sorry what??
yes i forgot about lockerbie
if there is a string of one particular crime (which is what we were discussing) and that individual or group get sent to jail then that crime is going to stop whilst they are in jail because they aren’t there to commit it unless of course they are some high level yogi and can commit crimes in the astro plane
The four 7/7 bombers.
Isn’t that what you meant?
ok then who radicalized them then if all they had to do was watch two mosques
however it does show that integration doesn’t work.
I don’t think that any IRA bomber would class themselves as British to be fair, despite being born north of the border, in the same way that a dog born in a stable is still a dog, not a horse.
the point i was making was it was domestic terrorism. they were a military origanisation with a command chain. i did forget about lockabie. As far as i know they didn’t go to camps and declare death to the west
The UK security forces?
Order of the day: Watch only those places where future terrorists will originate.
For every complex situation there is an easy solution.
And it is always wrong
the security forces… special branch… police
i disagree thats the easiest solution the easiest would be not to let them in in the first place. thing is the first generation Pakistanis in this case came over when we handed back control and decided that those that wanted to live under british rule could come here. Trouble is they didn’t want to integrate or follow our laws.
Independence and partition happened in 1947.
Most migration was the different religions moving between India and Pakistan, very little was to the UK or elsewhere.
Migration to the UK from Pakistan was largely in the early sixties. Just the same with the West Indies.
The UK Govs of that time wanted immigrants. Following WW2 there was a need for more people of working age and many from the old Empire came to do better for themselves and help the UK in reconstruction and economic growth.
London Transport and others went abroad to recruit staff.
If your argument is that we should have done differently 80 years ago? Apart from being an absolute waste of time, I wonder what state the country would be in today?
We are, where we are.
Go and find out about the lives of the bombers and of their families.
No criminal records. Did OK at school. Played footie and cricket.
Clearly they were susceptible and were radicalised, and nothing can possibly excuse any of their actions, but unsupported repeating of stereotypes is a waste of time.
I recommend this documentary on radicalisation in the UK
And another political genius is hard at work across the pond
Hands up to a mistake.
Re housing. The UK Gov may have paid for house building that I hadn’t fully realised about.
Sorry.
I am not altogether sure about the houses being sold off privately though.
But it is still local homes for local people.
Michal? I thought it was Mishal.
Regardless of spellings, she’s my “celebrity crush” 
I could listen to her talk all day and never once think “FFS will you shut TF up!” 
Martha Kearney on the other hand… The sooner she’s gone the better, as we say in the North-east, she’s got a voice ‘like a Cullercoats fish-wife’, ie deeply unpleasant
Oh No!
So where did my Valentine Card to the “Presenter Michal at BBC” end up?
I feel a right Beurk now.
Er… No.
From 7 July 2005 London bombings - Wikipedia
Three of the bombers were British-born sons of Pakistani immigrants; the fourth was a convert [to Islam], born in Jamaica.
Charles Clarke, Home Secretary when the attacks occurred, described the bombers as “cleanskins”, a term describing them as previously unknown to authorities until they carried out their attacks.
Yes, I was going to say something about IRA not being “home grown” as Coop suggested, but I thought it might be too much of a digression.
I think the pre-European Union agreement of the Common Travel Area leads to some highly significant misunderstandings in some British people, notably the ones who have no ‘investment’ in our UK history on the island of Ireland. I’ve met more than a few people who honestly believe U2 are a British band 
@cooper1203 The “R” in IRA stands for “Republican”, indicating they want a united Ireland, ie the whole island becoming Eire, recognized by the UN as an entirely different country than the UK. Therefore (regardless of whether the terrorists were born in the UK) by their actions which they hoped would cause a UK territory to become part of Republican territory, we must consider them as “foreigners”.
Oi! Hands off ‘wor lass’. Outside in the car park now!
Again at risk of wandering off topic, the CTA plus the Good Friday Agreement, plus Brexit (sorry) and now the Windsor Agreement with an internal UK border in the Irish Sea, but none between NI and Eire.
More doublespeak and doublethink than at your average religious meeting or political rally, all in one small corner of an island.
It would look even worse if you’d tried to follow the initial post-Brexit minefield of paperwork to shift stuff from mainland UK to NI 
I used to try to keep on top of it for those TM Refresher courses aimed at operators doing international work; a truly mind-boggling Kafka-esque series of hoops to jump through
You say Kafka, I say Schrodinger.
Simultaneously NI is/isn’t in the EU/UK and borders do/don/t exist.
Mind you to a student of Ancient Greek Fairy Tales such as Johnson it must have been very clear
…yeah…right…
third time of saying this lets try it this way
was the ira domestic terrorism??
maybe the words of Jonathan Evans, former Director General of mi5 will help
2000, 17 November: Police arrested Moinul Abedin. His Birmingham house contained bomb-making instructions, equipment, and traces of the explosive HTMD. A nearby lock-up rented by Abedin contained 100 kg of the chemical components of HTMD.[88] In March 2020, Jonathan Evans, former Director General of MI5 gave an interview and commented on the case: ‘The first indication that we had an actual, live, real threat in the U.K…the first arrest of anybody in the U.K. linked to al-Qaeda who was planning an attack here…with the fall of the Taliban and the Afghan camps in 2001/2002, evidence came to light which demonstrated that this was an at least inspired al-Qaeda plot of some sort’