I can only speak as I found it and I would have dearly wished to have continued building up a fleet exclusively on Atky/Sed Atk and ERF,we took delivery of our last three ERF’s in '82 and the last two Sed/Atks in '84,all with Gardner 265 8LXC’s but it was more out of sentiment than common sense at a time when the Scania was miles/kilometers ahead of the British offerings,but I did try !!! The two Sed/Atks were not bad motors though 265LXC’s/Fuller 95909/Rockwell axles but they were still way short of the Scania R112 at the time.You’ve got to hand it to those operators that persisted right to the end with buying British motors IMO they must have sqandered £000’s in comparison to operating marques such as Scania.Well thats my take on the discussion !!! Cheers Bewick.
erfguy:
Well Bewick your the first I have heard with that complaint both ERF & FODEN were well known for their one off’s and not just for big companys alone small firms and owner drivers were welcome at both. Eddie.
That might be the “rose tinted” view “erfguy” but believe me what I’ve stated previously is exactly as I recall it.I can quite believe that there were a number of small operators/owner drivers that could stick an order into ERF or Foden for a one off and then they would wait patiently for a long while (not necessarily on the “promised” date) and eventually their new motor would turn up to join their 2 or 3 vehicle fleet! Fair enough,but ask for an order of 6 Gardner engined tractors ( ERF’s not Foden! ) for delivery at a given date and the response was usually Yea! you can have them with ■■■■■■■ and what about trying a couple of RR engines but Gardners ooh nooo! 12 months if your lucky,can’t you wait ? Sorry I can’t wait I need them on that date.End of conversation.Guess what, a couple of F88’s (could have had 6 from stock!) and the first Scanias into the fleet.All delivered on time and a bit cheaper than Erfkinsons !!! Cheers Bewick.
Evening all, Dennis you are at it again!! Many may find what you have said unpalatable, But I have to totally agree with you.
It is sad to see that Peter Foden has passed away, and may he rest in peace.
I met him on a number of occasions, both connected with our industry, and social, and of course when I put a lot of my hard earned cash down to pay for a fair few of for his companys products, and without doubt he was good company. But it was pretty obvious that at that time, the management of ERF were not, from Cyril Acton, the MD down , really aware of how the UK market place was changing , and how to respond to it.
Their response…Western Star…John Bryant, (the man who gave Volvo success in the USA), and the MAN debacle, is like the crazy Leyland mess, now history. Just b… sad, oh so sad.
You know , I think, (and I take on board any criticism), that it is easier to be “first generation”, starting from scratch, making, (scrabbling) your own way, wherever it leads, than being second , or third generation, having the burden to maintain past success, and create new ones.
Peter Foden, may we all only remember the successes!! RIP.
Cheerio for now.
Not withstanding the sad passing of Peter Foden RIP,I can now retire for the evening, safe and sound, in the knowledge that my previous posts have been thoroughly vetted and confirmed by the “Shropshire sage”!!! Cheers Dennis.
Solly:
@DennisI can understand you felt insulted…if that’s the right word… by his comments. I agree I doubt very much whether he would have said the same to the larger hauliers for obvious reasons.
Ha! History is a funny subject, it is usually written to hide many truths or include many untruths. You, by personal experience have uncovered that which has never been mentioned as a cause of the downfall of British truck manufacture. That’s why I say you have revealed something that is not found in British truck manufacturing history. Nor likely too. I honest believe that in the circumstances you found yourself in…namely considered a “No-Mark” you did the right thing. Why should you have stayed faithful to the British truck industry? You didn’t have, or were offered any incentive to do so.Apologies for being off topic people.
I think this topic has been discussed on here in different threads numerous times and the same conclusion has been reached , its sad that the last of the Fodens has died hes had a good innings and im sure he will be content where ever he is and maybe its ironic that the 2 squabbling families were the last 2 English lorry builders to survive R.I.P.Peter
Most of this boils down to the same old story wherever you look at the history of British industry.
Lousy management.
The British ethos for too many years was the preference for the gifted amateur over the highly trained and skilled professional.
The men who started the companies all had the right idea but their progeny had been elevated to upper middle class and became public school educated etc. etc. and didn’t want to sully their hands with real work or mix with the shopfloor. So standards slipped, arrogance with clients became the norm, orders were lost and the workforce became discontented.
The British Empire/Commonwealth has a lot to answer for in that it gave industry a guaranteed protected export market and shielded management from the real world. Once the barriers were dropped we couldn’t compete on level playing fields.
RIP Peter Foden. I’m sure you were a nice guy but your generation had really lost the plot!
A lot of Hauliers stuck with ERF a friend of mine John Marshall Transport Wickhambrook for many years ran nothing but ERF also Courtenhams of Blackmore End
Saviem:
You know , I think, (and I take on board any criticism), that it is easier to be “first generation”, starting from scratch, making, (scrabbling) your own way, wherever it leads, than being second , or third generation, having the burden to maintain past success, and create new ones.Peter Foden, may we all only remember the successes!! RIP.
Cheerio for now.
Sad to see a him go…it is very easy to critcise another man’s success,or indeed the lack of it. The Foden family created/maintained jobs,wealth,an industry,either collectively as a group or individually as a result of their squabbling. One way or another,they created a huge amount of wealth for themselves and others.
What I find particularly sad is I don’t see any upcoming families/individuals with the grit and determination that these guys had. Modern day entrepreneurs tend to concentrate on media,retailing,internet,music etc with very little spin off for the general populus. Truck production has gone to Sweden and Germany by and large. How come the Germans in particular keep their general industry factories rolling at all costs…even though a lot of these are owned by families,they seem to survive 300/400 years without any great difficulty…unions politicians,senior management relationship breakup and inheritance/handover issues seem to aid and abet the running of the business and thus maintain jobs,as opposed to the hurdles/obstacles that they create over here(UK & Ireland).
RIP Mr.Foden…Very few of your calibre around these days…
Riverstick:
Saviem:
You know , I think, (and I take on board any criticism), that it is easier to be “first generation”, starting from scratch, making, (scrabbling) your own way, wherever it leads, than being second , or third generation, having the burden to maintain past success, and create new ones.Peter Foden, may we all only remember the successes!! RIP.
Cheerio for now.
Sad to see a him go…it is very easy to critcise another man’s success,or indeed the lack of it. The Foden family created/maintained jobs,wealth,an industry,either collectively as a group or individually as a result of their squabbling. One way or another,they created a huge amount of wealth for themselves and others.
What I find particularly sad is I don’t see any upcoming families/individuals with the grit and determination that these guys had. Modern day entrepreneurs tend to concentrate on media,retailing,internet,music etc with very little spin off for the general populus. Truck production has gone to Sweden and Germany by and large. How come the Germans in particular keep their general industry factories rolling at all costs…even though a lot of these are owned by families,they seem to survive 300/400 years without any great difficulty…unions politicians,senior management relationship breakup and inheritance/handover issues seem to aid and abet the running of the business and thus maintain jobs,as opposed to the hurdles/obstacles that they create over here(UK & Ireland).
RIP Mr.Foden…Very few of your calibre around these days…
I could not agree more with your post , and am some what surprised at certain comments made by a well known contributor to this site , would he rather have the industry ran by the type of people who now are now running the banking industry !!! ■■? . I met Peter Foden both on a business and social levels and always found him an approachable down to earth , and most of all a true gentleman . In conclusion how the hell did the transport industry ever manage before it run Scania`s ■■? .
We got on fine we drove FODENs and ERFs. Eddie.
erfguy:
We got on fine we drove FODENs and ERFs. Eddie.
We did manage fine because they were the very best out there, before that we had managed with ex military hand me downs from the first and second world war, some of them still in service as wreckers and the construction and timber industry.
Although Foden was a bit of a niche market and ERF catered for the masses, the forward thinking haulier was given a choice. The driver friendly F86 wouldn’t pull the skin off a rice pudding but the drivers liked them. The Scania and Volvo management listened to the market once they had a foothold, a Foden 8 wheeler was the best of the lot, Volvo looked and learned and built a special chassis in Irvine, purely for the UK market place. Eventually Renault caught up with the Kerax or whatever they called their 8 wheeler. MAN were another one. They improved the design and ERF was ultimately no more. But was it suddenly, did they see the warning signs. I don’t think they did.
I have listened to all the old men saying how good the Gardner engine was, how good the Eagle Diesel performed. Which other European truck manufacturers fitted them? I am going to watch Speedway now. I will give you some time to answer 
There was nothing wrong with the lorries, the main problem was the management of these companies.
Wheel Nut:
erfguy:
We got on fine we drove FODENs and ERFs. Eddie.We did manage fine because they were the very best out there, before that we had managed with ex military hand me downs from the first and second world war, some of them still in service as wreckers and the construction and timber industry.
Although Foden was a bit of a niche market and ERF catered for the masses, the forward thinking haulier was given a choice. The driver friendly F86 wouldn’t pull the skin off a rice pudding but the drivers liked them. The Scania and Volvo management listened to the market once they had a foothold, a Foden 8 wheeler was the best of the lot, Volvo looked and learned and built a special chassis in Irvine, purely for the UK market place. Eventually Renault caught up with the Kerax or whatever they called their 8 wheeler. MAN were another one. They improved the design and ERF was ultimately no more. But was it suddenly, did they see the warning signs. I don’t think they did.
I have listened to all the old men saying how good the Gardner engine was, how good the Eagle Diesel performed. Which other European truck manufacturers fitted them? I am going to watch Speedway now. I will give you some time to answer
There was nothing wrong with the lorries, the main problem was the management of these companies.
Jawa hope your about to watch the Speedway World Cup, see Billy has got Rico seat on his bike. After that go and watch Half mile of hell thats the nearest i get to anything racing round a track, but it is good
Did one of the French truck builders offer them wheelnut berliet■■?
I think in the later days ERF and foden became a lot more adaptable in building bespoke equipment as it was a way to survive.
I’ve only ever driven one ERF (EC11 8w) and it was a Western Star product but was a lovely motor to drive and the only fault was it felt a little nervous off road in comparisson to Foden 4000s and the Daf 85 version.
When ERF and Foden ceased production, operators switched to Hino as a 2-fingered gesture to Daf and MAN; It didn’t last long as I’ve noticed the all Foden operators run the cursed Daf CF in it’s place.
It would seem that the combined comments of “Saviem” and Me have got “up the nostrils” of some other members,well unfortunately,when you are the one putting your brass down for a product, as the end user,surely you are entitiled to have an input into the spec of that product ? If you are ignored as an “irritant” well you are entitled to spend your “hard earned” elsewhere----yes ? Why should you have to swallow badly speccd,overpriced,inferior products.Never mind what a grand chap Peter Foden was (and no doubt he was!) the ERF offerings IMO eventually where,I’m sad to say,inferior to the Scandinavian products.Why?, when we had been world class manufactures of automotive products for many years.One major reason for me favouring the Scandinavians and later on the German and French marques was they were “vertically intergrated” manufactures ("Saviem"will explain better!) as opposed to the “vehicle assemblers” that Sed/Atk and ERF,and to a lesser extent Foden,were.All the components on the Scans and the Continentals were designed,manufactured and matched “in house” and not “bought in” and were,therefore,often mismatched !! Cheers Bewick.
tetragaz:
R.I.P Mr Foden
+1
BB
kr79:
Did one of the French truck builders offer them wheelnut berliet■■?
I think in the later days ERF and foden became a lot more adaptable in building bespoke equipment as it was a way to survive.
Saviem will know that. I recall a few narrowboats used them, gensets and a crane or two.
were there any Scania 100’s or FIAT RR Eagles?
You are totally right Dennis as i said in a earlier post Foden and ERF where bits of this and bits of that the Company i was T/M at we stuck with Leyland too long when we started buying Volvos we got better MPG the back up from Rydale trucks was second to none we found that the Leyleand Dealers sensed the decline and sadly a lot of them lost interest
The fixed head did for Leyland and was, I think, an indication of their lack of investment in R and D. The next glaring indication was the Marathon. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw a prototype at Europort.
I thought it was a bodge up for test running. Then out came the real thing. A marketing man’s nightmare!
rip mr foden thanks for the great motors your family supplied us over the last 50 years