Here is a suggestion. I believe that most UK truck drivers are fiddling.
Most hgv drivers are mostly ignorant of the requirement of working time rules.
I work around 60 hours a weekend most of the time is work.
I know of many drivers who work up to 70 hours and 80 per week.(duty time)
That’s 300 hours a month, its to many hours, drivers will end up like robots, humans make mistakes when there tired.(trucks don’t)
When you record rest and periods of availability from 2011 the law states that rest periods spent at the workstation are deemed as work, minus your statutory break.
We know you can have your rest in tie cab,but lets not be cab happy.
I know you all want to earn a living but by fiddling your working time you are a danger to yourself and others.
Since the judgement of Ross v driver the grey,area has turned black and white.
The DFT are actually complacent in the everyday contraventions,and VOSA don’t really want to enforce by penalties.
Its a complicated situation but the outcome is most hgv driver are working illegally by fiddling breaks and POA.
The more hours you can work then the cheaper you are.
Work legally,
Fiddling the road transport working time regulations is a criminal offence.
Remember ,a rest time spent at the workstation us work time
You work 60 hrs every weekend do you ? How do you manage that then ? 
In fact who the frigging hell are you ?
Ross v stobart:
Here is a suggestion. I believe that most UK truck drivers are fiddling.
Most hgv drivers are mostly ignorant of the requirement of working time rules.
I work around 60 hours a weekend most of the time is work.
I know of many drivers who work up to 70 hours and 80 per week.(duty time)
That’s 300 hours a month, its to many hours, drivers will end up like robots, humans make mistakes when there tired.(trucks don’t)
When you record rest and periods of availability from 2011 the law states that rest periods spent at the workstation are deemed as work, minus your statutory break.
We know you can have your rest in tie cab,but lets not be cab happy.
I know you all want to earn a living but by fiddling your working time you are a danger to yourself and others.
Since the judgement of Ross v driver the grey,area has turned black and white.
The DFT are actually complacent in the everyday contraventions,and VOSA don’t really want to enforce by penalties.
Its a complicated situation but the outcome is most hgv driver are working illegally by fiddling breaks and POA.
The more hours you can work then the cheaper you are.
Work legally,
Fiddling the road transport working time regulations is a criminal offence.
Remember ,a rest time spent at the workstation us work time
As far as I’m aware there never was a grey area around whether or not you can be confined to the workstation during POA, just because someone at Stobarts screwed up doesn’t make it a grey area.
Explain how you think most HGV drivers are working illegally by fiddling breaks and POA.
I doubt you will because this looks like just another Stobart bashing thread hiding behind the cloak of Ross v Stobart 
bald bloke:
You work 60 hrs every weekend do you ? How do you manage that then ?In fact who the frigging hell are you ?
I’m just a guy who likes a work life balance.
I’m middle aged, i’m from the 1966. The last time we won the work cup matey.
Do you remember
Anyway i’m just saying love life.
I reckon 12 hours maximum is good.
Oh and its 60 hours a week, 12 hours a day times 5.
I don’t do weekends.
Religiously commitments,don’t you know.
Remember cab happy and diesel head make for a very greasy episode.
Obviously a solicitor or dogooder trying to mess the job up even more. Its never been a grey area its always been very clear and to suggest that most drivers are fiddling is either very foolish or very uneducated remark
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Stobart bashing it is not.
It was never bashing or revenge.
It was just about the law. You know like what controls and regulates.
Or are you one of those hgv trucks that rushes around ,
Anyway if like to point out that it was,a stobart driver in,a stobart truck that killed.a women at Millers bridge in Selby.
Look it up on google.
The witness and police are on record as saying the drivers mind seemed like it was with the fairies.
I don’t want to say the drivers name.
Look it up and give me your view.
There’s no driver bashers here
Ross v stobart:
bald bloke:
You work 60 hrs every weekend do you ? How do you manage that then ?In fact who the frigging hell are you ?
I’m just a guy who likes a work life balance.
I’m middle aged, i’m from the 1966. The last time we won the work cup matey.
Do you rememberAnyway i’m just saying love life.
I reckon 12 hours maximum is good.
Oh and its 60 hours a week, 12 hours a day times 5.
I don’t do weekends.Religiously commitments,don’t you know.
Remember cab happy and diesel head make for a very greasy episode.
No I don’t remember as I was only 1 at the time. I myself don’t think you’ll be too welcome on TNUK.
Troll time oh joy another keyboard warrior
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alix776:
Obviously a solicitor or dogooder trying to mess the job up even more. Its never been a grey area its always been very clear and to suggest that most drivers are fiddling is either very foolish or very uneducated remarkSent from my Windows Phone 8X by HTC using Board Express
It seemed neither Mr Ross or Mr Stobart really understood the WTD or RTD and MR Ross cannot argue without losing his rag and subsequently his job 
Working 60 hours per week, surely he meant a maximum of 60 hours & averaging 48
Arbeitsbereitschaft - Readiness for work (Arbeitsbereitschaft) covers the situation in which the worker must make himself available to his employer at the place of employment and is, moreover, obliged to remain continuously attentive in order to be able to intervene immediately in case of need.
Bereitschaftsdienst - While an employee is on call (Bereitschaftsdienst) he is obliged to be present at a place determined by the employer, on or outside the latter’s premises, and to keep himself available to answer his employer’s call, but he is authorised to rest or to occupy himself as he sees fit as long as his services are not required.
Rufbereitschaft - The stand-by service (Rufbereitschaft) is characterised by the fact that the employee is not obliged to remain waiting in a place designated by the employer but it is sufficient for him to be reachable at any time so that he may be called upon at short notice to perform his professional tasks.
I have often muted in my tome that the translations from Euro Towers can be misconstrued and think the above 3 examples explain the categories much better. Taken directly from 93/104 and a European High Court ruling.
Ill have to look at all that EU stuff tomorrow. Sleep calls.
Before I go,I can politely add that its about the workers ability to completely depart from the workstation.
To leave,site, or to go shopping whatever, that’s a POA
Other times when your on duty and on standby and your card or tacho is in the truck, then that’s duty time, if you need to remain on site.( workstation)
I have details of guidance from an employer that says that when ever the vehicle stops,then that a POA,
By the minute POA.
I’m sorry but I think drivers should be on duty less.
Or be compensated by higher wages or more statutory time off.(paid)
There,are lots if drivers who work 80 and 70 hours.
Its a lot.
I don’t think the industry complies with the Act
.
I don’t Jean any offence
Ross v stobart:
When you record rest and periods of availability from 2011 the law states that rest periods spent at the workstation are deemed as work, minus your statutory break.
Would you tell us exactly which “law” this is please?
Ross v stobart:
Before I go,I can politely add that its about the workers ability to completely depart from the workstation.
To leave,site, or to go shopping whatever, that’s a POA
Other times when your on duty and on standby and your card or tacho is in the truck, then that’s duty time, if you need to remain on site.( workstation)
POA, now there’s a clue here. Its in the name/description. Its about being available. POA is not something designed to let you get out and off work and get off somewhere.
I’ve read Ross V Stobart several times, and to be honest its like a comedy sketch, its like the blind leading the blind. The Stobart manager was clueless telling him he had to come in and be available, when he plainly couldn’t be available. Mr.Ross, although according to the tribunal he was ‘knowledgeable on these matters’ actually went in to be available when he knew he couldn’t be. He knew this as he rang VOSA for confirmation !!! Then goes in and gives them the verbals !!! And the Tribunal thought it was a ‘grey area’ !!! Not one of them knows what they’re doing and i really mean not one of the three of them. The Stobart manager, Ross or the Tribunal.
And as for …
Here is a suggestion. I believe that most UK truck drivers are fiddling.
Then i think its that type of attitude that got Mr.Ross the sack in the first place !!!
The truth hurts doesn’t it
I have to add that I was instructed to attend work or it would have been a disciplinary.
I asked to leave site,this was refused.
We ended up in this position because the employer uses incorrect and illegal,guidance.
You can’t just bang it on poa,or record breaks so as to extend your work allowance.
Poa is not by the minute.
Not to be used in a trafficking jam.
My previose employer guidlines are incorrect and the same guidance is used by the industry.
You guys think that when the wheels stop your on a break.
Hgv drivers work to many hours
That’s the argument.
Ill post the guidance on here and you can make up your own mind.
Its not stobart bashing.
Its about the industry and how drivers are working to the point if fatigue
.
Its not driver bashing
Ross v stobart:
I have to add that I was instructed to attend work or it would have been a disciplinary.
I asked to leave site,this was refused.
We ended up in this position because the employer uses incorrect and illegal,guidance.You can’t just bang it on poa,or record breaks so as to extend your work allowance.
Poa is not by the minute.
Not to be used in a trafficking jam.
My previose employer guidlines are incorrect and the same guidance is used by the industry.
You guys think that when the wheels stop your on a break.
Hgv drivers work to many hoursThat’s the argument.
Ill post the guidance on here and you can make up your own mind.
Its not stobart bashing.
Its about the industry and how drivers are working to the point if fatigue
.
Its not driver bashing
You claim that drivers are working illegally, you claim that drivers think that when the wheels top turning they’re on break, now put up some evidence to back up your claims.
If, you’re Peter Ross, you had a disagreement with Stobarts and was right in that you should not have been told to stay on the premises when on POA, actually you shouldn’t have even been on POA, but it was over two years ago so now get over it.
tachograph:
Ross v stobart:
I have to add that I was instructed to attend work or it would have been a disciplinary.
I asked to leave site,this was refused.
We ended up in this position because the employer uses incorrect and illegal,guidance.You can’t just bang it on poa,or record breaks so as to extend your work allowance.
Poa is not by the minute.
Not to be used in a trafficking jam.
My previose employer guidlines are incorrect and the same guidance is used by the industry.
You guys think that when the wheels stop your on a break.
Hgv drivers work to many hoursThat’s the argument.
Ill post the guidance on here and you can make up your own mind.
Its not stobart bashing.
Its about the industry and how drivers are working to the point if fatigue
.
Its not driver bashingYou claim that drivers are working illegally, you claim that drivers think that when the wheels top turning they’re on break, now put up some evidence to back up your claims.
If, you’re Peter Ross, you had a disagreement with Stobarts and was right in that you should not have been told to stay on the premises when on POA, actually you shouldn’t have even been on POA, but it was over two years ago so now get over it.
From a very quick read of the tribunal, my impression is ‘What a P****!!!’
Putting aside the legalities for a minute, you were over on your 17 week average, the wanted you to go in, on pay, and do nothing for 3 days to get your average back down, and you argued? In the real world you would have had to take those 3 days off without pay.
I would deduce that you are one of the by the book men that got you into this situation. As in, unless the exact duration of POA was told to you at the start, you wouldn’t count it if it went over or under. Instead of using the rules to your advantage, as most of us do, but thats what you see as us runnng illegally.
As Tachograph says ‘get over it’ and move on, if you want to campaign then there are other sites out there who would welcome you with open arms, they’re just as deluded as you are.
You should try and comment without lowering yourself to bad language.You know very little.
For one the there,days by law have to be paid. There is a contract.
An another point its not recommended to dictate to the employer,what the,employee will do.
That’s the responsibility if the employer.
It is a implied term of employment law that the worker will not work illegally.
This situation arose by the employee refusing to bang it on,POA when its not allowed.
You seem like another driver who just,wants to work to the max regardless of the law.
The most popular comment of drivers is that they do it to,suit them self
Its people with,attitudes like you that ruined this job.
And its opinions lie yours that maintains a low hourly wage and long unsociable hours.
You keep coming up with,all that spiel from,Europe about case law.
Truck drivers are different.
the UK should not have been allowed to opt out.
The UK should withdraw from the working time directive because they can’t jack it
HGV drivers are suffering from fatigue,
They work very long hours.
Some are aggressive,some are impatient.
Some have,accidents,some live lonely lifes, they destroyed there families by never being,at home.
They drive like nutters .only a few feet from the car or truck in,front.
Obviously some drivers obey the,rules but many,don’t.
Some don’t,even,know the rules.
The hours they,work,are to many.
Its ridiculously barmy to,expect,a worker to,start,at say 9am and work till midnight.
Some drivers just,want to grab,as much as they,can whilst others just want a decent job.
No offence to anyone but I still think most drivers are working illegally either knowingly or unknowingly.
Ross v stobart:
You should try and comment without lowering yourself to bad language.You know very little.
For one the there,days by law have to be paid. There is a contract.
An another point its not recommended to dictate to the employer,what the,employee will do.
That’s the responsibility if the employer.
It is a implied term of employment law that the worker will not work illegally.This situation arose by the employee refusing to bang it on,POA when its not allowed.
You seem like another driver who just,wants to work to the max regardless of the law.
The most popular comment of drivers is that they do it to,suit them self
Its people with,attitudes like you that ruined this job.
And its opinions lie yours that maintains a low hourly wage and long unsociable hours.
You keep coming up with,all that spiel from,Europe about case law.
Truck drivers are different.
the UK should not have been allowed to opt out.
The UK should withdraw from the working time directive because they can’t jack it
Funny that, I work very little, but am at a firm that value their employees, our basic is more than most firms overtime, and we have to have 12hrs off between shifts, but then again we have trucks but not into haulage. FYI my average at present is 35hrs over a 26 week period.
I also do work for your ex employer, and have never been told to bang it on POA. As a matter of fact they leave it up to you what you do. I agree, if its in your contract then you do have to be paid for stand off days, but the majority of contracts out there don’t include that.
I do agree the there shouldn’t have been an opt out, or POA introduced. But to say that we should withdraw from the WTD, hows that going to help cut the unsocial long hours? Cut the POA and breaks and make it 48hrs average from book on to book off. Thats the only way you’ll change the industry, until then its a case of get used to it or get out!!!
The industry follows these guidelines.
Period of availability can be as little as 1 minute.
Periods of inactivity whilst waiting for vehicle or trailer to return to depot.
Periods of inactivity whilst waiting to be called into a loading bay. Moving up in a loading bay queue does not invalidate a poa, it merely interrupts it.
A poa cake be any length of time.
Time waiting stationary in a queue.
All the mentioned examples are wrong.
This is from a leading transport haulier who other transport hauliers compete against.
If this is the way they do it,at the,top then how can smaller operators compete.
They can’t compete.
The industry is working its drivers into the ground.
They are sure getting there pound of
.
long hours and low pay.
Seidel head