Alas, John has deleted all his posts from the ERF threads, including all 53 pages of the European 1975 thread. Nobody is to blame for this: we can just live in hope that John’s crisis will pass and that he will once again share his experience with us. Robert
There was mention of a 5MV up there somewhere… Also, I spotted a 4MW with smaller lamps, just like a 3 MW, so I would guess that it was actually a 2MW. Based on others’ input and these observations, here is the revised list:
2MV- forward axle, 3MV- set back axle. Original MVs, launched to the world in 1966.
4MV-forward axle, 5MV- set back axle. Updated versions (from when?).
MW (wide) cabs as follows:
2MW- forward axle, 3MW- set back axle.5.75" lamps.
4MW- forward axle, 5MW- set back axle. Updated versions (from what date?) with 7" lamps.
7MW- NGC cab.
It has become apparent to me that ERF made very good use of the Motor Panels cab. In contrast to Guy, Seddon et al, it offered a full range of cabs based on the same structure. It appears that the MV and MW were produced alongside each other from 1968 to 1973 (ish?). Most of the narrow version were day cabs, and most of the wider version were sleepers, which shows that ERF tried to cater for the different markets using a “modular” approach like, for example, DAF from about the same period.
Evening all.
What on earth is going on?
I , and perhaps so many others enjoy each others contributions to these threads. We all learn from each other, gain knowledge, share experiences, and perhaps overall build up a data base that can be enjoyed by future generations.
All our experiences of the industry in all its facets, of life in general, are different…and I think that its great that people share them. Quite often our personal experience may differ from the “official” interpretation…but having worked in the lorry industry as a driver, salesman, marketer,company director, company owner, in Europe and North America, (plus a fairly disasterous bit in North Africa), I can assure you all that what is “common knowledge”, and what is “official recording”, is quite often far from each other…so share our individual experiences…please… because they really do provide an historical context, and do not throw our Teddy Bears out of the cot on some perceived…(and quite often unintended) slight, where non is intended
Or as we Black Country men would exhort…B… Well Grow UP!
Cheerio for now…
I like I suspect so many have enjoyed this particular thread, and the experiences contained within it, so please
Oh and just one point that I have to totally agree with ERF upon…the absolute inaccurate rubbish regarding all sorts of lorries that gets published in the two main, “enthusiasts” magazines. Both by ill informed "reporters/feature writers…and totally unpardonable…by “experts”, journalists/photographers…they really should validate their sources before commiting to print…(yes I cannot spell either)!
Boy does it make me angry when I read some of their garbage…and it will pass into perceived fact unless challenged!
Cheerio for now.
Saviem:
Oh and just one point that I have to totally agree with ERF upon…the absolute inaccurate rubbish regarding all sorts of lorries that gets published in the two main, “enthusiasts” magazines. Both by ill informed "reporters/feature writers…and totally unpardonable…by “experts”, journalists/photographers…they really should validate their sources before commiting to print…(yes I cannot spell either)!Boy does it make me angry when I read some of their garbage…and it will pass into perceived fact unless challenged!
Cheerio for now.
Saviem, I entirely agree that some of the new magazines appear to be cavalier in their approach to transport history; often preferring to go with sensationalism, popular myth, or simply gossip instead of subjecting themselves to the rigour of checking, double-checking and verification.
Alas, this kind of sloppy journalism is carried over from some of the poorer reportage found in mainstream transport trade magazines. M’ost of it, I have to say, is very good but I do wonder how many more times I am going to have to read that the F88 revolutionised UK trucking or that ERFs were only gaffers’ motors that shamefully held back Britain’s progress!
Robert
I think this is RHD, it may have been posted before, apologies if it has but I’m a few pages behind and haven’t got time to scroll through to see.
newmercman:
I think this is RHD, it may have been posted before, apologies if it has but I’m a few pages behind and haven’t got time to scroll through to see. 0
Another pic of this rather impressive beast was posted earlier but yours is better! I wonder if it was tri-drive. Robert
robert1952:
newmercman:
I think this is RHD, it may have been posted before, apologies if it has but I’m a few pages behind and haven’t got time to scroll through to see. 0Another pic of this rather impressive beast was posted earlier but yours is better! I wonder if it was tri-drive. Robert
Don’t think so. The leading axle appears to have a different hub shape to the rear two. Also, it has a raised mudguard, suggesting that it can be raised for light loads or more traction.
Glad I did something right Robert, wouldn’t fancy putting snow chains on it though 
[emoji38]
newmercman:
Glad I did something right Robert, wouldn’t fancy putting snow chains on it though
Look at those clouds. In my opinion, it would be very irresponsible to venture out of the yard without chains, in those conditions.
newmercman:
Glad I did something right Robert, wouldn’t fancy putting snow chains on it though
Snow’d have melted by the time you got that lot chained up in the middle lane of the M6. Robert
[emoji38] [emoji38]
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Let’s not get too carried away with our own enthusiasm. There are countless posts on this forum, from people who owned and drove the vehicles of the 1960s, that say that the F88, when it came to British shores in 1967, was a decade ahead of the vehicles that GB was building, for the home and export markets.
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It’s all to do with marketing, lads: when did you ever see thighs like that in a picture of an ERF ‘European’? Robert
Evening all,
The old Chesnut…the 88…decades ahead…
The lorry that really “finished” the uk industry was not the F88…it was the little F86…a pocket rocket in its day, …wow…192hp, 8 speed synchro, a warm comfortable cab…you could hear the radio…turned on a sixpence, rode like a dream, carried 22 tons plus at 32 tons, and sipped the go go juice…and it was warm in winter, and cool in summer…and you could make it into a sleeper, (for short people), …helped my new wife and I along the way doing nice little conversions…complete with Draylon curtains did that!!!
Couple that to a highly motivated Dealer body…many of them ex hauliers, (just like Jim McKelvie), who really understood that to make money those wheels had to turn…so gave real backup…(unlike the average “plonker” UK Franchisee), who when there was a problem…“operator error” was the cry…did these morons ever know what it was like to work, earn a living…let alone run a business, with a lorry■■?
And, so important to recognise…particularly in the case of ERF. Many of whose Dealers were “significant” hauliers in their own right…when there was a problem, guess whose vehicles were “put right” first"…and it was not the retail customers!!!
But the “component” lorry, ERF, Atkinson, Seddon Guy, , was fairly easy to repair, and there were alternate sources for “bits”, so the operator could get out of trouble by himself…which long term did little to promote the “brand”, and its Franchisees business.
Maybe at this juncture I may comment upon the plethoria of “alleged” varients of Mr ERFs various models. Back in the early 70s the diabolical labour relations, and parlous state of UK manufacturing industry , led to critical delay in component supply…from the most insignificant…to the most vital!
I have little inside knowledge of ERF, only as a competitor, and later customer. But if I parallel my more detailed knowledge of Atkinson, and the effect upon its production of the vagaries of contemporary UK manufacturing industry back in the period in question…Best illustrated by a number of chassis number specific parts books for Borderer tractor units having the same engine…but little else in common…makes really interesting reading…
And Sir Alfred Owens Motor Panels was a most unhappy company back in the 70s…leading to all sorts of compromise in its production…then couple that to the “managerial style” of Sanbach`s finest…and I refer you to the comment by my old friend Gordon Cadwallader, (when rebuilding their ex lhd ERF)…“the buggers should have put the steering wheel in the middle…could never make their minds up”!!!
Oh and back to the F88, the first ever sold by Hartshornes of Walsall, went to dear old Cyril Forrester of Whixall, chrome grill, 8 speed, and he used it for two years unregistered, to cart hay in from the fields…as he had only purchased it to give a young salesman who he liked a bit of luck…But the key is, that the Importers were really pushing at an open door…despite being good at engineering…the UK builders had lost the plot in customer care.
Cheerio for now.
Oh, I forgot… Edwin, Dell, and Roys Calendar had some super Saviem based pictures…far better than the old F10!!!
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