach and exit roads
traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit
traffic which may be straddling lanes or positioned incorrectly
motorcyclists
cyclists and horse riders who may stay in the left-hand lane and signal right if they intend to continue round the roundabout maybe a good idea if heavy or slow vehicles were included here
long vehicles (including those towing trailers) which might have to take a different course approaching or on the roundabout because of their length. Watch out for their signals.
Mini-roundabouts Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Beware of vehicles making U-turns.
Large vehicles. These may need extra road space to turn or to deal with a hazard that you are not able to see. If you are following a large vehicle, such as a bus or articulated lorry, be prepared to stop and wait if it needs room or time to turn.
Large vehicles can block your view. Your ability to see and to plan ahead will be improved if you pull back to increase your separation distance.
Or as a totally radical approach, we could all signal right, do one full circumference of the traffic island and that would keep every one happy, even Owner Drivers
I dont think this debate is really going anywhere because every roundabout is different, every approach is different and new drivers in my opinion are being taught wrongly.
I am not so bold as to suggest I am perfect,
I admit regularly that I am still learning, but the way I was taught in a lorry, in a car and on a motorcycle has held me in good stead for over 30 years.
Been keeping an eye on this thread and will stick my oar in with my own opinions
There are very few “perfect” roundabouts with four roads at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o’clock. However, taking that as a model to sart with, the first exit is left; left signal on approach in the left lane (if more than one!). The second exit is straight ahead, so no signal on approach, left lane and left signal after passing the previous exit Third exit is right, so a right hand signal on approach in the right hand lane if applicable, and a left signal after passing the exit before, whilst also moving towards the outer lane of the roundabout. Obviously if road marking dictate otherwise then they should be observed.
This is a simplistic view of most roundabouts, and I was taught to use the direction sign as a guide; up to 12 o’clock is left, after it is right and 12 o’clock is straight on. It is not “old hat” - it is a simple and straightforward guide to planning how you deal with the “hazard”. From there you have to make decisions based on the actual road layout and give appropriate signals. However, in the view of Roadcraft, give a signal if it will benefit other road users, and equally don’t give confusing or misleading signals. Each roundabout really has to be considered individually and appropriate positioning and signals used.
Coming to the original post, it also depends on exactly where your entry is; it may be at 5 not 6 o’clock and this also needs to be considered. What may be technically staight ahead could actually be a right turn in these circumstances.
In the truck I will use whatever defensive moves I need to stop muppets trying to overtake if the roundabout is not wide enough, even sometimes giving a right signal on the approach if it keeps them out of the way
Overall safety has to be the primary consideration as well as considering your impact on other road users; most car drivers have no idea of the space we need, the poor visibility or the outcome of them being hit by a LGV, so we have to look after them until they are better educated.
gardun:
Been keeping an eye on this thread and will stick my oar in with my own opinions
There are very few “perfect” roundabouts with four roads at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o’clock. However, taking that as a model to sart with, the first exit is left; left signal on approach in the left lane (if more than one!). The second exit is straight ahead, so no signal on approach, left lane and left signal after passing the previous exit Third exit is right, so a right hand signal on approach in the right hand lane if applicable, and a left signal after passing the exit before, whilst also moving towards the outer lane of the roundabout. Obviously if road marking dictate otherwise then they should be observed.
This is a simplistic view of most roundabouts, and I was taught to use the direction sign as a guide; up to 12 o’clock is left, after it is right and 12 o’clock is straight on. It is not “old hat” - it is a simple and straightforward guide to planning how you deal with the “hazard”. From there you have to make decisions based on the actual road layout and give appropriate signals. However, in the view of Roadcraft, give a signal if it will benefit other road users, and equally don’t give confusing or misleading signals. Each roundabout really has to be considered individually and appropriate positioning and signals used.
Coming to the original post, it also depends on exactly where your entry is; it may be at 5 not 6 o’clock and this also needs to be considered. What may be technically staight ahead could actually be a right turn in these circumstances.
In the truck I will use whatever defensive moves I need to stop muppets trying to overtake if the roundabout is not wide enough, even sometimes giving a right signal on the approach if it keeps them out of the way
Overall safety has to be the primary consideration as well as considering your impact on other road users; most car drivers have no idea of the space we need, the poor visibility or the outcome of them being hit by a LGV, so we have to look after them until they are better educated.
Thats what I said, but it took me 74 posts to say it
quote]I dont think this debate is really going anywhere because every roundabout is different, every approach is different and new drivers in my opinion are being taught wrongly.
This gets better and better - today my candidate passed C+E with a clean sheet ( no driving faults ) examiner obviously didn’t think he had been taught wrongly. should i have him back for further training! LOL…
gardun:
Been keeping an eye on this thread and will stick my oar in with my own opinions
There are very few “perfect” roundabouts with four roads at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o’clock. However, taking that as a model to sart with, the first exit is left; left signal on approach in the left lane (if more than one!). The second exit is straight ahead, so no signal on approach, left lane and left signal after passing the previous exit Third exit is right, so a right hand signal on approach in the right hand lane if applicable, and a left signal after passing the exit before, whilst also moving towards the outer lane of the roundabout. Obviously if road marking dictate otherwise then they should be observed.
This is a simplistic view of most roundabouts, and I was taught to use the direction sign as a guide; up to 12 o’clock is left, after it is right and 12 o’clock is straight on. It is not “old hat” - it is a simple and straightforward guide to planning how you deal with the “hazard”. From there you have to make decisions based on the actual road layout and give appropriate signals. However, in the view of Roadcraft, give a signal if it will benefit other road users, and equally don’t give confusing or misleading signals. Each roundabout really has to be considered individually and appropriate positioning and signals used.
Coming to the original post, it also depends on exactly where your entry is; it may be at 5 not 6 o’clock and this also needs to be considered. What may be technically staight ahead could actually be a right turn in these circumstances.
In the truck I will use whatever defensive moves I need to stop muppets trying to overtake if the roundabout is not wide enough, even sometimes giving a right signal on the approach if it keeps them out of the way
Overall safety has to be the primary consideration as well as considering your impact on other road users; most car drivers have no idea of the space we need, the poor visibility or the outcome of them being hit by a LGV, so we have to look after them until they are better educated.
Wheel Nut:
I think this thread has now lost the plot anyway, but why is so imperative for anyone to want to overtake on a roundabout? Either on the approach to it or until the offending vehicle has taken the exit it required.
When you got squashed on the M6 Rog, did you “think” that could happen?
Big D:
[[
This gets better and better - today my candidate passed C+E with a clean sheet ( no driving faults ) examiner obviously didn’t think he had been taught wrongly. should i have him back for further training! LOL…
Which only goes to prove my point, your job is to get people through the test, even if the principles demanded are flawed. Congratulations to you for doing your job as per description - nevertheless I would prefer not to meet your pupils on a roundabout.
- just following the safe practices that are taught in roadcraft and followed by the top drivers in the UK 
