Just a quick question about something I’ve never encountered before.
I arrive at my delivery depot and hand the lorry to the shunter driver so that I can take my break and he can change the boxes and a-frame over (wag & drag), so I’m all set to return after the 45 min break.
If I leave my tacho in, it will obviously register HIS movements with the lorry and nullify my break. So is it legal to remove the tacho for the 45 min break and to simply add a manual entry and explanation on the back of the chart? I’m guessing this is correct, but thought it worth checking.
Very shortly I’ll be getting a new DAF with a digi tacho. Will I just remove the card for the break and replace it once the shunter is finished with the lorry? Make a manual entry on the printout?
To my mind this should be treated the same as if you had finished work for the day, or actually changing vehicles - you would remove your tachograph or digi card.
When you replaced it I would fill in the reverse as if I had changed vehicles, there would be a few k’s difference anyway.
i would have put the disk into 2nd driver so that it recorded a break and i would have wrote an explanation on the back but im unsure what is the correct thing to do here.
I’m sure that pulling the card and adding a manual entry is ok, but I asked a similar question to VOSA and the reply was to also get a letter of intent from your employer, stating that you are on break whilst the truck is being used by the shunter. It just gives you a bit more cover if you are stopped and asked why the truck has been moved and your card has been removed. It also might save you having to do a print out every night.
I’d go with what Smart Mart and muckles said and remove the chart then make a manual entry on the back, the vehicle is going to be used but not by you so I can’t see how you can leave the chart in, technically I believe you need permission to remove the chart but the regulations don’t say who can give permission so if you can get written permission so much the better but personally I’d have no problem with removing the chart anyway.
I would go with what was alread said. You cannot use the double manning slot as you are not double manning, the rules for actually carrying the second man are quite stringent.
Take the digi card out after putting it onto rest. have your break and then put back your card, then it will ask you if you want to do manual entry. “yes” and then enter start and finish times of break. There should not be a need to print a record although it may be easier if you were in France etc.
merc0447:
i would have put the disk into 2nd driver so that it recorded a break
Second driver position won’t record break when the vehicle is moving.
it does a driver trainer took over for me when we where stuck in traffic and we swaped graphs over so he drove and i took 15 mins before the 6 hour rule got me ,only done it the once and never got an infringment for it and our site is pretty strict on infringment keeping.
merc0447:
i would have put the disk into 2nd driver so that it recorded a break
Second driver position won’t record break when the vehicle is moving.
it does a driver trainer took over for me when we where stuck in traffic and we swaped graphs over so he drove and i took 15 mins before the 6 hour rule got me ,only done it the once and never got an infringment for it and our site is pretty strict on infringment keeping.
You are confusing the WTD with the Drivers Hours Rules. You are also talking out of your bum.
pull your card, get the shunter to fill out a card, you will need a copy of his card, a manuel entry on yours along side the copy of his will keep you legal.
Or.
Don’t bother with any of the above. Stop short of your depot, take 45 minute break, turn up at the yard, let the shunter do your work and take another break.
merc0447:
i would have put the disk into 2nd driver so that it recorded a break
Second driver position won’t record break when the vehicle is moving.
it does a driver trainer took over for me when we where stuck in traffic and we swaped graphs over so he drove and i took 15 mins before the 6 hour rule got me ,only done it the once and never got an infringment for it and our site is pretty strict on infringment keeping.
You are confusing the WTD with the Drivers Hours Rules. You are also talking out of your bum.
well thank you mr wheel nut weather it be WTD or DHR it still recorded the break that’s all im saying
A break is any period which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation. A break may be taken in a moving vechicle, provided no other work is undertaken.
merc0447:
i would have put the disk into 2nd driver so that it recorded a break
Second driver position won’t record break when the vehicle is moving.
it does a driver trainer took over for me when we where stuck in traffic and we swaped graphs over so he drove and i took 15 mins before the 6 hour rule got me ,only done it the once and never got an infringment for it and our site is pretty strict on infringment keeping.
You are confusing the WTD with the Drivers Hours Rules. You are also talking out of your bum.
well thank you mr wheel nut weather it be WTD or DHR it still recorded the break that’s all im saying
To be fair to you merc 0447, the scenario is a common one and has already been answered.
If the driver is using a digital card, then using the second slot will record other work when the truck is moved, he could select POA but that is not a break. A non driving crew member could use POA to satisfy his 15 minutes WTD break.
If the driver is using an analogue machine, there is nothing simpler than removing the chart, making a manual line entry on the back of the chart and take the chart with him to the canteen. There is no need to use second man slots, the shunter will not respect the correct positions of the mode switch, he is doing his job,
merc0447:
i would have put the disk into 2nd driver so that it recorded a break
Second driver position won’t record break when the vehicle is moving.
How does that work if double manning as I THOUGHT that the second driver could take/record a break whilst the other is driving - perhaps I got this wrong - again
merc0447:
i would have put the disk into 2nd driver so that it recorded a break
Second driver position won’t record break when the vehicle is moving.
How does that work if double manning as I THOUGHT that the second driver could take/record a break whilst the other is driving - perhaps I got this wrong - again
This isnt double manning Rog, the rules are here in the Goods Vehicle Regulations rather than the regulations applying to passenger vehicles
merc0447:
i would have put the disk into 2nd driver so that it recorded a break
Second driver position won’t record break when the vehicle is moving.
How does that work if double manning as I THOUGHT that the second driver could take/record a break whilst the other is driving - perhaps I got this wrong - again
It works because you can tell which position the card has been in, so as the 2nd driver is allowed to take a break on the move VOSA and the others count it as break.
merc0447:
i would have put the disk into 2nd driver so that it recorded a break
Second driver position won’t record break when the vehicle is moving.
How does that work if double manning as I THOUGHT that the second driver could take/record a break whilst the other is driving - perhaps I got this wrong - again [/quote
i dont knw ROG we where not double manning that day, i just got into trouble with the hours because of heavy traffic on the motorway and the driver trainer wrote out his tacho and we switch them round as the rule i have pointed out on DFT website would indicate that this is allowed but it is a confusing area for many.
But dont you find a lot of rules and reg’s reagarding professional driving are confusing and are in a very grey area - for me it is anyway.
merc0447:
i would have put the disk into 2nd driver so that it recorded a break
Second driver position won’t record break when the vehicle is moving.
How does that work if double manning as I THOUGHT that the second driver could take/record a break whilst the other is driving - perhaps I got this wrong - again
Second driver can take a break while the vehicle is being driven by the other driver, breaks can be taken in a moving vehicle but daily rests cannot. The tacho unit will not record break for the second man position, unless it is a really old tacho unit, which is what I presume must have been in the training vehicle merc0447 is referring to. The chance of driving a vehicle fitted with one of those head units in normal work circumstances is remote these days.
The second man position will record POA and VOSA state they will assume the first 45 minutes of POA recorded in the second man position is actually rest in double manning operations.
Edited to add this note.
This does not apply to single manning when POA will be treated as POA and the first 45 minutes will NOT be assumed to be break. In single manned operations if you want to record break you have to move the mode switch, despite the fact the digi tacho counts POA as break just to confuse things.
merc0447:
But dont you find a lot of rules and reg’s reagarding professional driving are confusing and are in a very grey area - for me it is anyway.
Probably be less confusing if you knew how a tacho unit worked and you read and understood the correct rules for goods vehicles, and you knew what was double manning and what wasn’t. Just a thought.
