of course the real reason he has attacked farming is because we were all supposed to starve when brexit came in with out the generosity of the eu providing food. As anyone with a brain cell said it was cobblers which has been proven right he has to kill off the british farms.
It was done before by bringing in the law that meant farmers could lay land aside and be paid for it meaning we had to import food. so starmer is trying a more direct approach
@Franglais…Listen mate, you aint got time to be sat pontificating on here about your problem with ‘The Farmers’, dont waste any time, get on the blower for that ‘Landlord to the IRREGULARS’ opportunity I put your way…asap
Even join their ‘Buddy’ scheme,… or better still the vacancy for ‘Educating the Racists’ (aka only those who disagree with the Labour govt and/or their so called ‘asylum seekers’ policies) …you know how good you are at outing ‘racists’ mate…It’s your dream gig.
Be sure to let us all know how you get on.
Yep and a lot of us don’t like money being wasted on these things as well as the millions per day housing illegal immigrants in hotels when there are pensioners in this country freezing and scared to put their heating on - like the example I posted further up.
So forgetting Clarkson for a minute you still believe that the majority of those 10, 15 or 20,000 on that protest are land grabbing tax dodgers and not genuine farmers affected by this, I’m just basing that assumption on your use of the word “some”?
I don’t know any proportions.
I suggest that an upset farmer will likely have an upset spouse, and some upset offspring. One affected farm might well have have several protesters associated with it.
I do not suggest that all the protesters are “land grabbing tax dodgers” who have land only for tax purposes.
I expect many of them are on farms that were 100% tax free previously, and are going to be tax payers soon. They are not happy.
I do not think that farmers should be 100% exempt from IHT. depending on the exact case, many will still be 100% tax free up to £2.65m, and only pay at a reduced rate beyond that.
Looks reasonable to me. If someone has an estate of multi millions why should they be exempt from IHT totally?
If someone is “asset rich, and cash poor” why should they not sell off some assets to pay bills? (Remember again that farmers will be able re repay tax over ten years at zero% interest)
And again remember that like anyone else the farm owner can pass on the farm whilst they still are alive, and if they live for another 7years, zero tax due.
Inheritance tax is I think a good thing generally.
It is not a tax on the dead, no matter how some spin it.
It is designed as a tax on those who receive money they did not earn.
Sounds like a solid plan to me. Get the farmer to sell off some of their assets to pay the bill. Whether that be machinery or a building/land that may house livestock, grain, dairy. I mean it’s not like they are going to need that particular asset to actually do what the farm is intended for and actually be able to farm.
Have you ever thought of a job in the Labour party with logic like that?
Well assuming we are generally speaking here and away from just farmers then inheritance tax is actually a scam. It’s often money and or property that has already paid tax so why should it be taxed again? It’s an easy go to for governments to generate revenue rather than looking at where we are wasting money elsewhere and unnecessarily.
Personally I think if anybody can get away with stitching up the tax man, fair play to them.
The MPs have their scams in the firm of expenses, so why not give ordinary Joe a bite of the cherry who works his arse off.
If the tax revenue was utilised instead of continually being frittered on sh like …dare I say it?..yeah, any opportunity… ‘‘The irregulars in hostels’’ , I may feel different.
I did go to the trouble to point out that farmers do not need to do that.
They are treated as a special case whereby they get a million or two tax free, and only pay at half rate above that.
They also get ten years interest free credit.
If it impossible to run a business without paying taxes then the business is not worth a light.
Like it or lump it, why should the rest of us support those who want to do a job but cannot make it pay?
Some of the problem is that land prices have been pushed up tax dodgers, remember the comment about land price inflation, and so what should be working land is now valued as investment land. Real farmers are having their land treated the same as those who want to avoid IHT.
It is a bad situation, and some will suffer, but in the real world the only way to catch the selfish dodgers will involve some pain for the less guilty too.
I still say that anyone with a few millions in assets should be able to afford a hundred or two thousand in tax over ten years.
£4m family farm owned by a couple?About £2.65m tax free.
Approx £260k tax due over ten years. Is that excessive? I don’t think so.
Anyone else passing on £4m will be paying nearer £1.3m tax, 5 times as much.
One way and another we are all paying more tax, why should a group with assets in the millions pay zero?
OK.
Again we can all find instances of expenditure we do not like. And often instances where not enough is spent.
So long as tax must be raised there will always be someone who has to pay.
That happens all the time, everywhere.
Your income is taxed. When that income is spent on goods you pay VAT. And sometimes duty too.
When your money earns interest it may be taxed.
Inheritance tax is paid by the heirs. They did not earn the money, nor did they pay tax on it. It is only paid by the richest 4% in the UK.
If money is coming from somewhere, then it seems like a reasonable target to me.
Seeing as farmers go a long way in providing the food in this country and are pivotal in the food chain I’d say we should be doing everything we can to damn well support them. Many of them actually work for a pittance year round in real terms - irrelevant of whether their land/assets on paper might make them out as a lot richer than reality.
Interesting you bring that up. All you lefty liberals are happy supporting all those scroungers from this country with no intention of working and paying into the system, as well as those coming illegally from abroad for the free hand outs, both at great expense to the tax payer. Many of us are angry that’s where our tax money goes without any say on the matter. Instead you direct your anger at hard working farmers.
James Dyson has bought thousands of acres of farm land worth about £500million. His heirs were due to pay approx zero. I do not think that is good.
To block such dodging some farmers will have to pay more.
About 200 farms per year out of 1,300 will be worth over £1m. And not all of those will pay, depending on how they arrange things.
https://centax.org.uk/inheritance-tax-reliefs-time-for-reform/
And here is the boss of Riverford Organics:
In the piece titled “I’m glad to see tax loopholes closing for cynical investor landowners,” he gives a fascinating perspective on the situation.
“Don’t be fooled”, he writes, “those who are pushing the hardest against this change to inheritance tax… don’t represent farmers.”
“They represent the super-rich who don’t want to contribute their fair due, and are simply buying up our country to keep more money and assets for themselves.”
As he says “Our country desperately needs investment in its crumbling infrastructure… it would be a fantasy to think that could be achieved without some people paying more tax.”
It is designed as a tax on those who receive money they did not earn.
So, if that is the case should someone winning the lottery or win one of the large Premium Bond draws pay tax on the winnings??
What do you mean by “the less guilty”
You have gone to great lengths to say that not all farmers will be caught up in this (I highlighted tenant farmers as an example) but then you are saying they are all guilty to more or less extent.
Yes and if they pass on the farm they cannot live on the property.
If they want to continue working on the farm whoever the new owner is (next generation or not) must pay them a proper wage.
Was James Dyson at the protest ?
Did you know that at the protest the farmers collectively donated approx 6.5 tonnes of fresh food to charity (City Harvest I think it called)
Good question.
I think that gambling wins should be taxed.
Is having Premium Bonds gambling or not?
It is possible to win large amounts, but one isn’t risking the capital sum. It could be argued that it is a form of investment.
If it is an investment then are the expected returns in line with other investments? And would taxing wins make it less attractive to investors/savers/gamblers?
I am OK with the existing state of affairs. But that is purely a personal take on it since you asked.
I like the idea of the Gov having cash on hand from savers however it arrives.
You are right I did not think that wording through very well.
Some innocents will be caught up in the trawl to get the dodgers.
Also some of the better off farmers will be paying tax when they did not plan to. Bad for them, but the smaller farmers will still be paying nowt.
Easy enough to sell a farm and continue to live in a house there. I know of those who have done that. Many farmers have bits of land dotted around a bit.
If the new owners are not the next generation of the same family, then all the romantic arguments for keeping a farm together is lost anyway. It is purely a business transaction.
Dunno, and don’t care.
He is an example of how the current system has been exploited. He is not a struggling food producer, who needs a bit of help keeping a family farm intact.
I didn’t mention James Dyson, nor is he relevant as I’m talking about day to day farmers up and down the country that are being affected negativity over this.
I already said further up that I agree with your points on Clarkson for instant and I actually don’t think he’s the best representation for the farming community for reasons I already covered.
You are still ignoring or refusing to accept that 10,000 or so genuine farmers at the protest on Tuesday aren’t simply in it as rich tax dodging land owners as you seem to naively think. Probably because it goes against your official narrative stance on everything.
Talking of £500m, we’re spending £537m on foreign aid, much of which is agricultural projects. We’re clearly living beyond our means.
See above.
I agree that Dyson and Clarkson are not good examples of UK farmers.
They are (were) however set to be beneficiaries of the tax concessions made for genuine farmers.
If Dyson, Clarkson etc had not bought up farm land, because of the tax laws, farm land would be cheaper, so genuine farmers would be quite so “asset rich and tax poor” and not be in the bands about be taxed.
If dodgers were not involved then the law would not needed changing.
The innocent farmers would not be caught up with the dodgers.
No.
There are some totally innocent farmers who will still be paying nowt.
There are some blatant tax dodgers.
There are also some better off farmers who were expecting to pay nothing, but may now be paying something. I expect those are the ones who made up the bulk of the protesters.
As I said above I dont think they are being asked to pay stupid amounts of monies. That they are being asked to pay anything at all, seems a shock for them, but there ya go.