Sorry to see Peter Foden go. Another link to a previous era now gone. Never met the chap, but felt like I knew something of him, through various magazine articles.
Wheel Nut:
The end of the Foden band
Just to clarify, Fodens band are alive and well! They are amongst the top six or so brass bands in the country.
From memory, the band dropped the Foden name in the early-mid 80’s after factory support stopped and took the name of their then new sponsors Brittania Building Society. They were still referred to as ‘Fodens’ by all and sundry within the banding world though!
In the mid-late 90’s that deal finished, and the band included ‘Fodens’ as part of their new deal with another sponsor, as that was the ‘brand’ (to use the modern parlance) that everyone knew them by.
I agree with Bewick; A retired fitter of ours, who was very familiar with AEC, Leyland and Volvo products (F88) has told me how the Brits knew nothing about customer service and their attitude was “they’ll allways buy British”…
I worked for ERF in the late 80s/early 90s and can tell you guys the main reason for moving away from Gardner engines was that they became far too unreliable, virtually every second unit had mechanical problems and we were losing credibility. With the launch of the E Series, we also introduced the CP (■■■■■■■ Preferred) policy. By promoting ■■■■■■■ engines, Eaton gearboxes and Rockwell axles we were able to reduce unit costs via volume purchasing and better scheduling. PF (as he was known) took a lot of convincing but he eventually saw the reasoning, he was fully aware of the company’s historical links to suppliers and there was a wish to preserve them but not at the expense of ERF.
There are well-documented problems with some ■■■■■■■ engines, particularly the L10 head gasket problems (caused purely by a stupid cost-accounting decision from Columbus) and we were all frustrated that we couldn’t get a permanent fix to market quickly enough. There were only about three manufacturers of headgaskets world-wide and by the time it took to recognise the problems with the 2-grommet head, it was over a year before they could switch back to a 7-grommet head. Interestingly, it was only in Europe that these problems arose because while we would use a 10l engine at 38 tonnes, in the US, it would never be used at such high weights or for intensive operations. We were replacing headgaskets, knowing full well that they would fail again, we even developed a “swing” engine programme. Rather than replace the gasket on an engine in-situ, we would provide an engine with a new gasket and simply swap the units over.
Anyway I digress from the man himself. PF could be blunt to the point of rudeness and his table manners were something to observe: a colleague once remarked that he must be the only man to have seven five-course dinners hanging in his wardrobe. He did however have his finger on the pulse of the industry. He insisted on seeing the daily order intake and always oversaw future production scheduling. He predicted the downturn of the late 80s and against all advice, ordered production scheduling and purchasing to be scaled back - was proved correct again. He a had a sharp wit and although he was not slow to criticise, he was also quick to praise anyone. He knew most of the production line and when redundancies were inevitable, it was obvious they caused him personal sadness.
I’m glad I met and worked for the man and I am saddened by his passing.
Edwin Peter Foden RIP
Ah the ■■■■■■■ L10; In Smiths experience, good engines but lost power after 2 or 3 years and needed overhaul (became asthmatic and knocked out blue smoke).
Re Gardners; Good engines but got into turbocharging too late and were by then way behind Cat and ■■■■■■■■
codhead99:
Anyway I digress from the man himself. PF could be blunt to the point of rudeness and his table manners were something to observe: a colleague once remarked that he must be the only man to have seven five-course dinners hanging in his wardrobe. He did however have his finger on the pulse of the industry. He insisted on seeing the daily order intake and always oversaw future production scheduling. He predicted the downturn of the late 80s and against all advice, ordered production scheduling and purchasing to be scaled back - was proved correct again. He a had a sharp wit and although he was not slow to criticise, he was also quick to praise anyone. He knew most of the production line and when redundancies were inevitable, it was obvious they caused him personal sadness.I’m glad I met and worked for the man and I am saddened by his passing.
Edwin Peter Foden RIP
RIP Mr Foden 
Great epitaph, codhead99 
Welcome to the funny farm 
I, for one, would love to hear any stories you may have about your time at ERF but on a new thread, perhaps?
Just wondering; Are there any members of the Foden family left in the lorry business ie with shares in MAN, Paccar etc?
I wonder if any look back with any regrets with the way the marques have disappeared?
Muckaway:
Ah the ■■■■■■■ L10; In Smiths experience, good engines but lost power after 2 or 3 years and needed overhaul (became asthmatic and knocked out blue smoke).
Re Gardners; Good engines but got into turbocharging too late and were by then way behind Cat and ■■■■■■■■
IMO Nathan,Gardners had gone as far as they could with the “non turbo” 265 bhp 8 cyl,turboing was never going to work for them.Gardners were past it,especially after they were taken over by Hawker Siddley.The Gardner engine was a legend in it’s time but it had reached its “sell by date” when they tried to move into “Turbos”!! A bit like you trying to run in the 100mtrs with work boots on !!Cheers Dennis.
Muckaway:
Just wondering; Are there any members of the Foden family left in the lorry business ie with shares in MAN, Paccar etc?
I wonder if any look back with any regrets with the way the marques have disappeared?
I seriously doubt it.
Paul Foden joined ERF from Arthur Anderson Consulting and went on to become Sales Director (the main reason for my departure from the company). Shortly after the Western Star takeover, Terry Peabody bought up all the ERF shareholdings and took the company into private ownership.
Bewick:
Muckaway:
Ah the ■■■■■■■ L10; In Smiths experience, good engines but lost power after 2 or 3 years and needed overhaul (became asthmatic and knocked out blue smoke).
Re Gardners; Good engines but got into turbocharging too late and were by then way behind Cat and ■■■■■■■■IMO Nathan,Gardners had gone as far as they could with the “non turbo” 265 bhp 8 cyl,turboing was never going to work for them.Gardners were past it,especially after they were taken over by Hawker Siddley.The Gardner engine was a legend in it’s time but it had reached its “sell by date” when they tried to move into “Turbos”!! A bit like you trying to run in the 100mtrs with work boots on !!Cheers Dennis.
There was no doubting the engineering skill, bordering on love that went into the manufacture of a Gardner engine, as a visit to Patricroft would testify. It wasn’t a production line, engines were assembled and trimmed by one man. The final sign-off was the lowering of the head onto the machined block face that had a smear of oil. If the head was then lifted and the block rose with it, then it was considered to have been properly machined.
codhead99:
Bewick:
Muckaway:
Ah the ■■■■■■■ L10; In Smiths experience, good engines but lost power after 2 or 3 years and needed overhaul (became asthmatic and knocked out blue smoke).
Re Gardners; Good engines but got into turbocharging too late and were by then way behind Cat and ■■■■■■■■IMO Nathan,Gardners had gone as far as they could with the “non turbo” 265 bhp 8 cyl,turboing was never going to work for them.Gardners were past it,especially after they were taken over by Hawker Siddley.The Gardner engine was a legend in it’s time but it had reached its “sell by date” when they tried to move into “Turbos”!! A bit like you trying to run in the 100mtrs with work boots on !!Cheers Dennis.
There was no doubting the engineering skill, bordering on love that went into the manufacture of a Gardner engine, as a visit to Patricroft would testify. It wasn’t a production line, engines were assembled and trimmed by one man. The final sign-off was the lowering of the head onto the machined block face that had a smear of oil. If the head was then lifted and the block rose with it, then it was considered to have been properly machined.
So that is why they smoked from new 
codhead99:
Muckaway:
Just wondering; Are there any members of the Foden family left in the lorry business ie with shares in MAN, Paccar etc?
I wonder if any look back with any regrets with the way the marques have disappeared?I seriously doubt it.
Paul Foden joined ERF from Arthur Anderson Consulting and went on to become Sales Director (the main reason for my departure from the company). Shortly after the Western Star takeover, Terry Peabody bought up all the ERF shareholdings and took the company into private ownership.
Arthur Anderson Consulting, now there is a name to ponder upon. Now Arthur Anderson were my Auditors, and as is custom, at the final audit meeting I would sit with my inqusitors, and answer such questions as “how did you achieve this”, “how do you see the market progressing”, etc. These I would answer economically, (ones knowledge in business is hard earned, and not easily disposed), and the team would depart.
We had enjoyed a particularly succesfull, late 80s year, and returned a very good result, both in profitability, and return on capital. About the middle of the following year I received a telephone call, at home, from a friend within the industry, the MD of a very succesfull importer, from whom I purchased on a regular basis a reasonable volume of product. He suggested that we should meet, sooner rather than later, and this we did.
The reason for the meeting, Arthur Anderson Consulting had approached his company to offer their services to open up a potential market area in which, as yet his company, and its Dealer Network, were not represented! The business model that they had outlined, in my friends eyes exactly fitted our business!!.. And I thought that he was right!!.
Ethical, not b… likely! Litigation, a certainty, but on a cost/benefit basis, (my wifes a lawyer), not worth it, so we dispensed with the services of AA, and obtained new auditors. That information passed between AA the auditors, and AAC, was without doubt. And my doubts about their Professional standards were born out by subsequent events… but it still leaves a nasty taste even today!!
Your, and Dennis`s comments on Gardner, would lead me on to a lengthy response, and this is probably not the correct thread to detail it . Look forward to your future contributions, someone who has been directly involved with a UK assembler will have much to offer of interest to us all.
Wiggins is still in Yellow, and tommorow the Time Trial, Besancon, a metropolis long in my memory as I managed at a rather swish corporation banquet, to convert the beautiful white dress of Mdme la Mayor, into rose, with the help of a bottle of Bordeaux`s finest, aided by a misplaced Turkish carpet!! … Peter Foden would have enjoyed the spectacle, (and the repast). May he rest in peace. Cheerio for now.
Sorry to learn of Peter Foden’s passing. May he RIP. Another link to the once proud British lorry building industry has passed.
I met Mr Foden on several occasions and after he had sold the ERF business to Western Star I suggested to him that I would like to write the difinitive history of ERF with his collaboration. His reply suggested to me that he had had enough of the entire business, he said “no we’'ll not bother, it’ll be like trying to revive a corpse”
Incidentally, despite him latterly favouring ■■■■■■■ engines Peter Foden did retain his company’s strong links with Gardner and was always present at the Gardner functions we had for such as the book launch at the Museum of Science and Industry at Manchester, and also a couple of Gardner themed days at the Anson Engine Museum.
This is a 1982 shot of the very last new ERF’s we bought at Bewick Transport,three C38 4x2 Sleepers,Gardner 265 8LXC/Fuller 95909/Eaton single spd.axle.ZF power steering and Eberspacher night heaters(retro fitted!).Oh! and a brand new Scania P82 stuck on the end!!The ERF’s were supplied by Eden Commercial Services,Carlisle and the Scania came from Moreville Trucks,Liecester.
It is deeply sad news.
Whatever your personal opinion is of ERF Trucks (and I think we have heard them all here, yet again), PF was unique and utterly respected within the industry. As the man himself said, you can’t please all the people all of the time, but we can have a damm good try.
He will be missed.
codhead99:
…With the launch of the E Series, we also introduced the CP (■■■■■■■ Preferred) policy. By promoting ■■■■■■■ engines, Eaton gearboxes and Rockwell axles we were able to reduce unit costs via volume purchasing and better scheduling.
Your memory is slightly out codhead. The CP Series was launched in 1984 as an extention of the C Series range. CP stood for ‘Common Parts’, promoting a more ‘off the peg’ Tractor Unit specification featuring ■■■■■■■■ Eaton, Rockwell - as you say.
codhead99:
…PF could be blunt to the point of rudeness and his table manners were something to observe: a colleague once remarked that he must be the only man to have seven five-course dinners hanging in his wardrobe.
Edwin Peter Foden RIP
His Blue Rolls Royce car with the number plate ‘ERF 1’ had all at Sun Works standing to attention as it drifted past!.
RIP PF
Rip Peter, met him in the 80’s at the launch of the E series a gentleman.
ERF:
His Blue Rolls Royce car with the number plate ‘ERF 1’ had all at Sun Works standing to attention as it drifted past!.
It was a Bentley mate. Although he had a chauffeur (Stan a great chap), PF loved to drive himself and a Roller just wasn’t “beast” enough for him. He got his love of speed from Edwin Richard, who once built a diesel-powered speedboat and broke the Liverpool - Isle of Man record.
codhead99:
ERF:
His Blue Rolls Royce car with the number plate ‘ERF 1’ had all at Sun Works standing to attention as it drifted past!.It was a Bentley mate. Although he had a chauffeur (Stan a great chap), PF loved to drive himself and a Roller just wasn’t “beast” enough for him. …
The last car I actually saw ERF1 on myself was quite a few years ago when he came down this way for an RHA evening function, and it was definately a 1984 Rolls Royce Silver Spirit in light metallic blue. Did he not have a darker blue Bentley Mulsanne after that, and latterly a silver Bentley Continental Flying Spur?. 1ERF and ERF7 were also seen on other cars around the factory years ago. Any idea who’s they were?.
Hiya …ERF1 was always on a morris 1000 traveler (late 60.s) peter always had EPF10 usually on a aston .
the first was a dbs 6 cylinder and later a dbs v8.if you think about it aston was owned by David Brown for a while.
ERF fitted David Brown gearboxes.maybe peter got a good discount.
the reg is a Stoke on trent area, Beeches was the sole agents at one time for ERF so a RF reg would have been quite
easy to get hold of/nudge nudge wink wink,
when i worked at jennings / erf there was a chap Tim Foden i don.t know where he fitted into the family
but i know he was in the main office, i think he has a big intrest in the plant (gardning) side of things nowadays.
i do know where he lives but thats of no importance.
John
i think that 1ERF was Ernest Sharrat’s plate, sadly no longer with us.