Was talking to an old Army mate earlier that I used to do general haulage with when we both left the services and he asked me if I remember that old Scammel that had the 3rd and 4th gear arse about face… I said I’m pretty sure that was a Seddon Atkinson as I drove a few hundred miles in it till I figured it out lol… he said it was a scammy.
Anyone else remember a seddon with the gears back to front? Or was it really a scammel? 
andy_s:
Was talking to an old Army mate earlier that I used to do general haulage with when we both left the services and he asked me if I remember that old Scammel that had the 3rd and 4th gear arse about face… I said I’m pretty sure that was a Seddon Atkinson as I drove a few hundred miles in it till I figured it out lol… he said it was a scammy.Anyone else remember a seddon with the gears back to front? Or was it really a scammel?
Your right the Sed/Atk did originally have the gear change “back to front”, those wallies at Seddons were to blame ! The Scammells had that “Gate” change set up IIRC, some of the Lads on the site will be able to relate more about the Scammell gear change. Cheers Bewick.
No idea about Scammel,but Seddon Atkinson did have that configuration.A 9 speed Fuller as I remember.
Thanks chaps, feel better knowing I was right… I think his Scammell was a Crusader, or maybe a 118M? Or are they the same thing lol… Good days they were but sadly my memory isn’t as good as it once was… nor is his 
The Seddon Atkinson had the double ‘U’ pattern , same as the Crusader if they had the 9 speed Fuller, but they were not backwards like the early DAF 2800.
Dieseldog66:
The Seddon Atkinson had the double ‘U’ pattern , same as the Crusader if they had the 9 speed Fuller, but they were not backwards like the early DAF 2800.
Used to drive a DAF 2800, think it was a class 2 chassis… used to like the exhauster button on the floor in front of the accelerator pedal, gave off a right deep grunty roar… used it a lot.
Dieseldog66:
The Seddon Atkinson had the double ‘U’ pattern , same as the Crusader if they had the 9 speed Fuller, but they were not backwards like the early DAF 2800.
I’m curious now! I didn’t know the early 2800s had a 9-speed Fuller. I knew the Continental ones had a 13-speed Fuller (drove one). I also knew the later DKSE 2800 model had a 9-speed Fuller (UK version only - Continental version had a ZF synchro) (drove one). Robert
Sed Ak 400 and 200’s were back to front (due to the two piece gearlever) but I preferred that set up with the high gears away from the driver. Some Fodens with the Fuller 9 speed had 3rd and 4th gears reversed as well, though 1st and 2nd were normal.
Pete.
The shift pattern of the 9sp Fuller had nothing to do with which manufacturers chassis it was fitted to, but everything to do with the gearbox. The ‘standard option’ Fuller gearbox fitted in the higher power chassis built by Seddon Atkinson, Foden, ERF, Scammell etc in the 1970’s was the nine speed range-change RT(O) 9509A, which had the back-to-front 3rd and 4th gate position.
At the end of that decade, with engine BHP and torque figures rising, Eaton Fuller developed the nine speed range-change RTX 11609 A and B gearboxes which incorporated a clever linkage built into their top cover to enable the selectors of 3rd and 4th to be reveresed, giving a conventional gate pattern at the gear lever - the X in the model designation was only applied to gearboxes with this linkage. The RTX 11609 series was an excellent transmission, and remained very popular into the late 90’s.
ERF:
The shift pattern of the 9sp Fuller had nothing to do with which manufacturers chassis it was fitted to, but everything to do with the gearbox. The ‘standard option’ Fuller gearbox fitted in the higher power chassis built by Seddon Atkinson, Foden, ERF, Scammell etc in the 1970’s was the nine speed range-change RT(O) 9509A, which had the back-to-front 3rd and 4th gate position.At the end of that decade, with engine BHP and torque figures rising, Eaton Fuller developed the nine speed range-change RTX 11609 A and B gearboxes which incorporated a clever linkage built into their top cover to enable the selectors of 3rd and 4th to be reveresed, giving a conventional gate pattern at the gear lever - the X in the model designation was only applied to gearboxes with this linkage. The RTX 11609 series was an excellent transmission, and remained very popular into the late 90’s.
the RTX box in my b reg c series fell to bits in the middle of London ,still ran but made an awful noise coming back up the M1, Mr davis replaced the rtx with an older rto 9 speed . Might be me but I preferred rto over the rtx.
tony
tonyj105:
the RTX box in my b reg c series fell to bits in the middle of London ,still ran but made an awful noise coming back up the M1, Mr davis replaced the rtx with an older rto 9 speed . Might be me but I preferred rto over the rtx.
tony
Well…yes, I can see a good RTO might have some advantages over an expired RTX!.
The torque limit of the older RTO was quite a bit lower than the RTX, so it unlikely to have lasted as long in service if worked hard.
it was only about a year old when the rtx expired, but the rto did the job , motor was run at 38 gtw all the while on steel and bricks - steel out of corby to the NW and NE then reload out of Accrington or wakefield for mostly London and the SE , and only had an l10 250 in it.
ERF:
The shift pattern of the 9sp Fuller had nothing to do with which manufacturers chassis it was fitted to, but everything to do with the gearbox. The ‘standard option’ Fuller gearbox fitted in the higher power chassis built by Seddon Atkinson, Foden, ERF, Scammell etc in the 1970’s was the nine speed range-change RT(O) 9509A, which had the back-to-front 3rd and 4th gate position.At the end of that decade, with engine BHP and torque figures rising, Eaton Fuller developed the nine speed range-change RTX 11609 A and B gearboxes which incorporated a clever linkage built into their top cover to enable the selectors of 3rd and 4th to be reveresed, giving a conventional gate pattern at the gear lever - the X in the model designation was only applied to gearboxes with this linkage. The RTX 11609 series was an excellent transmission, and remained very popular into the late 90’s.
All true, ERF! But didn’t the pattern change to standard ‘H’ shift on the RT 9095 in about 1974/5, ie before the RTX came along? Pat Kennett commented on this particular change in his Euro Test in 1975 and noted how improved it was. Robert
tonyj105:
it was only about a year old when the rtx expired, but the rto did the job , motor was run at 38 gtw all the while on steel and bricks - steel out of corby to the NW and NE then reload out of Accrington or wakefield for mostly London and the SE , and only had an l10 250 in it.
An interesting one this Tony.
The standard gearbox behind a ■■■■■■■ LT10-250 in a C Series was the RTO9609 (correction - RTX7609). A lighter duty 'box than the RTX11609, which was fitted to many higher power engines, the smallest in terms of ERF being the LTA10-290.
I just wonder if HCD had changed the 'box previously in your unit for some reason?
robert1952:
…But didn’t the pattern change to standard ‘H’ shift on the RT 9095 in about 1974/5, ie before the RTX came along? Pat Kennett commented on this particular change in his Euro Test in 1975 and noted how improved it was. Robert
Do you mean the RT9509? - I take it 9059 is a typo Robert? I’ve never come across that designation, but that’s not to say it didn’t exist!.
All the Roadranger Transmissions were standard units Robert. The RT/RTO 9509 had the same respective gate pattern throughout its life, that’s not to say a chassis manufacturer didn’t perhaps try to alter it by some clever manipulation of the linkage to the gearbox, and Pat Kennett did find himself behind the wheel of most special and development vehicles it has to be said!.
All the nine-speed Fuller units are designed to a similar mechanical layout, and it would be impossible to alter the gate pattern inside the gearbox without the linkage fitted to the selector housing of the RTX units. Such a design change was always accompanied by change in designation, so there could be no confusion with service or parts.
ERF:
robert1952:
…But didn’t the pattern change to standard ‘H’ shift on the RT 9095 in about 1974/5, ie before the RTX came along? Pat Kennett commented on this particular change in his Euro Test in 1975 and noted how improved it was. RobertDo you mean the RT9509? - I take it 9059 is a typo Robert? I’ve never come across that designation, but that’s not to say it didn’t exist!.
All the Roadranger Transmissions were standard units Robert. The RT9509 had the same gate pattern throughout its life, that’s not to say a chassis manufacturer didn’t perhaps try to alter it by some clever manipulation of the linkage to the gearbox, and Pat Kennett did find himself behind the wheel of most special and development vehicles it has to be said!.
All the nine-speed Fuller units are designed to a similar mechanical layout, and it would be impossible to alter the gate pattern inside the gearbox without the linkage fitted to the selector housing of the RTX units. Such a design change was always accompanied by change in designation, so there could be no confusion with service or parts.
Thanks for that. And yes, it was a typo! Cheers, Robert
This is from memory only: The RT 9509 was a direct drive top gear 'box while the RTO 9509 was an overdrive top gear 'box. This meant that internally the two highest gears swapped positions on the mainshaft, hence a different lever movement. (That is not a true technical description but one which is easy to understand). The RTX 11*09 had what was called multimesh gears IIRC, which meant more teeth in contact so greater torque capacity.
Seddon Atkinson fitted numerous different gearboxes: David Brown, several models of Eaton Fuller and Spicer, ZF and I think the 16 tonners were Turner. The hundred series of vehicles required a reverse selection pattern. The hundred and one series and the hundred and eleven series had a normal linkage and pattern. Road testing in a dealership which also saw Fodens, the occasional DAF and military AECs and Oliver North Scammells regularly was an enlightening experience.
The gear selection on the Seddon 400 I once drove never really gave me any problems I know its something often brought up but it wasn’t really difficult, the Fuller boxes were excellent anyway and gear change’s a delight in the vehicles I drove with them in from Trans Cons, 400 and 401’s, ERF’s, the ZF double H shift in my Merc was more of a pain simply because I was up and down the flaming thing too much and the Scania box had that awkward low gear you had to dislocate your arm to engage which most drivers didn’t bother with. I’d be quite happy sticking with a 9 speed Fuller though it done all I wanted. Cheers Franky.
cav551:
This is from memory only: The RT 9509 was a direct drive top gear 'box while the RTO 9509 was an overdrive top gear 'box. This meant that internally the two highest gears swapped positions on the mainshaft, hence a different lever movement. (That is not a true technical description but one which is easy to understand). The RTX 11*09 had what was called multimesh gears IIRC, which meant more teeth in contact so greater torque capacity.Seddon Atkinson fitted numerous different gearboxes: David Brown, several models of Eaton Fuller and Spicer, ZF and I think the 16 tonners were Turner. The hundred series of vehicles required a reverse selection pattern. The hundred and one series and the hundred and eleven series had a normal linkage and pattern. Road testing in a dealership which also saw Fodens, the occasional DAF and military AECs and Oliver North Scammells regularly was an enlightening experience.
Yes, that all rings a bell. I think the first RTXs were fitted to C-series ERFs in the early '80s, but before that you could have ‘U’-shift or ‘H’-shift depending on which version of the 9509 you had. Cheers, Robert
Frankydobo:
The gear selection on the Seddon 400 I once drove never really gave me any problems I know its something often brought up but it wasn’t really difficult, the Fuller boxes were excellent anyway and gear change’s a delight in the vehicles I drove with them in from Trans Cons, 400 and 401’s, ERF’s, the ZF double H shift in my Merc was more of a pain simply because I was up and down the flaming thing too much and the Scania box had that awkward low gear you had to dislocate your arm to engage which most drivers didn’t bother with. I’d be quite happy sticking with a 9 speed Fuller though it done all I wanted. Cheers Franky.
I do agree with you. The SA 400 was not a real problem with its ‘U’-shift if you were driving one all the time; but if you were hopping in and out of ERFs, Mercs, MANs and god knows what else, it was a bind. Certainly I agree that the Fullers were a joy to use. I never liked those ZF synchro slap-across 'boxes in the Mercs because they were too stiff and ponderous. You mentioned the Scania 10-speed 'box and that dog-leg 1st/6th: in the LHD version it was no problem because you pulled the lever towards you, and - if you remember - the gates were slightly diagonally biased to the LHD position, even on the RHD ones! Cheers, Robert