In practice i doubt anyone in authority would be even slightly interested in this…until something goes wrong.
If the authorities were genuinly bothered about excess hours leading to tired drivers, they’d have banned the use of POA long ago, now that would be a move in the right direction and would work for drivers, ending these 70 hour weeks at a stroke.
Coffeeholic:
Legal Option: - If you are out of duty time then it doesn’t matter who owns the vehicle, doesn’t matter if it’s a car, a van or a bicycle, doesn’t matter who drives the vehicle, doesn’t matter if you sign a waiver. The vehicle isn’t at it’s base so any time you spend travelling to the base from the vehicle is other work so you either stay where you are and have a night out or the truck stays where it is and you go home, not via base, then return and resume work from that point after daily rest period. This was all determined years ago in the Skills Coaches Case.Real World Option:- Your choice.
I’m not sure that’s true. The regulations say nothing about where you are traveling from, but focus on where you are traveling to. The skills coaches case specifically refers to drivers travelling to and from home, to take over coaches at a place other than the vehicles normal operating centre. It’s difficult to pick through the legal stuff, but you can read the court judgement here
old.eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ … 297:EN:PDF
Juddian:
In practice i doubt anyone in authority would be even slightly interested in this…until something goes wrong.If the authorities were genuinly bothered about excess hours leading to tired drivers, they’d have banned the use of POA long ago, now that would be a move in the right direction and would work for drivers, ending these 70 hour weeks at a stroke.
True. POA was introduced at the request of people like the RHA and FTA to protect the interests of Operators, regardless of public safety.
Skills coaches judgment was about drivers failing to record the travelling time as other work, and it found that they should have been.
Therefore it shows that travelling time is other work and if your 15 is up, however you travel from where that vehicle is, unless it meets the specified criteria, you are committing an infringement.
sayersy:
Coffeeholic:
Legal Option: - If you are out of duty time then it doesn’t matter who owns the vehicle, doesn’t matter if it’s a car, a van or a bicycle, doesn’t matter who drives the vehicle, doesn’t matter if you sign a waiver. The vehicle isn’t at it’s base so any time you spend travelling to the base from the vehicle is other work so you either stay where you are and have a night out or the truck stays where it is and you go home, not via base, then return and resume work from that point after daily rest period. This was all determined years ago in the Skills Coaches Case.Real World Option:- Your choice.
I’m not sure that’s true. The regulations say nothing about where you are traveling from, but focus on where you are traveling to. The skills coaches case specifically refers to drivers travelling to and from home, to take over coaches at a place other than the vehicles normal operating centre. It’s difficult to pick through the legal stuff, but you can read the court judgement here
old.eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ … 297:EN:PDF
I think both the judgement in this case and VOSA publication make it clear.
From the above case.
22 The defendants in the main proceedings contend that a driver who travels from
his home to the pick-up point for a vehicle, freely choosing how he travels, may
freely dispose of his time, with the result that the time thus spent must be
regarded as forming part of rest as defined in Article 1(5) of Regulation
No 3820/85.23 **That interpretation is unacceptable. A driver who goes to a specific place, other**[/u]
than the undertaking’s operating centre, indicated to him by his employer in order
to take over and drive a vehicle is satisfying an obligation towards his employer.
During that journey, therefore, he does not freely dispose of his time.
[/quote]
from VOSA publications on Drivers hours.
> Travelling time
> Where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver’s home nor at the
> employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based but is at a separate location, time
> spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest
> or break, unless the driver is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette.
What would I do?
Well if I was on day work and it was a one off, then I’d get home and hope I’d get away with it, but to be honest unless a real disaster happened I doubt anybody would take much interest in it.
But if it happens regularly, then quite obviously the jobs are being planned in such a way it’s unrealistic for them to be done in a shift and if the company is that poorly run then it’s probably poorly run in other ways and will probably be pinging the DVSA radar sooner rather than later.
Double post 