For example driver gets to within an hour of the yard but has run out of hours, general opinion is a driver jumps in the van and swaps with truck driver.
My opinion is = this can’t be done because truck driver is still working/getting paid to return to the yard.
In some cases double manning rules could apply
This isn’t an issue in our business but just thought I’d start the thread out of interest.
The driving hours limit applies to tachograph fitted vehicles. Jumping in a van to get back base is surely no different to jumping into your car to get home?
Depends if you’ve run out of driving hours or overall hours, up to max working hours thats it.
I wouldn’t be sleeping in a tin box half an hour from home, but then i wouldn’t be having the company retrieve me either.
A responsible company would send out 2 drivers in a van,1 to drive the truck,and the other to drive you in the van.It really would depend whether you ran out of duty time or driving time.If it is duty time,ie 15 hour limit then being chauffeured home is the safest option.The company may only pay for the max 15 hours though and perhaps add any extra time onto another less busy day.If you run out of driving time then driving the van yourself I suppose is legal
It can be a bit contentious this. I asked VOSA about this years ago and was told no definitely not (in 2003). Technically you can’t even go to office to hand in paperwork when you get back as this counts as still being other work. They said that you are not free to do as you chose if waiting in layby for scruffy work van to return you to base to take rest, certainly driving work vehicle van be seen as being part of work, even if it were to get back to base. That was when tachos had stop and start locations. I suspect these days without stop start locations other than “UK” and if you don’t have a time sheet on record being paid for the extra, it wouldn’t get picked up and common sense would apply anyway.
I’ll add I didn’t agree with the lack of common sense and had a bit of a debate with them but you know what they’re like, blinkered horses.
How about signing a disclaimer that you from the point of being picked up that you are off duty and waive payment of one hour.
Presuming you are within one hour of base. And you agree to work the time back at a later date
The problem would arise if you drove a company vehicle and were involved in an accident, you’re over hours therefore the one thing you really shouldn’t be doing is driving a company vehicle whatever it is.
If there was a fatal accident then the correct intense investigations and an examination of your digi card or tachogragph records would reveal all.
Can’t see big cheeses allowing themselves to be put in the accessory frame for this.
It’s simple. If you’re out of driving hours (9/10 hours), but still have duty time, it’s fine. It will still have to be recorded manually as other work. If you’re out of duty time (13/15 hours depending on daily rest requirements) you can’t do any other work. This is explained in the drivers hours regulations as a “positioning journey” These are quotes from the regs:
Double manning doesn’t apply unless drivers have been together all day, less the first hour. Again, from the regulations.
‘multi-manning’ means the situation where, during each period of driving between any two consecutive daily rest periods, or between a daily rest period and a weekly rest period, there are at least two drivers in the vehicle to do the driving. For the first hour of multi-manning the presence of another driver or drivers is optional but for the remainder of the period it is compulsory;
When I spoke with the rule whallers it wasn’t the notion of if you were paid or unpaid. They don’t see in scope work as how much/if any pay. They were hung up on this “where the vehicle is nominally based” thing. If away from base out of hours night out or hotel nearby if day cab. They said what’s to stop you being retrieved 100 miles, including the retrieval in your rolling rest, getting back to yard, handing paperwork over, then getting in your car with say only 7 hours left to next report? I said what’s to stop me driving 100 miles after I finish? Their rebuttle was that’s my choice, they can’t rule what I do on my rest but they don’t like the sound of it.
Use of the company’s vehicle could be disclaimed as being off duty that you have the owners consent to use their vehicle and utilise your own insurance.
■■■■■■00:
Use of the company’s vehicle could be disclaimed as being off duty that you have the owners consent to use their vehicle and utilise your own insurance.
Not if you’re using it for any work purpose. Traveling to or from a company vehicle at the beginning or end of your shift, even in your own car, is other work. It’s known as “fulfilling an obligation to an employer”
I have to agree with Sayersy 's post
within 15 hours retrieval ok over 15 hours = no
Muckspreader:
I have to agree with Sayersy 's post
within 15 hours retrieval ok over 15 hours = no
yep … but a driver could come out with the firms van pool car and as long as your freely able to dispose of your time you can do as you want … ( the same as you finish in the yard on 15 hrs you use your own car to DO AS YOU WANT freely dispose of your time )
there is a difference between using your own car to get to work and using a work van to save you from being parked up in a layby an hour from base - getting to and from the trucks regular parking place is not classified as other work, getting to and from an irregular parking place is other work.
milodon:
there is a difference between using your own car to get to work and using a work van to save you from being parked up in a layby an hour from base - getting to and from the trucks regular parking place is not classified as other work, getting to and from an irregular parking place is other work.
not if you can use the van as your own car
it’s not the vehicle you use, it’s the place the lorry is parked at that matters.
milodon:
it’s not the vehicle you use, it’s the place the lorry is parked at that matters.
well who knows 
where it was parked as of yet the tacho doesn’t have the gps coordinate’s implanted in it 
of course if you Miles from home then that’s something else
I did some work for a plating company and often the tachos didn’t work. The company said platers were exempt. To cover my backside I always kept a record. One of them told me Vosa pulled one driver and because he had no proof what he’d worked so they parked him up. He called someone to swap and got a bit lary with Vosa they waited for swap driver and told first driver he couldn’t drive the car back they would need another driver. They both got lary so they asked for his driving record and parked him up too. Moral of story keep records and don’t get lary
Legal Option: - If you are out of duty time then it doesn’t matter who owns the vehicle, doesn’t matter if it’s a car, a van or a bicycle, doesn’t matter who drives the vehicle, doesn’t matter if you sign a waiver. The vehicle isn’t at it’s base so any time you spend travelling to the base from the vehicle is other work so you either stay where you are and have a night out or the truck stays where it is and you go home, not via base, then return and resume work from that point after daily rest period. This was all determined years ago in the Skills Coaches Case.
Real World Option:- Your choice.
nick2008:
milodon:
it’s not the vehicle you use, it’s the place the lorry is parked at that matters.well who knows
of course if you Miles from home then that’s something else
If you run out of duty time, then get rescued, will you want paying? Enforcement officers will ask for time sheets if they suspect an offence has been committed.