Hi all.Orys,i find the remark about '‘young ones paying for old ones to have a comfy retirement’'deeply offensive.The vast majority of old people have spent all there life paying into the social system IN THEIR OWN country with the expectation of a comfortable old age,which is everyones right.This has always been the case that one generation pays for the next with the hope that the system will continue to function.The majority of your ‘‘eastern colleagues’’ pay as little as possible into the social system of the country where they work and contribute little to the local economy living either in the truck or 10 or more sharing a house. The greater part of any earnings is sent back to the ‘‘home country’’.
BUT,i can guarantee that as soon as they themselves are old ,they will waste no time in claiming any,and all money they think they have accrued in the country they have worked in to the last penny.
I have no doubt that you yourself will not be slow in claiming any monies when you are sitting in Poland in your old age.
Or better still, go and enjoy Poland whilst he’s still young. It’s MUCH better there after all! 
hutpik:
Hi all.Orys,i find the remark about '‘young ones paying for old ones to have a comfy retirement’'deeply offensive.The vast majority of old people have spent all there life paying into the social system IN THEIR OWN country with the expectation of a comfortable old age,which is everyones right. This has always been the case that one generation pays for the next with the hope that the system will continue to function
I do agree, but there is nothing offensive with saying that the present working generation just can’t copy with the number of old age people. It is very simple economical fact. And you, living in Sweden, should be fully aware of that, as as I heard this topic was (or still is) discussed widely in your country and the reforms to the social system are on the way (or happening already, the last time I was reading about Sweden was, I think, about 6 months ago, I am not up do date).
This problem is simply due to change in demographic balance: In older time, when having 3 or 4 kids was a norm, that system could work well… Nowadays more and more families have one child or decide to do not have kids at all, and at the same time thanks to progress in medicine average life expectancy rises, there is simply not enough money in the system to fulfill that expectations - simple because the system haven’t changed, but proportions between number of working people and retired people is changing drastically. This has nothing to do with nationalities, countries or anything, it is just common thing for all developed countries.
The majority of your ‘‘eastern colleagues’’ pay as little as possible into the social system of the country where they work and contribute little to the local economy living either in the truck or 10 or more sharing a house.
I am fed up with that ■■■■■■■■ alredy, I’ve been fighting that myth for years, but I try again: the vast majority of Eastern European collegues of mine are normal people just as you or any other forum member. The vast majority of them are not happy to share house with 10 other people or live in the truck, just as vast majority of British people are not happy. But off course, there are some examples of people who do that, just as there is some amount of British people who share flats, or British citizens who live the life of travellers. This will be always true for all the nation, but please do not generalise about that.
Vast majority of Eastern European people here are just trying to have normal life… They buy houses if they can afford, if they cannot, they rent the houses, mostly on the free market. Sometimes they apply for council flat. This people do not bring their food from Eastern Europe in jars, they buy food here, just as they do not board Ryanair flat with bucket of Polish petrol in one hand and box of Polish electricity in another one - they do live here, they pay local taxes, buy energy from local providers, have mobile phones, internet access, taxed and moted cars etc.
Off course, some of them have second homes in Poland or they send money to their families - but this is not so common as you try to show. And there is nothing wrong with this - Britons, who have second homes in Spanish riviera do exactly the same, and nobody seems to have any issues with them driving money out of this country…
Moreover: There is virtually NO retired persons here*, vast majority of Eastern European migrants are healthly, young people, or at least in working age, who came here to WORK (as the fairy tale about Poles getting benefits before they disembarked the plane in Luton are another fairly tales, you need to pay in first for 24 months to be able to claim any non-working benefits).
As the data for 2008 or 2009 year (I don’t remember, you can use search engine, I quoted the source on several occasions ) show, in Scotland only 7% of Polish people were claiming some benefits compared to about 30% of Britons claiming benefits. So as for now, the Eastern European young people who work here and pay taxes here, support British social system (as they pay in more than they take out), and harming Polish social system, as all the old people are still there, while about 2 000 000 of workforce emigrated to various countries of the EU and beyond.
The greater part of any earnings is sent back to the ‘‘home country’’.
This is off course ■■■■■■■■. You can’t sent back “greater part of any earning” as most of the Eastern Europeans here work in low paid works, and they have to eat, drink, use electricity and so on. If you earn 240 pounds per week, you can hardly sent “greater part” of your earnings back to Poland even if you live in a shabby caravan with 5 of your workmates…
BUT,i can guarantee that as soon as they themselves are old ,they will waste no time in claiming any,and all money they think they have accrued in the country they have worked in to the last penny.
I can’t see problem here: you said it is all right if you worked somewhere all your life paying your taxes and everything than when you get old, you expect retiremend. Suddenly it is not all right when resident of Eastern European origin is doing that? So where, according to you, they should claim their retirement if not in the country where they worked for the whole (or most) of their lifes?
I have no doubt that you yourself will not be slow in claiming any monies when you are sitting in Poland in your old age.
If i will grow old by working in UK, you are right, I will be claiming my retirement here, because I will deserve it if I paid my taxes here for the majority of my life (some percentage of my retirement will be paid from Poland for this few years I worked back there before I came here). And if I paid my fair share of taxes to earn my retirement, it will be none of your business if I decide to spent it in UK, in Poland, in Cote d’Azur or in Burkina Faso.
*) if we speak about new wave of imigration, the post-2004 one. Off course there is plenty of retired Polish people who came here after the war or in 1968 for example.
Does anyone even read this? The man is like a mule…Stubborn as ■■■■.
Them people living in caravans at every farm I go to must be an illusion !!
turnip:
Them people living in caravans at every farm I go to must be an illusion !!
Same as all those lorry drivers i see evrey weekend in Hamburg hafen taking a weekly break in a truck instead of a hotel
I wonder how much a 32 yearold student has paid into the system? Here in Germany such students are frowned upon at that age not contributing into the system
Very strange then.There are Poles,Romanians,Lithuanians and Estonians all working up here and ALL of them live mob handed in houses.I have spoken to them as they work in the same industry as i do,mining and building.Without exception they all say the same.‘‘We make more money here,we live together so that we can send the bulk of our wages home,we are self employed so we don’t have to pay social costs in Sweden so we can work cheaper and still make good money’’.We go home in the Autumn having made enough to see us through the winter.
Obviously the employers are partly to blame but if the eastblock people did not offer themselves cheaply then the situation would not exist and people would be employed for their ability,not their cheapness.
I have lived and worked in various countries and have NEVER been asked to work for anything less than the same rates and conditions than a local person and have never heard of any expat who has even if they don’t speak the language.
If i do the same job as a local then i expect to be treated the same.You employ me for my ability,not because you get 2 for the price of 1.
hutpik:
Very strange then.There are Poles,Romanians,Lithuanians and Estonians all working up here and ALL of them live mob handed in houses.I have spoken to them as they work in the same industry as i do,mining and building.Without exception they all say the same.‘‘We make more money here,we live together so that we can send the bulk of our wages home,we are self employed so we don’t have to pay social costs in Sweden so we can work cheaper and still make good money’’.We go home in the Autumn having made enough to see us through the winter.
Obviously the employers are partly to blame but if the eastblock people did not offer themselves cheaply then the situation would not exist and people would be employed for their ability,not their cheapness.
I have lived and worked in various countries and have NEVER been asked to work for anything less than the same rates and conditions than a local person and have never heard of any expat who has even if they don’t speak the language.
If i do the same job as a local then i expect to be treated the same.You employ me for my ability,not because you get 2 for the price of 1.
He will just contradict every,single one of these facts and write more paragraphs and use more quotes than necessary…AGAIN!
Hi Bigvern.Unfortunately the gentleman in question seems to be under the illusion that we have little or no knowledge of the world in general and as an island nation have lived our lives in a sort of cocoon.It seems to be pointless to try and correct this illusion as it seems to be a residue of the old socialist mentality whereby what the state told you was ‘‘the word of god’’ and anything other than that is irrelevant or blatantly false.
I am nearly 62[really old]and have lived in Holland,Afghanistan,Canada and now Sweden.I drove to the M.E.in the 70s\80s,drove for Sovtrans for a time to the U.S.S.R and also drove in Canada.But compared to a student who was not even born when i was driving to the east block, as Manuel from Fawlty Towers would say ‘‘I know nooothing’’.Sad ain’t it.Mike
turnip:
Them people living in caravans at every farm I go to must be an illusion !!
The farms and market gardens around Hesketh Bank, Banks and Hoole (where I live) have had immigrant workers long before Poland etc joined the EU. Contary to popular belief many brits work (just as hard) on these farms too.
The main reason why immigrant workers are popular is because the labour intensive work is seasonal. When the work ends the immigrants move on or go home.
W
bigvern1:
Does anyone even read this? The man is like a mule…Stubborn as [zb].
It’s not mandatory, you know? You were saying farewell to that thread already several times.
Was I? Can’t wait to say goodbye to you…From Dover.
turnip:
Them people living in caravans at every farm I go to must be an illusion !!
Well, I delivered to many farms that do not have any seasonal workers… But this is as it is: seasonal workers. Remember, there was this TV reportage when journalists were asking British yobs, offering them to work at the farm for 7.50 or something… They were laughed at. This is why you need seasonal workers. Farm workers of ANY nationality are not worth being paid 12 per hour or whatever these young people would be happy to rise their bums from theirs sofa.
I wonder how much a 32 yearold student has paid into the system? Here in Germany such students are frowned upon at that age not contributing into the system
I am here permanently since 2006. First two years I was working full time, then I started my studies with a year gap between second and third year while I worked full time in very well paid job. Despite me being a student, I work part time as a driver whenever possible, apart from that I used to be police interpreter, I still do occasionally some translations, I am free lance journalist and I occasionaly do other jobs. I pay taxes from everything - either through my employers or through my self employment. During teaching periods I usualy earn a sum of what I would get if I worked full time at minimum wage, my average for last year I was working full time was slightly over 490 per week… I never claimed any benefits, working tax credits, housing benefits or anything such, the only thing is that my fees are paid by SAAS, as they are by rule to every EU citizen. So I dare to tell that despite being a student, I paid in taxes more than many Britons of my age did.
hutpik:
Very strange then.There are Poles,Romanians,Lithuanians and Estonians all working up here and ALL of them live mob handed in houses.
I know at least five Polish people who live in Sweden and who do not live in mobbed houses and work the way you describe. So you just proved my point: you are not interested in facts, you just sell your ■■■■■■■■ and you even stress that ALL people are like that, which is off course not true. I do not deny that there are people like that, but saying that they are ALL like this its simply a lie and you well know this, because you are not stupid. If you were bothered enough to check some statistics, you would see it for yourself (sadly, I can’t speak Swedish so I can’t help you on that, but I am sure that there was some research done into it so if you only wanted to know the truth, you will find it. But you are not interested in truth, you are happy with your statement that ALL Eastern Europeans are like that… What I can say, some bivern descriptions about being stubborn obviously are aimed at wrong person…
I have lived and worked in various countries and have NEVER been asked to work for anything less than the same rates and conditions than a local person and have never heard of any expat who has even if they don’t speak the language.
I live in UK six years, it was once expected from me that I will work more for the some money as my scottish collegues, I changed the job as soon as it was possible, they asked another Polish driver to do the same and he just slammed the doors and went home. I do admit that I do know some people who agree to do stuff like that, but since I am well involved within wide Polish community (at present from the media side, before as a translator) I can assure you that from my observation such people are very small minority and are generrally considered withing Polish community as idiots who spoil the job market for others - just as the other normal people see them, regardless of their nationality. From the other hand, I was once on the interview with a Scottish driver and when I was offered a job, he shouted that he is willing to do the same job for 50 pounds less per week, so such idiots can be found amongst any nation. Altough off course, as Harry Monk pointed out rightly just the amount of the Eastern European workers who flooded this country was enough to bring the wages down on a simply laws of supply and demand.
If i do the same job as a local then i expect to be treated the same.You employ me for my ability,not because you get 2 for the price of 1.
You do have exactly the same attitude as I do, and as do have vast majority of Eastern Europeans I met during my six year life in UK.
billybigrig:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg_8knBHEyw
This is a briliant picture to illustrate the thread… I am the guy in blue here, as I give you obvious facts, but some of you know better and don’t want to listen and because I don’t want to change my opinion only because this guys won’t, they start to behave like idiots… One user especially comes to my mind here, his nick starts with early letter of the alphabet and finish with the number… It would be even better if the donkey at the end told the blue guy, that he speaks too much 
bigvern1:
He will just contradict every,single one of these facts and write more paragraphs and use more quotes than necessary…AGAIN!
I am sorry that you don’t know how to quote just the bits you are refering to… And as you could see, I did not contradicted every single (are you sure there should be coma between these two words?) of the facts, I just contradicted the bits that werent facts.
hutpik:
Hi Bigvern.Unfortunately the gentleman in question seems to be under the illusion that we have little or no knowledge of the world in general and as an island nation have lived our lives in a sort of cocoon.
Well, altough I would attach it to the mentality rather than to geografic position of your country, what I can do that you keep proving me right on this… For example this sentence:
It seems to be pointless to try and correct this illusion as it seems to be a residue of the old socialist mentality whereby what the state told you was ‘‘the word of god’’ and anything other than that is irrelevant or blatantly false.
…proves how little your understanding of living under socialist regime is…
I am nearly 62[really old]and have lived in Holland,Afghanistan,Canada and now Sweden.I drove to the M.E.in the 70s\80s,drove for Sovtrans for a time to the U.S.S.R and also drove in Canada.But compared to a student who was not even born when i was driving to the east block, as Manuel from Fawlty Towers would say ‘‘I know nooothing’’.Sad ain’t it.Mike
The quality of knowledge is not necesarly related to the lenght of truck driving experience, as you continue to proving here…
AlexWignall:
The main reason why immigrant workers are popular is because the labour intensive work is seasonal. When the work ends the immigrants move on or go home.
This is very good point when it comes to the farm workers… If the work is seasonal, by using migrant workers you gain, as even if they put a little to the system, after the season is finished, they go home and you don’t need to pay them a dole for the rest of the year…
bigvern1:
Was I? Can’t wait to say goodbye to you…From Dover.
If you can’t don’t wait. As you could wait a long time…
Honestly Orys, life was better for working-class people in the UK before you lot turned up. I don’t see how you could consider yourself qualified to dispute that, although I’m sure you will.
FYI Orys you are NOT the one in blue 
Harry Monk:
Honestly Orys, life was better for working-class people in the UK before you lot turned up. I don’t see how you could consider yourself qualified to dispute that, although I’m sure you will.
I do not deny that, as we already agreed (or at least I thought we did). My points here are different:
- altough influx of eastern europeans has significant impact, they are not to blame for all bad that happen to britain over last 8 years, as there were other factors (for example: credit crunch) that influenced life of people here.
- claims like the ones you can read here by tones like “ALL Eastern Europeans this” and “Every Eastern European that” are just stupid.
billybigrig:
FYI Orys you are NOT the one in blue
Translation of above into the cartoon language: Orys, Kevin Bacon was NOT in Foot Loose, you lost, YYYYaaaahhaaaaaaaaa!!!" 
I’m depressed.It seems that for the last 46yrs i’ve travelled and worked all round the world without learning anything according to Orys.I think i have to go back to Tibet and ask for my money back as all the time i spent in the lammasary contemplating the meaning of existence and the path to enlightenment was wasted.I would have been better off just to spend a weekend with Orys then the meaning of life would be clear and i would be enlightened plus i would have saved all my university fees. 
As for the rest,maybe i should have gotten all my knowledge from books like Orys then i could say i am an intellectual .
AlexWignall:
turnip:
Them people living in caravans at every farm I go to must be an illusion !!The farms and market gardens around Hesketh Bank, Banks and Hoole (where I live) have had immigrant workers long before Poland etc joined the EU. Contary to popular belief many brits work (just as hard) on these farms too.
The main reason why immigrant workers are popular is because the labour intensive work is seasonal. When the work ends the immigrants move on or go home.
W
Maybe ! But in the area I live in ( devon )ost farms are dairy or livestock. Year round operations. And a lot ( not all ) have east Europeans living in caravans whilst working on the farms. One I know quite well has been on the same farm in the same caravan for about 6 years. Nice chap actually.
Tomasz…I don’t feel the need to quote every, single thing that people post to get a point across.
And the only “coma” of any significance on this thread. Is the one I shall be in after reading the last ■■■■■■■■ you wrote. Goodnight and hopefully…Goodbye!