Political discussions...

We can only pray that his chauffeur takes a wrong turn in which ever inner city he finds himself, and it all goes horribly wrong for him.

Cracker got popped coz he was in ma hood, Brexit this mofo… :grin:
camronwith_gun

The Tories have just lost around HALF the seats they were expected to in these recent council elections.
Many places saw RUK candidates finish a “close second” which of course, as always is entirely meaningless.

Thing is, come the general election ahead - if the Tories only lose half what is expected BECAUSE RUK stay on zero seats, then guess what Labourites?

You can kiss goodbye to Starmer winning any kind of majority…
Likely, he’ll finish with the most seats in a hung parliament, and go into coalition with… Sunak’s Tories.
Sunak will be delighted to get the Chancellor’s job back again, to be sure!

SNP coalition?
Not gonna happen.
Libdem Coalition?
Will be strongly opposed by a heel-snapping Tory opposition with barely fewer seats than Starmer’s Labour got…
Not gonna happen neither!

If Labour want a full majority, they MUST vote tactically so that the Tories lose so many seats that Starmer can run an effective “minority government” if he needs to… I.e. the Tories are down to double-digits, with those seats being lost to Libdem, Green, and RUK - with Labour voters currently in third or lower place in such wards - tactically voting Libdem/Green/RUK as appropriate to turf just about every Tory Cabinet minister - out on their collective arses…

Not prepared to do that Labourites in seats you cannot ever win?
There IS no majority for Starmer.
Get over it already.

Listen to what the latest post-Council election polls are telling you.

I am being bombarded by pleas to vote tactically, but in my old constituency that means voting Labour, and I just can’t bring myself to do it, swapping one shower of s hits for another. :rage:

I feel very sure that I am not the only one that din’t see this one coming:

Elphicke is far from being a softy/leftie/liberal Tory, and is apparently not going to stand at the next election, so she isn’t after retaining her seat by changing allegiances.

You can’t “vote tactically” to remove a party that is already incumbent at Westminster by voting for another party already incumbent at Westminster… The idea is to replace entirely the shower at Establishment High Command altogether.

Traditionally, one votes for a single-issue “Independent” to “vote tactically”, Eg. Martin Bell vs Neil Hamilton in 1997, or George Galloway 2012 (Bradford) and again 2024 (Rochdale)

Who’s the “Protest” candidate in your constituency?

Ah…the voices…!

Of course you can, if you desire is to get rid of the incumbant government whatever the cost, in other words, voting Labour in my Conservative constituency,could well dispose of the Cons.

The problem for me personally is that I don’t want a Labour government almost as much. as I don’t want a Conservative one and would much prefer, if there were many people like me, to vote for a 3rd party to make a point for the future. Remember Labour wasn’t always the 2nd party in Britain, they came from nowhere to wrest that position from the Liberals.

Tactical voting comes in many different flavours.
Depending which constituency they are voting in, some will be holding their noses and voting Labour, however next door someone will be holding their nose and voting Liberal, but both are trying to keep a Tory out.
At the same time Tory or ReformLtd supporters might vote Liberal to keep Labour out of a seat.

In spite of some hype, I doubt that the Tories will be wiped out at the next election, and I expect that we will continue with a Con/Lab “two party system” for a while.

However, if we do ever get a proper PR system then tactical voting will become pretty much redundant.
I’m hopeful that we will get such a system, but am not holding my breath.

All true, and until then, and the sacking of the outrageously undemocratic 2nd chamber, the country is fooling itself in thinking it is a democracy.

Quite agree.

The system we have was brilliant centuries ago, but standing still when the world moves forward leaves us behind in the democracy stakes.

Edit.
I thought that one very funny thing was all of those Brexiteers who moaned about the EU’s democratic deficit and unelected commissioners, who then appointed a never elected Lord to the Cabinet to take charge of the UK exit!
The irony meter broke with that one.

Yes and what a hoot, and how does that Mitchell bloke live with himself knowing that he is only good enough to be Deputy Foreign Secretary…
A bit like having a yard full of rigids and drivers with class 1s, and then bringing the bloke next door in to drive the one and only artic. :joy:

And we haven’t yet mentioned PM’s “elected” by members of one party, appointed “Czars” who are hailed as being independent of politics, and the way small groups inside one party, funded and supported by secretly funded “think tanks”…

Oh gosh, hold me back!
:grinning:

On Sky News about this defection.
Speaking as somebody who aint really in to all this stuff…
She is there because she has been voted in…obvs.
So if a local electorate has voted her in purely for the policies of the party she represents, (The Tories) and not because she personally may have a nice smile, and she then defects to Labour,…how tf is that representing her voters? of whom are the sole reason she is in a job in the first place.

And is she still going to ‘hold office’ as a Labour rep until a re.election…(please excuse my obvious ignorance on these matters btw.)

Secondly the bloke on the news said something along the lines of…
‘‘This is a part of the death knell of the Torys in power’’.
To which my instant reply was ‘Serves the ■■■■ s right, they have reaped what they have sewn’.

They got rid of the bloke who was a proven sure fire vote winner, but then pandered to the ones getting into a lather,.and clutching their pearls (morning Frangers :grin:) about after work parties,.and took,… no, grasped with vigour, that opportunity to wait for it… Get shot of the guy who was so popular with the MAJORITY of the national electorate, he even kicked life long Labour strongholds into touch ffs :flushed:a major achievement and surprise.
They dropped him, basically because although Johnson fit in with the people’s choice , he did not with the Tory establishment’s choice…
(a football analogy, the same way T. Venables did not fit in with the FA at England, although he was bloody good at his job…exact same scenario, the establishment dont like it up em Captain Mainwaring.:smiley:

The haters and naive, then bang on about his lying, presumably to justify things, where as the rest of us (without an agenda and not so naive) know that they ALL lie.

At least you knew where you were with Johnson, in a ‘Better the devil you know’ stylee.
And again imo, Covid prevented him from giving him a chance to show what he could have done after Brexit, instead of the cluster ■■■■ Brexit has become…
And by Christ, dont the hardline old remainers and the Boris haters just secretly love it.
As I said serves em all ■■■■ right. :joy:

Strap yourselves in for a Labour Government.

Cue Frangers starting his next patronising post with…‘Nonsence’, followed by a plethora of anti Tory/Boris/Brexit/Covid links. :joy:

(Or you know when I have REALLY pi55ed him, and got under his skin, he totally ignores me :joy::joy: )

Part of the UK FPTP system. We vote for a person not a party.
Well, in theory anyway.
Elphick can stay as MP for Dover unless there is a recall petition, and changing parties is not a possible reason. Recall petitions

There is I agree a good argument that anyone changing parties should offer them selves for re-election after resigning.

(Johnson was likely to face a recall vote but pre-empted it by resigning, and couldn’t be arsed/chickened out, and didn’t stand)

So yes, she stays in place as an MP.
Her argument, asI understand it, is that she still believes in the same things that she fought the election in 2019 as a Tory on, and that Sunak is not delivering those things, but that Labour could.
Worth noting that she was a Johnson fan, maybe still is!?
She says that she is still very unhappy with the current immigration situation, and argues that the current Tory policy is worse than the Labour policy.
She is also very strong on the housing situation and again says that Labour are more likely to do good than the Tories.

Whether or not her former Tory colleagues agree with her? Some will, but most won’t I guess.

If she had chosen to be an Ind MP she would have a freer hand.
As a Labour MP, not sitting as an Independent as she could have chosen to do, she will be expected to follow the Labour Whip. She will have to stick with the party line on most things.

Apparently she does wish to stand down at the next election so is not going to rep-lace any Labour candidate in Dover or elsewhere.
By going to Labour I guess she wishes to have input on housing and migration to push Labour towards her views for the good of Dover.
I doubt that Labour would allow her too much free rein on that.
But what the future holds is very (for some of us :wink:) stuff.

There we are, @robroy .
For the “nonsense” you’ll have to wait for another post. :grinning:
It won’t be too long coming I expect.

Johnson was criticised for the breaking of his own laws. He admitted such eventually, and paid the fines.
He was before the HoC Committee for Standards for Lying to Parliament.
He would have likely been sanctioned for that and most likely ahve had to stand again for election as an MP.
He chose not to do so.
He wasn’t sacked by anyone.
He didn’t want to possibly fail at the ballot box so ran away.

wait for it
Nonsense!
The negotiations were all happening before Covid hit and were a farce from start to finish. The “oven ready deal” wasn’t ready, the infrastructure wasn’t ready (this side of the Channel) and the “deal” was and remains awful.
I could go on (your cue) but those arguments stand alone.

Johnson was a very popular figure, yes. He no longer is.
YouGov show him as being
30% popular, but 56% disliked with 13% undecided.
Although he is liked by many, there are even more who dislike him and that probably includes Tory voters.
He is very divisive. Not a good choice for a leader to appeal to a wide range of voters.
Penny Mordaunt for example is liked by 26% but disliked by only 18% and 28% neutral. She may gain slightly fewer votes, but won’t frighten off nearly as many.
Sunak though is still best placed as leader! Sunak seen more favourably than Johnson and Mordaunt among Britons aware of all three | YouGov

That’s my worry too. I might just vote Green. That’ll teach 'em. :joy:

The next government is going to consist of those who promise immediate delivery of whatever their manifesto committments are…
NO more “Jam Tomorrow” deals.
NO more “When we can afford it, which will be towards the next election.”
NO more “Sorry bud, the previous administration has left us crippled”.

The way I see it is
“If there is money for Ukraine/Foreign Aid/Foreign Policy” - then why can’t there be priority cash for everything internal to the UK FIRST?

It has long since been said that RUK are supposedly against the NHS…
Perhaps it is time for them to be the ones to pledge the 35% pay award be met in full - funded by the scrapping of the Foreign Aid budget, some £13billion per year, including the money we’re shredding buying Zelensky’s next mansion and matching sports car… :rage:

Go on then: what is it about Labour and/or Starmer that upsets/worries you?

If Penny Dreadful is left in charge of a Rump Conservative party, I can see them taking decades to recover back to even “Opposition” status.

Sunak seems pleased right now that the Tories only lost half the seats they expected to lose in the recent council elections…

He’s RIGHT to be pleased: The council elections, when broken down suggest that the nation couldn’t care less who rules them after the next election - there’s so little difference between mainstream parties now, that we’ll all be salvaging what we can…

There’s no risk of “Nuclear War” as such, but I reckon we’re heading for a period similar to the Thatcher first-term - but this time around without a full-on war to get us out of it…

Question for Labour voters:
Are you gonna vote for the official labour candidate - IF that candidate is now a turncoat?