Political discussions...

[robroy]

Says the mouthpiece who is the self apointed Trucknet Labour party lefty liberal representative, apologist and spokesman
You are a joke mate…serously.
If you were not so tragically beyond help it would be funny.

[franglais]

@truckpro

@franglais

And we have already looked at why there is such a proportionately high figure of Muslims in prison, although it is not such a high number being convicted. It is due to conversion whilst in prison.

Bull5hit.

From earlier on.

Political discussions...

Those seem like fair figures to me. I daresay that @robroy and @maoster won’t believe them though, because they come from “official sources”. I guess they will not be taking part in any discussion with dodgy figures. Quote: According to the UK prison officers’ union in 2013, some Muslim prisoners in the UK had allegedly forcibly converted fellow inmates to Islam in prisons.[14] There have been multiple cases of non-muslim prisoners threatened with violence[15] with “convert or get hurt” bei…

You seem to be happy to use figures, but not happy to accept their limits and explanations, from the sources that provide them .
A charitable person might describe that as “cherry picking” of information.

I note you put (supposedly) behind the figures you use.
If you have better figures please supply them.

A cynic might suspect you are adding codicils to try to disown figures when they don’t prove what you want them to say.
I am sure you are far too honest for that, so I look forward to seeing your new source material.

[truckpro]

I have already provided figures of non white Muslims in prison, just shy of 14.5% against a UK total Muslim population of 6%. All Muslim prison population of 18%. Those figures either way are pretty bad to most people except of course you.

[tachograph]

@franglais

Unfortunately, The Telegraph is behind a pay-wall

Here’s the Telegraph article.

Neil O’Brien
11 September 2024 • 5:01pm

How many of the people in our jails entered this country illegally? Are people from some countries more likely to get arrested in Britain than others? How much do we spend on welfare for people from different countries, and how much do they pay in tax?

We should be able to find an answer to all of these questions – but you can’t, because the Government won’t publish the data needed to draw conclusions. Indeed, answers to all questions about migration are getting harder to find.

While other governments around Europe are publishing more and more data on migration, in the UK we’re publishing less and less. The Department for Work and Pensions have stopped publishing the data on welfare claims by nationality which they used to publish for many years.

HMRC have stopped publishing data on the amount of tax paid and tax credits received by nationality. These decisions happened at the end of the last government, and I was critical at the time.

But the decision to hold back all this data has become more relevant, because Labour’s main approach to the small boats crisis is to hide the costs in the wider expenses of the welfare state.

This mindset extends to the Government’s handling of the asylum backlog, which in practice means granting more people asylum quickly. Just make people who came here illegally legal, and hey presto, problem solved. In a few years Labour will be able to boast that spending on the asylum system, currently £4 billion a year, is down, as the costs “disappear” into the wider welfare system where they will no longer be published.

In the real world, there are two problems with this strategy. First, waving more people through will increase the pull factor that causes so many people to enter the UK illegally. Asylum grant rates have steadily climbed over recent decades – from less than a third in 2004 to four fifths now. On top of that, many failed asylum seekers just vanish: the proportion of those who are ultimately removed has also dropped sharply over the last ten years. Previously, around a quarter of those who claimed asylum were returned, now it’s around one in twenty.

Some claimants are genuine. But many are really economic migrants or involved in criminality. At present the biggest group in the small boats are people from Vietnam, a peaceful and friendly country that people from the UK go on holiday to. Even so, the share of those asylum seekers coming from Vietnam who are returned has declined from about two thirds in the mid-noughties to just 1 per cent.

This is why people pay criminals to get in dangerous boats to come here: if you can make it to the UK, you’ll almost certainly be able to stay. Until that changes, the crossings will continue.

The second problem with the government’s plan is that in the real world the costs don’t go away. A number of local councils are very concerned that people are being shifted from asylum accommodation to presenting as statutory homeless and in need of social housing.

Just under half of all households in council housing in Greater London are already headed by people born overseas, and the share of new lets going to people who are not UK nationals is rising.

Of course, many refugees do work and also contribute in other ways. But refugees are often more likely to be destitute, and may not speak English. The group is four times more likely to be unemployed than people born here, and on average earn about half the amount per week that UK nationals do.

The British government refuses to calculate the impacts of this, but other countries do. A study at the University of Amsterdam calculated that, over a lifetime, the average net cost of an asylum migrant to the Dutch public is more than £400,000. Perhaps it’s no surprise that the British Government doesn’t want to publish such calculations, or even the information that would allow others to do so.

Since Labour came to power, roughly 8,400 people have come across the Channel – about 137 every day. That we cannot have an honest conversation about the consequences of this breeds huge mistrust. To avoid the problems we are seeing elsewhere in Europe, we need a new, transparent approach.

[franglais]

Thanks, @tachograph

[franglais]

The figures are explained by those who provided the figures.

I have nothing to add to that.
Do you have any insight or extra info to offer?
NB, ignoring what you don’t like is not adding extra.

[truckpro]

@franglais

NB, ignoring what you don’t like is not adding extra.

Ignoring what exactly?

That some Muslim prisoners convert non Muslims whilst in prison? We know that.

The figures I posted, to anyone with an ounce of intelligence, (then there’s you of course), make it quite clear the high percentage of Muslim prisoners compared to the Muslim population of the UK, but never mind eh.

[Ledwidge]

Could it get any better, money for old rope
Break the law, get fed and watered, then get a lump sum to take home after sentence finishes

If you’ve been in prison

If your prison sentence was up to 4 years, you might be able to get help to return to your home country using the Home Office’s ‘Facilitated Returns Scheme’.

You can apply to the scheme:

up to 9 months before your sentence ends
when your sentence has ended

You can’t use this scheme if you’re a citizen of the EU, EEA or Switzerland. You can check which countries are in the EU and EEA on GOV.UK.

If you’ve already applied to stay in the UK, you must cancel your application before you apply to the scheme. If you’re not sure what your best option is, talk to an adviser.

What help you can get

The Facilitated Returns Scheme can give you money to help you settle down when you return home. You can use the money to do things like:

• set up a business
• study or get training
• pay for housing
• pay for your medical costs

If you’re using a prisoner transfer scheme to serve the rest of your sentence in your home country, you can still apply for the scheme.

How to apply

To check if you can apply for the Facilitated Returns Scheme, call 020 8760 8513 from Monday to Friday, 9am to 5pm.

[franglais]

@tachograph
Interesting piece from the Telegraph.
As it says the last gov was cutting back on info available, and so far the current gov have not changed that. I do hope they do.
Info should be looked for, and made public as much as possible.

I do agree with the writer that even any hint of secrecy can lead to mistrust, and vacuums suck in any old information and misinformation indiscriminately.

Re the Amsterdam study, FullFact have looked at it:

Estimate of £400,000 cost per asylum seeker based on the Netherlands, not the...

[maoster]

I’d certainly be interested in a full and comprehensive breakdown of the cost per head for an illegal in the UK. If I was a gambling man I’d suggest that the cost in the UK would work out even higher just because it’s the UK and ineptitude and a cavalier attitude to “someone else’s “ money seems very much to be prevalent here.

Do you agree or disagree with my thoughts Frangers?

Edit to add; precisely because this is the UK I’d go as far as to suggest that the cost would not only be higher it’d be significantly higher.

[franglais]

@maoster

Do you agree or disagree with my thoughts Frangers?

Neither…
Come on! Didn’t you see that answer looming on the horizon?

Every country seems to think it is unique in having “inefficient, pen pushing, bureaucrats”.

[maoster]

Nicely sidestepped there’s an opening on Strictly come dancing you’d be ideal for.

[franglais]

Over in the US…
Tuesday Trump said he had a plan for peace between Russia and Ukraine. No more detail from him, but…
J D Vance has explained the plan…
The NY Times (behind paywall) describes it as being the same as Putin’s plan!
Here it is via CBC

Trump peace plan would see Russia keep Ukrainian territory, says Vance

Surrender.

[franglais]

Yes, I would like to see a full cost/benefit analysis of immigration and asylum. There, I agree with you.
I have no idea at all whether the UK is particularly better or worse at admin than the Netherlands, so cannot either agree nor disagree there.

I am also reminded of Wilde and knowing “the price of everything, and the value of nothing”.

[robroy]

Strictly Come Dancing ?..Franglais?
Nah he’s more a ‘Dancing on ice’ type of guy I reckon mate…cos he’s certainly skating on thin ice after some of the things he’s called me on here.

Definitely no good for ‘Catchphrase’ though, especially the bit where Roy Walker would say…‘‘Just say what YOU SEE’’, …he aint too good at that,.nah definitely not.

[carryfast]

Surrender was pulling out of Vietnam instead of bombing Hanoi and Peking back to the Stone Age.
Remind me what was your hero Wilson’s policy on that you know like leaving our American and Australian allies to their fate.
A demilitarised zone was clearly what Russia had in mind when it pulled out of its previous buffers.Not for NATO to move in.
It’s also how we settled the Korean War and the Cyprus crisis.
Why the double standards.

[robroy]

Speaking of Moslem jail birds…here’s another batch ready to rock up there, and deservedly so.
Sorry especially to Franglais, but the only source is of the ‘‘right wing biased fake news’’ variety, …as ever, put on you tube by Herbert again, but funnilly enough I could not find it on BBC or any other mainstream channel, but I’m sure he’ll be along to totally rubbish and discredit it,.and redress the balance teling us how many white working class (far right😃)grooming gangs are out there also.

Anyhoo…just have a listen to what these absolute charmers got up to.

Politicians and establishment media DON'T want YOU talking about this - Not on our watch.

Then he wonders why I have in the past covertly followed my grandaughter in the past more than once, with a baseball bat down the back of my kecks tucked in my belt.

[zac_a]

@robroy

Then he wonders why I have in the past covertly followed my grandaughter in the past more than once, with a baseball bat down the back of my kecks tucked in my belt.

And in the event of you actually following through on any suggested vigilante action, the Police will be soooooooooooooo pleased you put that in writing, in the public domain, where it can be accessed forever, and ever and ever…

It might make you feel good to write that down, but it’s a f’in stupid thing to do; any significant involvement with the Police would have them confiscating your phone quite rapidly - and from what you’ve said before, your phone is how you access TN?

[truckpro]

Yep, saw that rr, pretty much covers what you and I have been on about on here for some time. I’m sure it was reported on my local news that one of the girls, (underage of course) was passed around and raped by up to 150 different men, so just the tip of the iceberg.

On a lighter note, the news item is fundamentally flawed and fails to mention that the seven scumbags convicted, were born with the names, Dave, Pete, Kev, Steve, Andy, Johnny & Bri, they were all born Pakistani Christians, but whilst on remand were forcibly converted to Islam.

[robroy]

Thanks for the parental type guidance, but if I want it, I’ll ask you for it.

I doubt if the Police would even care, they seem to be too busy with what THEY think is more important…but hey, let em know yourself if you feel the need, or if you are that type of person…I dont know.

Can you imagine if I went and reported the harrasment, what action they would take.?..nothing.
Maybe if the parents of those poor girls had took some sort of action, it would have prevented it, because the Police were not interested…in case it upset the
racial applecart.

I was looking out for thr female members of my family,.as any Dad should, if any repercussions, they eould be better than the sort of things that happened to those girls.
I had no intention of storming in like John.Wayne if nothing had happened, as I said,.I was purely monitoring what went on, nothing did on that occasion,.and the baseball bat was a last resort or insurance against me coming a poor second against 2 or 3 much younger guys…
But it is what it is, …and why am I even explaining myself to you.