I heard a comment of get used to it or get out before, the answer was you get out as this industry is regulated and always has been.
Get used to this,
Its going to change.
No to working time abuse.
The reason I say withdraw From the directive is because minister us following it.
At least then workers would know how it is.
Long hours and low pay.
Your lucky you work for a decent employer.
Many don’t.
Obviously some companies are good but a lot are not.
Look up Felixstowe drivers and unite union furious over working time abuse.
Take your head out of the clouds and have a look.
I like to say that if my employer called me in to sit on my bum on POA for 3 days and paid me for the privilege why not, I find a truck that no ones using or plug my pc in at the canteen put my PC on and watch all the TV or films I have missed over the long hour I done to support my family and give me a reasonable life in a job that I Love and career I always wanted to do.
If you have to work long hours to make a decent living then so be it, the transport industry ii one of the most over worked and under paid job you can do, but you have companies that follow the RTD to the letter and look at what there did for you, there realised that you are going to not meet your 48 hours working time in 17 weeks, and brought you in to sit down, and do sweet fa. what an employer. there not to many that would do that.
But you could of avoided this by keeping you own record of you hours, and in formed them that you going to exceed you RTD hours in this reference period, but no you want the over time, the extra money and there you have it in a nut shell, you chose to do the hours. and look you got paid for sitting on your bum.
You got it do wrong.
Point one is I was told I could not plug my lap top into the plug. Or radio.
Point two I offered to go home with no pay.
Point 3 I refused to work week ends, they didn’t like,that.
I didn’t want to work 71 hours in 5 days.
Maybe you do.
I think its,dangerously.
You say get,another job.
Why should i.e.
I’m good at the job I do.
I’ve been,a HGV driver for 15years and I can,enjoy it.
I don’t like working illegally.
Its messing the job up.
Is it to much to,ask that I,want to,work legally.
There us a solution and its not be hacking my job in or breaking the law.
At least I tried to obey the regulations, and I was correct in my interpretation.
The drivers that fiddle the hours have messed the job up for a lot.
Nobody wants to end up cab happy.
What’s the problem with following the rule of law.
Why can’t you all work legally.
Slag me of if you like.
I’m just trying to point out what’s going on.
Cheers mate.
But where has it got you?
The problem is that if your not happy doing it, there is someone out there who is. Maybe people are running illegally in your eyes, but they are just interpreting the rules accordingly. Until some prosecutions are made nothing will change.
Haulage will always be low payed, especially now that alot of the skill has gone from the job. For alot of firms your just a steering wheel attendant who drives from A to B as directed by the planners. Short of a whole new set of hours nothing will change, it hasn’t in the 16yrs I’ve been doing it.
Were you actually working for all those 70 hrs? Or were you just on duty for parts of it (i.e waiting to be tipped ect)
Can I also ask have you found work since?
I was sacked in the middle if the recession
I was out if work for 8 months.
I racked up 10.000 grand of debt
I started with bratts,then Fowler Welch,Argos with the agency, I worked in an office for a while as a customer service.
I worked a while at a company in Trafford park, they liked to overload and the vehicles were an utter calamity.
Since then I’ve worked the last two years at,■■?.
Best not say, might be a clause somewhere that I shouldn’t.
But I can say I get in brilliant with the drivers,
The managers ,well that’s another story.
I was asked to resign. a few moths ago,because I won’t work weekends.you see if I work weekends in my eyes and apparently the laws eyes,I will be working to much.
And its true, I love the weekends.
I go out with my wife and two sons
My work environment is complicated to say the least.
Oh and my job is similar to delivering fuel.
I work non stop, well until I asked about my working time average.
I’ve seen it all.
Drivers crying,and head in the clouds,with the fairies.
It may be ok for some to work long hours,sometime,but not all the time.
Another solution is pay everybody a salary.
A decent salary and reduce the hours, or more statutory holidays.
,don’t even mention the self employed.
,put the rates up.
Tax relief
,you set sounds like it will never change.
dieseldave:
Ross v stobart:
When you record rest and periods of availability from 2011 the law states that rest periods spent at the workstation are deemed as work, minus your statutory break.Would you tell us exactly which “law” this is please?
Any chance of an answer please ?
Mr Ross■■? Do you have a different mother tongue to many on here?
The way it works is this.
The,regulations came into act in 2005, there were statutory amendment 635,
In the judgment Ross v stobart, it determined the workstation. Cab and site and other places of business.
For the driver legally to record poa he must be,able to do,as,he,wishes ,like leave,the,site,
You wouldn’t do so for minutes, its like maybe 1 or 2 hours or more.
All whilst recording poa.
Time spent at the workstation ,cab or site, is work.
It depends on if the driver considers that he needs to,stay on site.
It states in the judgement that rest time spent on site ,was work time.
The court was a high court and was a court of record.
Legal guidelines can be interpreted by examining the most recent confirmation of the lawful interpretation.
I don’t work in a job where there is much idle time.
I also don’t think that handing in your truck keys and sitting in a room full of drivers for two hours is rest.
Regards.
Ross v stobart:
The way it works is this.
The,regulations came into act in 2005, there were statutory amendment 635,
In the judgment Ross v stobart, it determined the workstation. Cab and site and other places of business.
For the driver legally to record poa he must be,able to do,as,he,wishes ,like leave,the,site,
You wouldn’t do so for minutes, its like maybe 1 or 2 hours or more.
All whilst recording poa.
Time spent at the workstation ,cab or site, is work.
It depends on if the driver considers that he needs to,stay on site.
It states in the judgement that rest time spent on site ,was work time.
The court was a high court and was a court of record.
Legal guidelines can be interpreted by examining the most recent confirmation of the lawful interpretation.
I don’t work in a job where there is much idle time.
I also don’t think that handing in your truck keys and sitting in a room full of drivers for two hours is rest.
Regards.
Hi Ross
I have just read all of that on the web, and you lost the tribunal and then appealed, and won the appeal
what happened at the new tribunal that was order to be done
Result
We have, we think, said sufficient to show that the appeal must be allowed and the matter remitted to be re-heard entirely afresh by a differently constituted Tribunal.
We think it is highly desirable that a case management discussion should be held first to list carefully the issues which the full hearing will consider and to ensure so far as practicable that all sides are ready for the full hearing.
so do you have a link to that case please
I don’t know what all the,fuss,was about.
I know drivers who like me .only work days.
I think tramping is different,should have,separate conditions.
The problem I have is the employers ,industry, want to utilize the max on the,hgv.
Its greed really.
You could say there should be,all day and you would get nothing.
The law is there to help.
Its never really been followed like the,driving regulations.
Obviously there,are different scenarios but I have mostly known of lets say tipper drivers.on a motorway,
I’ve done that got an epic card.
Time waiting to load
Time waiting to tip
Its all work really.
Not like you can pop off is it.
Some employers set the digital tacho to default to break.
Avoidance or evasion.
I’m going to have to go ,the circadian clock is ticking.
The two judgments that may be if interest are URTU v DFT
And Ross v stobart.
If you type peter Ross v Eddie stobart into google it comes up first.
The link takes you to the judgment.
HR Today July 2011 - Intellect Technology Association www.intellectuk.org › HR TodayJul 20, 2011 — Lack of clarity in policies - Liberty Living plc v Mr Allan Reid … on site is classed as working time - Ross v Eddie Stobart Ltd This case concerns an HGV driver,Peter Ross, who was …
Ross v stobart:
The way it works is this.
The,regulations came into act in 2005, there were statutory amendment 635,
In the judgment Ross v stobart, it determined the workstation. Cab and site and other places of business.
For the driver legally to record poa he must be,able to do,as,he,wishes ,like leave,the,site,
You wouldn’t do so for minutes, its like maybe 1 or 2 hours or more.
All whilst recording poa.
Time spent at the workstation ,cab or site, is work.
It depends on if the driver considers that he needs to,stay on site.
It states in the judgement that rest time spent on site ,was work time.
The court was a high court and was a court of record.
Legal guidelines can be interpreted by examining the most recent confirmation of the lawful interpretation.
I don’t work in a job where there is much idle time.
I also don’t think that handing in your truck keys and sitting in a room full of drivers for two hours is rest.
Regards.
I don’t think you are cut out for road transport although I wouldn’t say that on a public forum!
We have to work with the rules we have, none of which are in your above post.
They don’t use words like, like, maybe or do as he wishes.
They use words like recuperate, rest, shall and being available to start work.
(1) A period shall not be treated as a period of availability unless the mobile worker knows before the start of the relevant period about that period of availability and its reasonably foreseeable duration.
(2) The time spent by a mobile worker, who is working as part of a team, travelling in, but not driving, a moving vehicle as part of that team shall be a period of availability for that mobile worker.
(3) Subject to paragraph (4) a period of availability shall not include a period of rest or a break. The reason why VOSA allow a second driver to count THE FIRST 45 minutes of POA as a break.
(4) A period of availability may include a break taken by a mobile worker during waiting time or time which is not devoted to driving by the mobile worker and is spent in a moving vehicle, a ferry or a train.
I can only say what’s in the public domain
Can’t speculate to,accumulate.
I m just puzzled by the general lack of,regard for what is,quite an important requirement.
Driving on todays roads hgv are involved in a disproportion amount of fatal accidents.
I just thought ,I wonder if working so many hours has anything to do with it. ■■? .
Ross v Eddie Stobart Ltd - People Management Magazine Online www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/…/ross-v- …Jun 17, 2011 — Ross v Eddie Stobart Ltd. Most UK employees’ hours and breaks and so on are governed by the …
Yes but you don’t actually work all those hrs do you. So sitting in an rdc on your backside drinking coffee is working is it god help you if you get a real job in the real world
Sent from my Windows Phone 8X by HTC using Board Express
like i said i have read all those what happened at the new hearing
His claim for unfair dismissal was therefore sent back for a re-hearing
so what happened when it was re heard or as it not yet been heard 
so as your appeal was on
EMPLOYMENT APPEAL TRIBUNAL
At the Tribunal
On 14 January 2011
Judgment handed down on 16 May 2011
So from the 16 th of may 2011 till now as there been a new hearing , becouse if there as not then why have you taken this long to talk about this. if there as been one what happen at that hearing and can you show a link to it .
when was the new hearing and what happend there
I don’t believe that Mr.Ross understands the Judgement. It clarifies what everyone else already knew!!(As regards POA) and that is if your hours are up your employer can’t make you come into work and sit there on POA when you can’t go to work anyway.
Mr.Ross’s interpretation of it is that if you can’t go shopping then its not POA ! 
The claimant Mr Ross, lost the case.
It was complicated.
I won the battle but lost the war.
.i’m just talking about the regulation. I was right on that point.
It was proven that the respondent didn’t comply ,but it didn’t matter,
Its to complicated to explain.
I suppose you should go as they go,rather than what your supposed to do
I don’t know,whats the point in having a driver card and listening to all the spiel on this and that.
Mobile workers don’t have the right to apply to the tribunal for refusing to contravene the rtr regulations.
You see my problem is.
If I work for,say Bobbie haulage and I work the maximum,its driving and handball or pump trucks. Really busy,20 drops, and collections.
The guy had to bang it on POA, or its,set to default to break.