Political discussions...

Ben Wallace (Ben Wallace (politician) - Wikipedia) believes otherwise
The same story can be seen at:
UK now in Vladimir Putin's crosshairs as former defence sec warns 'he's coming for us' | Politics | News | Express.co.uk
or
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/vladimir-putin-is-coming-must-33547556
or
Putin will soon turn his war machine on Britain

lord ali donates 20,000 to starmmer for suits and glasses and gets a pass to no. 10 so he can attend political meetings.

Ian Corfield donates 5,000 to reeves and gets a job in the treasury as a director

anyone got 5k i can borrow when i get the job that pays “at least 95,000” ill give you back 10k

Valid questions.

I will decide what I wish to respond to and ignore, thank you.

If you choose to ignore my answer that is absolutely fine, and only to be expected.
No, I do not believe everything I am told, be it by governing bodies, or anonymous Herberts on YT.

Assuming you mean politically embarrassing rather than genuine security issues.
I do accept that sensitive stuff is sometimes covered up. I do not think that all sensitive stuff is covered up. I do not think that all attempts to cover stuff up are successful, often “truth will out in t’end”.

Most Govs, most of the time, are honest.
See above, they have little choice. We do have a pretty good press, who will try to out the liars. When they lie they are found out, mostly anyway.

Most MPs try to do what is right. Many of them have huge egos, that almost goes without saying. Many of them seem to have very strange ideas of how to benefit the country, and do actually believe in “trickle down economics” etc.
As time goes on too many who started believing party A is best for the country, end up trying to make party A a winner, as an end in itself, forgetting their original aims of bettering the country.
Certainly not all MPs are there for service to the country, maybe less than in previous eras, but not all are purely self serving.

I wonder whether more of the heavily redacted Russia Report will now be passed for publication? Will there now be an inquiry into previous Russian interference in the UK, instead of telescopes being held to blind eyes?

Why does Farage even want to engage in anything other than contempt of this unelected commy despot and his regime.

As a dedicated Collectivist regime, led by a loyal Communist KGB operative, allied to China and NK and calling his enemies far right, you protest laughably too much.
Also remind us what was Zalensky’s pre war largest export market for food and raw materials.

Fair points. I’ll temper my assertion then; Putin is NOT a threat to the west if we stop poking him. I’m no threat to you Zac, however if base troops at the bottom of my garden I may need to reevaluate.

Has anyone here actually spoken to any Ukranians? I work with many and count them as friends. They are quite happy to discuss the situation whenever I ask. Some of my friends come from the east of Ukraine, some from the west. Although they get on absolutely fine with each other I’m sure that you can imagine that they have differing opinions about the whole thing.

One thing they do agree on despite their political leanings is that we in the west are being routinely lied to by the media and officialdom as such. I find most East Europeans generally to be far more engaged politically than us in the west so I tend to take at face value what they say (sorry, no links to prove that).

One of the most telling statements that I heard from a very pro Zelenskyy Ukrainian was “as

Your Arthur Scargill started the miners strike with a small house and a large union, so Zelensky mimics this in his war”.

From the horses mouth.

For the benefit Farage in some form.

In 2021 Ukraine exports to the EU was approx 24b euro.
Next was China at about 8b $
Russia 3.35b $
(Approx 8.5 USD/Eu at that time)
What point are you trying to make?

Amongst others, Two tiers silence is deafening.

Ok…So bearing in mind the absolute major sh storm that came about a few weeks ago, when it was wrongly pointed out that those little girls were murdered by …

A. an illegal immigrant. and
B. An illegal Islamist terrorist illegal immigrant.

That IF it came out that creep had been radicalised by Islam that they would tell us? :joy:…seriously? :flushed:

Even if it leaked it would be strongly denied at the highest level for people like you to swallow.

Those A&B points I pointed out are prevalently held my much of the population…including much of Starmer’s electorate…and STILL he refuses to acknowledge it let alone do something about it.
His speech yesterday afaik did not include the illegal freeloaders let alone what they intend to do about it…It was only brought up briefly after a question by a journo.

He spent most of it blaming the kin Tories for everything, maybe rightly so in many cases, but he should let that go, move on and do whatever tf he needs to to sort everything out.:roll_eyes:

And as for you not listening to random ‘Herberts on YT,’ does that include the random ‘Herberts on YT’ who you put up on here that share your views, or just the ones who I put up who share mine…just asking.

My simplest analogy: Putin is a bully, and a bully needs to be faced down or they don’t stop. Sure, you may get a few bruises and a burst nose in the process, but it’s the most peaceful long-term solution. Putin thought a scrap with Ukraine would be a five minute job, all done and dusted before the teachers came to break it up. He miscalculated badly.

As I see it, we have a large segment of society whose views seem to automatically in support any group who are opposed to what I would consider to be “historical UK values”.

My own teenage son is one of these; he believes the lie that Putin was acting against Ukrainian “nazis”, so I’ve had all the pro-Putin arguments at home already.

As far as I can tell there seems to be a standard package of internet disinformation designed to undermine countries who do not (yet) have a despotic ruler: Russia good Ukraine bad; Palestine good Israel bad, China/NK good US/SK bad etc. We have (relatively) uncensored internet at the moment, so this stuff gets spread around freely; Russia, China etc have tighter controls, so they can export their machinations but keep out the other side of the coin.

I’ve even had to have the strongest possible words with my son about Northern Ireland’s “troubles”; the ‘standard disinformation package’ favours one side only and I’ve had to remind him the there are some quite serious members of our family over there who’d be having very serious words with him over where his internet-influenced sympathies lie, be he family or not.

Do you honestly think that any false denial would not find many whistle blowers?
If any murders etc are made by terrorists of any political or religious extreme, I am confident that the truth will out.
I do not think that we the public need to know all the twists and turns of investigations in real time, and indeed I can see that hampering investigations and other Police actions. Satisfying our curiosity could harm what is in our best long term interests. Let the Police get behind the scenes to find what is behind any action, don’t make them pacify the pitch-fork wielding mobs.

His government said ahead of the trip that strengthening ties with Germany is “crucial” for tackling illegal migration and “boosting economic growth across the continent and crucially in the UK.”

Obviously there will be no quick fixes. It is untrue to say nothing is being done, and it seems to me better to plan effective actions rather than grandstand by throwing millions at high profile but useless plans.

Ok…but something needs done NOW, just to stem the flow…even a short term tactic of some kind…even the damp squib of Rwanda had an element of deterrent, whether you like it or not.

You know better than me how long these politcal talks, agreements and treaties take to get off the ground and come to some sort of fruition, and in the meantime they still come over here in droves.

Did it? Straight question.
I can’t see figures anywhere that shows any effect.
https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/129358/html/
Lots of rhetoric from those with points to make, but no proof.
It was alleged to be a deterrent, but wasn’t.

Ain’t gonna happen though is it?
Starmer could join the long line of those offering promises about what will happen, and follow up with excuses about why it didn’t…but so far he hasn’t.

Also lots of rhetoric from opposute points to make from your lot…so you believe that and I will believe the opposite.
Some of that rhetoric from Herbert on you tube (who was actually there undercover…the ex R. Marine guy) reckoned both the gangs and the freeloaders were waiting with bated breath for the G.election result, when Starmer got in it was a mad rush to get to front of queue to board the dinghys…but no doubt more nonsence/rubbish or whatever eh?

Rhetoric and metrics.
The figures of irregular migrants did not change with the Rwanda plan.

Was there a sudden surge in migrants because of the election? No.
Do you honestly think that migrants waiting on Calais beach, having taken months or years to get there, having paid thousands to smugglers, would be much influenced by UK elections? Would they have thought, “Oh, Sunak is in again, let’s all go to Mexico instead”?

There is, by all accounts, “a mad rush to the front of the queue” every time a boat is available.

And while we are here…was it a vision of the election results that the ex Marine had. Here he is talking about his trip 11 months ago.

Or did he do it twice?

The fact you have just used the official Labour euphemism of IRREGULAR migrants…ie the Lefty lentil eating ‘oh that makes it sound much more cosy dear’ policy of defining it , without a hint of irony, instead of the totally ‘ILLEGAL migrants’ (btw is that banned as well now? :joy:) option, just stops me from going any further with you on this.
Your use of that phrase says more about you and your liberal bed wetting views than I ever could .:joy::joy:

Socialist views are anything but liberal.

Obviously the ‘point’ was that, like your pathetic Russia bad China good bleating, Ukraine seems to be rather selective in choosing its enemies.
So providing the raw materials to build Putin ally China’s war machine.
As for the EU just the same.
While you’re obviously all for using a rigged election to install a Socialist despot and regime here that the DDR would be proud of.

Russia but you obviously have no problems with China though.

I dont gaf how many times he did it …there ya go again with your smart arsed patronising sneers btw I see.:roll_eyes:

I have heard a few interviews on the tv from this lad, a few on the radio, and one or 2 doing his ‘Herbert off YT’ routine.
On one of them when specifically asked, he clearly stated that in his opinion whilst living among these scrotes,.that Rwanda held an element of deterrent to them, and that there was some kind of uproar of relief when hearing that Starmer and his shower got in.
Now if you want to trawl through hours of footage to contradict that, in order to achievecanother one of your ‘litle victories’, then fill yer boots, you have far more time on your idle hands than I have if I felt the need to…I DON’T btw.