Question about 3 hour break and spread

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

OllieNotts:
Well after being careful for the last three weeks I’ve gone and [zb] up royally and put my card in one minute before my 9 was up :frowning:
I forgot to take it out last night and took it out at 2104 and put my card back in at 0604 this morning and did a print off for yesterday’s driving hours and it says I finished at 2105 ffs so now I’m due an infringement and if pulled today no doubt more [zb]! Really ■■■■■■ off with myself this morning, wrote on the printout I finished at 2100 but doubt it would make any difference they prob won’t see it as a genuine mistake. ■■■■■■■■.

Getting an infringment would depend on what mode tacho was in when you removed it, if it was on break you will be ok imho.

2

weeto:

OllieNotts:
Well after being careful for the last three weeks I’ve gone and [zb] up royally and put my card in one minute before my 9 was up :frowning:
I forgot to take it out last night and took it out at 2104 and put my card back in at 0604 this morning and did a print off for yesterday’s driving hours and it says I finished at 2105 ffs so now I’m due an infringement and if pulled today no doubt more [zb]! Really ■■■■■■ off with myself this morning, wrote on the printout I finished at 2100 but doubt it would make any difference they prob won’t see it as a genuine mistake. ■■■■■■■■.

Getting an infringment would depend on what mode tacho was in when you removed it, if it was on break you will be ok imho.

Keep Schtum for another 7 weeks and you will be OK :stuck_out_tongue:

Unless it is a recurring theme or that of fraud or false records :exclamation:

3

Wheel Nut:

weeto:

OllieNotts:
Well after being careful for the last three weeks I’ve gone and [zb] up royally and put my card in one minute before my 9 was up :frowning:
I forgot to take it out last night and took it out at 2104 and put my card back in at 0604 this morning and did a print off for yesterday’s driving hours and it says I finished at 2105 ffs so now I’m due an infringement and if pulled today no doubt more [zb]! Really ■■■■■■ off with myself this morning, wrote on the printout I finished at 2100 but doubt it would make any difference they prob won’t see it as a genuine mistake. ■■■■■■■■.

Getting an infringment would depend on what mode tacho was in when you removed it, if it was on break you will be ok imho.

Keep Schtum for another 7 weeks and you will be OK :stuck_out_tongue:

Unless it is a recurring theme or that of fraud or false records :exclamation:

Just so we all know,when I download the info off of my digicard it still shows from when I first used it back in August!What I’m saying is that the info isn’t overwritten as soon as we are led to believe.

4

ShropsBri:
Just so we all know,when I download the info off of my digicard it still shows from when I first used it back in August!What I’m saying is that the info isn’t overwritten as we are led to believe.

The data is over-written when the memory chip on the driver card is full which is likely to be after several months of daily use :wink:

Confusion has arisen because the card is designed to hold at least 28 days of data, many people have taken this to mean that the data will be over-written after 28 days which as you now know is not the case.

5

ShropsBri:

Wheel Nut:

weeto:

OllieNotts:
Well after being careful for the last three weeks I’ve gone and [zb] up royally and put my card in one minute before my 9 was up :frowning:
I forgot to take it out last night and took it out at 2104 and put my card back in at 0604 this morning and did a print off for yesterday’s driving hours and it says I finished at 2105 ffs so now I’m due an infringement and if pulled today no doubt more [zb]! Really ■■■■■■ off with myself this morning, wrote on the printout I finished at 2100 but doubt it would make any difference they prob won’t see it as a genuine mistake. ■■■■■■■■.

Getting an infringment would depend on what mode tacho was in when you removed it, if it was on break you will be ok imho.

Keep Schtum for another 7 weeks and you will be OK :stuck_out_tongue:

Unless it is a recurring theme or that of fraud or false records :exclamation:

Just so we all know,when I download the info off of my digicard it still shows from when I first used it back in August!What I’m saying is that the info isn’t overwritten as soon as we are led to believe.

Depending on how many mode changes you have during a shift it can hold getting on for a year of data. The time bar on hour’s offences is six months though.

6

Coffeeholic:
The time bar on hour’s offences is six months though.

Exactly my point, :wink: well not really I was just taking the ■■■■ about a thread revival.

7

For example you have a 3 hour or more break in one day you can do a 15 spread and it doesn’t count as one of your three extension yes?
Well does it apply if you tot up the 3 hours like 45,22,3,2,55,24,6 etc if it all adds up to over 3 or does it have to be in one hit?

Also I’m getting confused with the 15 spread means you’ve already used a 9 off, I think I have it is this ok
Mon 0500-1915 14.25 hours
Tues 0700-2100 14 hours
Weds 0600-1900 13 hours
Thur 0600-2100 15 hours
Fri 0600-1900 13 hours
Sat ■■? Parked up for now as I’m taking load to drop in morning. Now I’ve been out all week and extended all spreads of duty but only reduced rest twice so can I start tomorrow at 0400 or does it have to be 0600 as I’ve already used three 15 hour spreads? I think I can’t but would like it clarifying if I’m right or in fact wrong and I can reduce even after all spreads are used.
Hope that makes sense :laughing:
Started a new tramping job last week and really didn’t think I’d get so much work, not complaining as it’s hourly pay but the brain doesn’t always function when all I do is work sleep and spend all day thinking :smiley:

8

OllieNotts:
For example you have a 3 hour or more break in one day you can do a 15 spread and it doesn’t count as one of your three extension yes?

I think you mean reductions, it doesn’t count as a reduced rest period because you haven’t reduced your rest, you have increased it to at least 12 hours.

OllieNotts:
Well does it apply if you tot up the 3 hours like 45,22,3,2,55,24,6 etc if it all adds up to over 3 or does it have to be in one hit?

One unbroken period of at least 3 hours.

OllieNotts:
Also I’m getting confused with the 15 spread means you’ve already used a 9 off, I think I have it is this ok
Mon 0500-1915 14.25 hours
Tues 0700-2100 14 hours
Weds 0600-1900 13 hours
Thur 0600-2100 15 hours
Fri 0600-1900 13 hours
Sat ■■? Parked up for now as I’m taking load to drop in morning. Now I’ve been out all week and extended all spreads of duty but only reduced rest twice so can I start tomorrow at 0400 or does it have to be 0600 as I’ve already used three 15 hour spreads? I think I can’t but would like it clarifying if I’m right or in fact wrong and I can reduce even after all spreads are used.

You have reduced 3 times. Monday night, despite the fact there was 11.75 hours rest between finishing work and resuming on Tuesday was a reduced rest because only 9.75 hours fell within the 24 hour period which started when you began work at 05:00 Monday.

You cannot start before 06:00 tomorrow morning and must not have a shift of more than 13 hours tomorrow.

As soon as your shift is more than 13 hours, even by one minute, you are using a reduced rest, unless you have had an unbroken period of at least 3 hours during the shift. This is because the shift and teh rest period must fit into a 24-hour period so-

Shift 13 hours + rest 11 hours = 24 hours.

Shift 13 hours and 1 minute + rest 10 hours and 59 minutes = 24 hours,. Rest in 24-hour period less than 11 hours = reduced daily rest used.

9

Thanks, I thought it was that but always best to check. Wasn’t sure on the 3 hour rule though, and I hope to ■■■ I’m not doing anywhere near 13 tomorrow I’ve had enough this week :laughing:

10

Hello me again in need of help…again please.
Shifts thus far
Mon 0630-1900 12.5
Tue 0500-2000 15(reduced rest)
Wed 0530-1945(reduced rest)
Thur…can start 0445 with 9 off which I prob won’t but it will sti be reduced I.e 0600 so can I do a 15 hour spread tomorrow? As all my reduced rests are used I’m confused as to wether or not I can, but if I stay within 13 I know(think) I can only have 11 off and use a 13 on Friday right?

11

OllieNotts:
Hello me again in need of help…again please.
Shifts thus far
Mon 0630-1900 12.5
Tue 0500-2000 15(reduced rest)
Wed 0530-1945(reduced rest)
Thur…can start 0445 with 9 off which I prob won’t but it will sti be reduced I.e 0600 so can I do a 15 hour spread tomorrow? As all my reduced rests are used I’m confused as to wether or not I can, but if I stay within 13 I know(think) I can only have 11 off and use a 13 on Friday right?

You can do a ‘15’ or reduced daily rest on thursday if you have only had 2 reduced daily rests since your last weekly rest period
If you do take the reduced on Thursday then you are correct in saying that Friday must be a full daily rest

12

Herro again, thanks for that but I chose to stay in bed today :smiley:
Now then I started at 0645 so had 11 off, I know if I work over 15 today it automatically counts as a reduced rest so can I have 9 off tonight and resume tomorrow for my last 13?
I know I should probably understand it more but this tramping job I’m a lot busier and my brain can’t seem to cope with stuff that used to seem so simple :laughing:

On a side note do you know the fine for doing more then 90 hours driving over two weeks is? Or is it not enforced like the 48 hour working week isn’t? I’ve only got 8.5 hours left till my 90 is up and planners had me down for a 500 mile round trip starting tonight so I’ve had to refuse and lose out on overtime :frowning:

13

OllieNotts:
Herro again, thanks for that but I chose to stay in bed today :smiley:
Now then I started at 0645 so had 11 off, I know if I work over 15 today it automatically counts as a reduced rest so can I have 9 off tonight and resume tomorrow for my last 13?
I know I should probably understand it more but this tramping job I’m a lot busier and my brain can’t seem to cope with stuff that used to seem so simple :laughing:

On a side note do you know the fine for doing more then 90 hours driving over two weeks is? Or is it not enforced like the 48 hour working week isn’t? I’ve only got 8.5 hours left till my 90 is up and planners had me down for a 500 mile round trip starting tonight so I’ve had to refuse and lose out on overtime :frowning:

Prohibition and £60 to £200 fixed penalty

14

Ouch! I’ll be keeping a very close eye on my driving hours from now on then I don’t think I’ve ever drove enough in two full weeks for it to matter.

15

OllieNotts:
Herro again, thanks for that but I chose to stay in bed today :smiley:
Now then I started at 0645 so had 11 off, I know if I work over 15 today it automatically counts as a reduced rest so can I have 9 off tonight and resume tomorrow for my last 13?

Simple answer = yes

Your shift prior to this was Wed 0530-1945(reduced rest) and you started at 0645 thursday (today) so although you had 11 hours off only 9hrs + 45 mins counted as rest for the regs

You had one more reduced daily rest on tuesday which now makes two so far

If you had a reduced thursday (today), which now makes the maximum of 3 reduced daily rests, then you must have a full daily rest friday (tomorrow)

16

Thanks a lot, I’ve had to reduce tomorrow as didn’t get done till 2100 so back in at 0600 for an easy day as I only have 7 hours left on my fortnightly spread which is good for me as it means less work :smiley:

17

Well after being careful for the last three weeks I’ve gone and ■■■■■■ up royally and put my card in one minute before my 9 was up :frowning:
I forgot to take it out last night and took it out at 2104 and put my card back in at 0604 this morning and did a print off for yesterday’s driving hours and it says I finished at 2105 ffs so now I’m due an infringement and if pulled today no doubt more ■■■■! Really ■■■■■■ off with myself this morning, wrote on the printout I finished at 2100 but doubt it would make any difference they prob won’t see it as a genuine mistake. ■■■■■■■■.

18

OllieNotts:
doubt it would make any difference they prob won’t see it as a genuine mistake.

I bet VOSA will if it is a one off :smiley:

19

I thought I understood the rules but what on earth is ‘spread’ let alone a ‘15 spread’? :confused:

Is this old terminology from earlier rules?

I understand that it is 11 hours rest in 24 but can be reduced to 9 no more than three times per week. And the daily rest can also be 3 + 12. What is ‘spread’ and ‘15’? I can see it is related to 9 and 24.

Confused :cry:

N

20

neil1024:
I thought I understood the rules but what on earth is ‘spread’ let alone a ‘15 spread’? :confused:

Is this old terminology from earlier rules?

I understand that it is 11 hours rest in 24 but can be reduced to 9 no more than three times per week. And the daily rest can also be 3 + 12. What is ‘spread’ and ‘15’? I can see it is related to 9 and 24.

Confused :cry:

N

There’s nothing in the regulations about “spread” but what’s meant by it is “spread-over” which is also not mentioned in the regulations, ie the time from start to end of the shift.

So if you started at 06:00 and finished at 21:00 you would have done a 15 hour spread-over.

The daily rest period can be reduced to no less than 9 hours 3 times between weekly rest periods not 3 times a week :wink:

A regular daily rest period is 11 consecutive hours of rest, a split daily rest period is 3 hours during the shift and 9 hours at the end of the shift making a total of 12 hours rest, it must all be within the 24 hour period from start of shift.

There is no 3 + 12 :wink:

A “15” is the way some people refer to the length of shift when you have a reduced daily rest period, 15 hour shift plus 9 hour reduced daily rest = 24 hour period from start of the shift.