You cant just double man a vehicle at will, the double man team must be together in the truck after the first hour.
‘Multi-manning’ is the situation where, during each period of driving between any two consecutive
daily rest periods, or between a daily rest period and a weekly rest period, there are at least two drivers
in the vehicle to do the driving. For the first hour of multi-manning the presence of another driver or
drivers is optional, but for the remainder of the period it is compulsory. This allows for a vehicle to
depart from its operating centre and collect a second driver along the way, providing that this is done
within one hour of the first driver starting work.
A suspicious mind might say that merc 0447 ran out of time and shoved a blank card in, then got his driver trainer to put his name on it later stranger things have happened in transport
merc0447:
But dont you find a lot of rules and reg’s reagarding professional driving are confusing and are in a very grey area - for me it is anyway.
Probably be less confusing if you knew how a tacho unit worked and you read and understood the correct rules for goods vehicles, and you knew what was double manning and what wasn’t. Just a thought.
I think what we driver need is some sort of continuation training, so we don’t forget things some hardly use like double manning regs and to keep us up to date with new technology and rules and regs.
I don’t know maybe 35 hours training every 5 years, just a thought.
I think what we driver need is some sort of continuation training, so we don’t forget things some hardly use like double manning regs and to keep us up to date with new technology and rules and regs.
The Drivers CPC is designed to do exactly that…so why is everyone so against it then
I think what we driver need is some sort of continuation training, so we don’t forget things some hardly use like double manning regs and to keep us up to date with new technology and rules and regs.
The Drivers CPC is designed to do exactly that…so why is everyone so against it then
Pat
Because it could cost drivers hundreds of pounds, because it will do nothing to raise the profile of the driver, because it’s been badly thought out, because it’s obviously been thought up for the benefit of the EU bureaucrats rather than the benefit of the UK transport industry, because it’s an expensive and time consuming way of learning the regulations, because you don’t necessarily have to learn anything, because it’s an opportunity to do something for the transport industry that’s being lost, because sitting in a classroom for 35 hours by itself will do nothing for anyone except the people who are paid to instruct, because…
Hopefully the following will answer a few points raised;
If somebody else is going to use the vehicle whilst you are having your break, the best way of dealing with things is to remove the chart / card. When you have finished your break and regain control of the vehicle reinsert the chart / card. If using charts, make a manual entry on the rear of your chart to show the break and an explanatory note covering what has happened won’t go amiss. If using a card, when you put the card back in the VU make the manual entry. Should you make a Horlicks of the manual entry, then make one on the back of a printout for that day.
Modular tachos (look like cd players and use charts), the VDO 1319 (found in some Mercs) and all digitals will always record POA to the second man record when a vehicle is in motion. So not really a lot of good putting your chart / card in the 2nd man position whilst the shunter drives the vehicle. The Actia 028, VDO 1318 and Stoneridge 2300 (round tachos stuck in the dash and have a speedo and clock straight in front of you) will record break to the 2nd man chart when the vehicle is moving. If you want a fuller explanation of this try the letters page in the November issue of ‘Trucking.’
For the avoidance of doubt; for those involved in a ‘genuine’ double manned journey, it is quite legal to take a break in a moving vehicle. However rest can only be taken on a moving vehicle if it is either a ferry or train and there is access to a bunk or couchette.
The insertion of a fresh chart made out in the driver trainers name and the continuation of the journey sounds suspiciously like the creation of a false record. Unless the two drivers swapped places. If, as the post suggests, the delay was due to traffic congestion following an RTC, why not drive to the nearest available parking and swap drivers (and charts) there? After all, provided the reasons for the departure are recorded on the chart / printout that would be perfectly legal.
If a shunter does not drive on a road open to the public, they do not need to keep a tacho record. Might not be a bad idea if they kept a record of which vehicles they did drive and when. Then, if the nice man from VOSA calls, the records can be produced and he will probably be a far happier chappie
del949:
Surely you will have to remove chart/ card etc so that shunter can put his card in.
ALL driving, wether on road or not must be recorded.
sorry Del thats not quite right,
If your journey is entirely off road then tacho/eu rules do not apply
If part of your journey is off road then tacho/eu rules apply
For a shunter all of his work usually would be off road, therefore no card is required
For a driver, if he is asked to move something from one part of the depot to another without going onto the public road then that journey is out of scope.
not wanting to argue on this.
I thought that the law was amended a few years ago to require ALL driving time to be recorded.
certainly, where I work, on days when i am shunting and never leave the yard I have to put in a tacho/card, and have on occasion been pulled for a discrepancy. usally driving whilst on break (allowing tacho to overide the break setting instead of changing it)
granted this may just be a company rule, but I am sure I read something about this in refernce to tipper drivers on sites.
del949:
not wanting to argue on this.
I thought that the law was amended a few years ago to require ALL driving time to be recorded.
certainly, where I work, on days when i am shunting and never leave the yard I have to put in a tacho/card, and have on occasion been pulled for a discrepancy. usally driving whilst on break (allowing tacho to overide the break setting instead of changing it)
granted this may just be a company rule, but I am sure I read something about this in refernce to tipper drivers on sites.
Rules on Drivers Hours and Tachographs:
Note: Driving time includes any off-road parts of a journey where the rest of that journey is made on
the public highway. Journeys taking place entirely off road would be considered as ’other work’.
So, for example, any time spent driving off road between a parking/rest area and a loading bay prior to
travelling on a public road would constitute driving time, but it would be regarded as other work where
an entire load is picked up and deposited on the same off-road site.
I know what your saying as I thought the same, but iirc it was Coffee who set me straight
If your driving off road all day you don’t even need a car license let alone C+E or a Tacho. However you need to record it as OW if yopu drive under EU rules on any day that week.
It should at least put an end to posts like this one where everyone and his wife have a different opinion on what is the ‘correct’ way to do something
7 hours a year sat in a classroom suddenly becomes very attractive then
Almost all decent firms will pay for the training for their employees and if Agencies have anything about them tthey will as well, to encourage drivers to stay with them.
The main problem with the drivers CPC is it represents change for 7 hours per year and we all know how drivers kick against anything changing, don’t we?
bloodoodle:
It should at least put an end to posts like this one where everyone and his wife have a different opinion on what is the ‘correct’ way to do something
7 hours a year sat in a classroom suddenly becomes very attractive then
Almost all decent firms will pay for the training for their employees and if Agencies have anything about them tthey will as well, to encourage drivers to stay with them.
The main problem with the drivers CPC is it represents change for 7 hours per year and we all know how drivers kick against anything changing, don’t we?
Pat
bloodoodle, Do you really believe that, how many times do you see the same questions being asked over and over again, I’m not knocking anyone here but the fact is that many people tend to study only when they have to, the fact is that many people pay only lip service to anything until it affects them personally.
I’ll wager that five or six years from now you will see exactly the same questions being asked and as many different answers as there are now
You place far to much faith in agencies, especially now when there’s a shortage of work
I can’t speak for anyone else but I’m certainly not against change, I am however against change that doesn’t achieve anything.
I fail to see how having to sit in a classroom for a total of 35 hours every five years will achieve much, some of us will try to make the most of it but I’m afraid many probably won’t.
I’d have more faith in the Driver CPC making a difference if it was at least tested, think about it, what can you learn in a classroom that you can’t learn at home at your own pace.
My opinion is and has been for some time that we should be able to study at home if we choose and then take a supervised test, that’s the only way to ensure that what is intended to be learned is actually learned, but only time will tell weather this change achieves anything or not
del949:
not wanting to argue on this.
I thought that the law was amended a few years ago to require ALL driving time to be recorded.
certainly, where I work, on days when i am shunting and never leave the yard I have to put in a tacho/card, and have on occasion been pulled for a discrepancy. usally driving whilst on break (allowing tacho to overide the break setting instead of changing it)
granted this may just be a company rule, but I am sure I read something about this in refernce to tipper drivers on sites.
What you say is probably a company rule or your bosses don’t know the regulations
As MADBAZ said if a journey is entirely off road then it can be classed as off-road driving and out of scope of EU regulations.
If any part of the journey is on roads open to the public then all driving on that journey is in-scope.
think about it, what can you learn in a classroom that you can’t learn at home at your own pace.
Nothing…but the point is the majority certainly wouldn’t bother if they didn’t have to
Pat
Sorry but you’ve just stated my case for me
If you don’t think people will bother learning anything new if they don’t have to why would sitting in a classroom make a difference, the point is that with a supervised test people would have to think about things rather than just paying lip service whilst trying not to look too bored, the other alternative would be to stop driving HGVs
stranger things have happened in transport 
