switchlogic:
Talking load bearing curtains are chipliners still a thing or have they been done away with by walking floors?
Still about Luke, I see them regularly. Jenks et al run them
DJ Davies in West Wales where my Dad worked ran a couple and one day on a bend one gave way all over a small house. I think they were finding wood chips for years! Was early morning too I bet that woke them with a jolt. Surprised they’re still allowed in this over enthusiastic safety first world. Tho rarely see them give way so must be fairly solid
Carryfast:
Franglais:
As I read the maker`s guide, the curtain provides the necessary side restraint.The collapsed roof is the clue that it ultimately does no such thing.
Internal straps and/ior ‘load bearing’ curtains are all totally dependent on the strength and integrity of the roof structure holding them.
+1
I’m not seeing solid uprights on either side, so I would expect the load should be strapped as if it was on a flatbed. Curtains for wind and weather protection only.
As there is a positive fit, the straps may only have to be rated and tightened for sideways movement.
Noremac:
Carryfast:
Franglais:
As I read the maker`s guide, the curtain provides the necessary side restraint.The collapsed roof is the clue that it ultimately does no such thing.
Internal straps and/ior ‘load bearing’ curtains are all totally dependent on the strength and integrity of the roof structure holding them.+1
I’m not seeing solid uprights on either side, so I would expect the load should be strapped as if it was on a flatbed. Curtains for wind and weather protection only.
As there is a positive fit, the straps may only have to be rated and tightened for sideways movement.
The question wether one needs to strap a load in a curtainside trailer, is simple. Would you carry the load on a flatbed trailer, without any restraints? If so, crack on. If you would not, use the same restraints as you would on a flatbed. Timber has already been mentioned, and I’ll add steel, either bar or coils.
Franglais:
njl:
Franglais:
On the third image, is that white square on the curtain an EN-12642-XL cert? Fuzzy on my screen.
If so it doesn`t necessarily need strapping on every pallet to be legal.I may have made a big assumption based on finding 13 or more internal straps each side unless one or more is missing, but I didn’t know there was scope to miss a pallet with the internals on an xl trailer and still be 100%.
If you have a positive fit then you don`t need any internals.
From the earlier link.
gov.uk/government/publicati … f-vehicles“Trailers and vehicles built to the EN 12642 XL standard can withstand a minimum of 40% of the rated payload to the side - without extra load securing - when following the manufacturer’s guidance.
DVSA accept an EN 12642 XL rated vehicle/trailer keeping 50% of the rated payload to the side without any extra securing, as long as the load fills the entire load area to the front, rear and to within 80mm of the side. This is often called a ‘positive fit’.”Depending on the type of load etc etc, then internals might well be a good idea, but not necessary.
Here is Don Bur:https://donbur.co.uk/gb-en/docs/150908-EN-12642-XL-Laymans-Guide.pdf
It states that the side wall in an XL trailer is good for 50% load restraint, as required. No mention of additional straps.I
ve known these trailers driven like they were go-karts. The pallets 24T worth, collapsed but the load stayed inside the trailer. The same driver that manged that, rolled a fully laden truck on a motorway junction. They will do a lot, but there will always be someone who assumes that so long as half the wheels arent airborne they aren`t going too fast. When all the wheels do look up at the sky, then nothing much is any good.Box trailers won`t hold in a load with a determined numpty sat the wheel.
So, going by the official, and the manufacturers, specifications, the curtains of an XL rated trailer will be rated to hold up to 50% of the rated payload secure. A typical 44 ton artic trailer will typically hold around 26 pallets, so roughly 26 tonnes (if loaded full lenght…). So the XL trailer would only be capable of restraining a load of maximum 13 tonnes, or 26 pallets of rougly 500 kg each. Which makes a mockery of all those loading 26 full weight pallets, crossing the back straps, and thinking it’s ok.
Oh, and another thing. There is a big, big difference, between the load collapsing, and not falling of the trailer, but rendering the trailer/load all but unable to carry on (as above), or a load being secured within the original shape of the trailer, and being able to be driven onwards.
(The author of the post has more than five years daily experience of driving curtainsided trailers with Kegs, Boxed bottles of beer and wine, and many years of steel and timber. He is fully aware of the oxymoron, of securing pallets of cardboard boxes containing bottles, with ratchet straps. He is presently driving tankers, and has no intention to return to driving curtainsided trailers again)
Carryfast:
Franglais:
As I read the maker`s guide, the curtain provides the necessary side restraint.The collapsed roof is the clue that it ultimately does no such thing.
Internal straps and/ior ‘load bearing’ curtains are all totally dependent on the strength and integrity of the roof structure holding them.
Of course it does! Despite the partially collapsed roof the curtains have done there job as the cider is still in the trailer and not running down the road.
Assuming the pallets are properly wrapped and stacked he’s lucky he didn’t roll it over.
Bet he pooped himself on the bend when it let go lol. Dashcam footage be worth a laugh.
Franglais:
njl:
Franglais:
On the third image, is that white square on the curtain an EN-12642-XL cert? Fuzzy on my screen.
If so it doesn`t necessarily need strapping on every pallet to be legal.I may have made a big assumption based on finding 13 or more internal straps each side unless one or more is missing, but I didn’t know there was scope to miss a pallet with the internals on an xl trailer and still be 100%.
If you have a positive fit then you don`t need any internals.
From the earlier link.
gov.uk/government/publicati … f-vehicles“Trailers and vehicles built to the EN 12642 XL standard can withstand a minimum of 40% of the rated payload to the side - without extra load securing - when following the manufacturer’s guidance.
DVSA accept an EN 12642 XL rated vehicle/trailer keeping 50% of the rated payload to the side without any extra securing, as long as the load fills the entire load area to the front, rear and to within 80mm of the side. This is often called a ‘positive fit’.”Depending on the type of load etc etc, then internals might well be a good idea, but not necessary. .
Are the internal straps normally required as part of the “manufacturer’s guidance”?
stu675:
Franglais:
njl:
Franglais:
On the third image, is that white square on the curtain an EN-12642-XL cert? Fuzzy on my screen.
If so it doesn`t necessarily need strapping on every pallet to be legal.I may have made a big assumption based on finding 13 or more internal straps each side unless one or more is missing, but I didn’t know there was scope to miss a pallet with the internals on an xl trailer and still be 100%.
If you have a positive fit then you don`t need any internals.
From the earlier link.
gov.uk/government/publicati … f-vehicles“Trailers and vehicles built to the EN 12642 XL standard can withstand a minimum of 40% of the rated payload to the side - without extra load securing - when following the manufacturer’s guidance.
DVSA accept an EN 12642 XL rated vehicle/trailer keeping 50% of the rated payload to the side without any extra securing, as long as the load fills the entire load area to the front, rear and to within 80mm of the side. This is often called a ‘positive fit’.”Depending on the type of load etc etc, then internals might well be a good idea, but not necessary. .
Are the internal straps normally required as part of the “manufacturer’s guidance”?
As I read the Don Bur guide already linked, the side curtain restrains the sideways movement to the required standard.
The guide doesn`t say “side curtain plus straps” that I can see.
Try this
donbur.co.uk/gb-en/docs/150908- … -Guide.pdf
the nodding donkey:
Franglais:
njl:
Franglais:
On the third image, is that white square on the curtain an EN-12642-XL cert? Fuzzy on my screen.
If so it doesn`t necessarily need strapping on every pallet to be legal.I may have made a big assumption based on finding 13 or more internal straps each side unless one or more is missing, but I didn’t know there was scope to miss a pallet with the internals on an xl trailer and still be 100%.
If you have a positive fit then you don`t need any internals.
From the earlier link.
gov.uk/government/publicati … f-vehicles“Trailers and vehicles built to the EN 12642 XL standard can withstand a minimum of 40% of the rated payload to the side - without extra load securing - when following the manufacturer’s guidance.
DVSA accept an EN 12642 XL rated vehicle/trailer keeping 50% of the rated payload to the side without any extra securing, as long as the load fills the entire load area to the front, rear and to within 80mm of the side. This is often called a ‘positive fit’.”Depending on the type of load etc etc, then internals might well be a good idea, but not necessary.
Here is Don Bur:https://donbur.co.uk/gb-en/docs/150908-EN-12642-XL-Laymans-Guide.pdf
It states that the side wall in an XL trailer is good for 50% load restraint, as required. No mention of additional straps.I
ve known these trailers driven like they were go-karts. The pallets 24T worth, collapsed but the load stayed inside the trailer. The same driver that manged that, rolled a fully laden truck on a motorway junction. They will do a lot, but there will always be someone who assumes that so long as half the wheels arent airborne they aren`t going too fast. When all the wheels do look up at the sky, then nothing much is any good.Box trailers won`t hold in a load with a determined numpty sat the wheel.
So, going by the official, and the manufacturers, specifications, the curtains of an XL rated trailer will be rated to hold up to 50% of the rated payload secure. A typical 44 ton artic trailer will typically hold around 26 pallets, so roughly 26 tonnes (if loaded full lenght…). So the XL trailer would only be capable of restraining a load of maximum 13 tonnes, or 26 pallets of rougly 500 kg each. Which makes a mockery of all those loading 26 full weight pallets, crossing the back straps, and thinking it’s ok.
Oh, and another thing. There is a big, big difference, between the load collapsing, and not falling of the trailer, but rendering the trailer/load all but unable to carry on (as above), or a load being secured within the original shape of the trailer, and being able to be driven onwards.
(The author of the post has more than five years daily experience of driving curtainsided trailers with Kegs, Boxed bottles of beer and wine, and many years of steel and timber. He is fully aware of the oxymoron, of securing pallets of cardboard boxes containing bottles, with ratchet straps. He is presently driving tankers, and has no intention to return to driving curtainsided trailers again)
The load should be restrained (headboard, straps etc) against 1.0g “stopping forces”.
The side curtains only need to restrain 0.5P. The idea is to restrain the load against 0.5g “turning forces”.
Trucks generally wont be capable of more than that, theyll be rolling over before the load slips out.
The trailer and restraints are there to secure the load to the trailer in everyday use.
I dont think it is expected that the side sheets should be strong enough to turn the trailer onto its side, put chains on it and lift it with the load still intact. That seems to be what you expect from the sheets?
Re loading steel etc I agree that the vast majority of those loads would need straps or chains. Apart from anything else they wont be a positive fit, neither to sides nor headboard, and wont be bound onto pallets.
If a coil is bound correctly onto a pallet then strapping that plt to the bed might be enough…but I would prefer straps over the coil as well. But as I say I doubt they would often qualify as a positive fit anyway.
I too have many years (I`m an ole ■■■■ now) of general haulage work and a few years of tank work. 
My last gig involved a lot of bottles in cardboard boxes, shrink-wrapped or cling-filmed onto pallets. Using XL trailers then (mostly) no straps were needed to restrain side movement. I did use straps if the wrapping was suspect, the cartons were poorly stacked, etc, but normally not needed.
With kegs (only a few) they were not well secured to the pallets so I did strap them.
Oh! another one to be careful of is IBCs. The newer ones often have plastic bases which slide too well on trailer floors. I always strapped them.
And still on plastics: the newer plastic 210 liter barrels used for food and some chems seem to designed to be difficult to secure! The way they taper to both top and bottom makes them an awkward shape to tie/wrap down. Being an ole ■■■■ I remember the shape of the steel barrels we used had swages to stop ropes/straps/banding/wrapping sliding up or down. Much better design fro a transport point of view IMHO. I daresay there are reason new ones ended up that shape, but for us, they are a step backwards.
md1987:
Carryfast:
Franglais:
As I read the maker`s guide, the curtain provides the necessary side restraint.The collapsed roof is the clue that it ultimately does no such thing.
Internal straps and/ior ‘load bearing’ curtains are all totally dependent on the strength and integrity of the roof structure holding them.Of course it does! Despite the partially collapsed roof the curtains have done there job as the cider is still in the trailer and not running down the road.
Assuming the pallets are properly wrapped and stacked he’s lucky he didn’t roll it over.
Bet he pooped himself on the bend when it let go lol. Dashcam footage be worth a laugh.
So what you’re saying is that the fact that the roof has clearly predictably catastrophically collapsed, thereby totally compromising the so called load bearing curtain system, it’s all …the driver’s fault even though you’ve got no evidence of that.
The truth is it’s a clear example of the flaw in the idea of load bearing curtains.The curtains might be strong enough to hold the load but the bleedin roof structure ain’t.
Curtainsider’s are just flats that don’t need to be sheeted just like tilts.Load security is as required in the case of a flat.
Even box trailers are a grey area in which ideally there are anchorage points provided on the load deck for straps or nets etc.
Carryfast:
Franglais:
As I read the maker`s guide, the curtain provides the necessary side restraint.The collapsed roof is the clue that it ultimately does no such thing.
Internal straps and/ior ‘load bearing’ curtains are all totally dependent on the strength and integrity of the roof structure holding them.
I am talking about XL rated trailers. The trailer in the thread might/not be one.
Since there seems to be no side posts sticking out, maybe my earlier comments about the white sign on the sheet were wrong. Maybe it isn`t one.
Maybe it is rated as one but being improperly used? ie No side posts in place?
Be interesting if someone has more detail now we are a few days on.
Clearly the trailer, has, restrained the load. It isnt all over the floor. To expect any system to keep a load in place if (we dont know) the driver tries to over take a Fireblade on a roundabout, isn`t reasonable.
To back up my previous answer to Mr Donkey,
“When loaded to legal gross weight, the typical U.S.
five-axle tractor-van semitrailer combination has a
rollover threshold perhaps as high as 0.5 g with a highdensity, low center of gravity (cg) load, but as low as
0.25 g with the worst-case load-one which completely
fills the volume of the trailer while also reaching legal
gross weight.”
deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstrea … equence=22
page 2
I have already agreed that high density, low CofG loads (steel etc) will probably be secured with extra restraints/straps.
Franglais:
To back up my previous answer to Mr Donkey,"When loaded to legal gross weight, the typical U.S.
five-axle tractor-van semitrailer
Frequently…
Breaks in half.
switchlogic:
Talking load bearing curtains are chipliners still a thing or have they been done away with by walking floors?
Still very much a thing, I see them on the A1(M) on almost every journey, usually Dungait vehicles, most likely heading towards Egger in Hexham. Anyone who has been to Egger will know about their “20 Straps” rule 
yourhavingalarf:
Franglais:
To back up my previous answer to Mr Donkey,"When loaded to legal gross weight, the typical U.S.
five-axle tractor-van semitrailerFrequently…
Breaks in half.
OOOoopps
Frequently? And from the link…overloaded…
Anyway, looks funny if viewed from anywhere but the driver`s seat.
Actually that looks a rather like a chassis-less box trailer? Used several chassis-less boxes once upon a time: ex TIP Rental twin axle trailers. Put 24—(ish!) tons inside and they would creak, groan and complain loudly. Never saw one actually snap, but I reckon they must have been close to it frequently.
Franglais:
stu675:
Franglais:
njl:
Franglais:
On the third image, is that white square on the curtain an EN-12642-XL cert? Fuzzy on my screen.
If so it doesn`t necessarily need strapping on every pallet to be legal.I may have made a big assumption based on finding 13 or more internal straps each side unless one or more is missing, but I didn’t know there was scope to miss a pallet with the internals on an xl trailer and still be 100%.
If you have a positive fit then you don`t need any internals.
From the earlier link.
gov.uk/government/publicati … f-vehicles“Trailers and vehicles built to the EN 12642 XL standard can withstand a minimum of 40% of the rated payload to the side - without extra load securing - when following the manufacturer’s guidance.
DVSA accept an EN 12642 XL rated vehicle/trailer keeping 50% of the rated payload to the side without any extra securing, as long as the load fills the entire load area to the front, rear and to within 80mm of the side. This is often called a ‘positive fit’.”Depending on the type of load etc etc, then internals might well be a good idea, but not necessary. .
Are the internal straps normally required as part of the “manufacturer’s guidance”?
As I read the Don Bur guide already linked, the side curtain restrains the sideways movement to the required standard.
The guide doesn`t say “side curtain plus straps” that I can see.
Try this
donbur.co.uk/gb-en/docs/150908- … -Guide.pdf
Thanks [emoji106]
Franglais:
the driver tries to over take a Fireblade on a roundabout, isn`t reasonable.
You mean…I’m not supposed to?[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]
stu675:
Franglais:
the driver tries to over take a Fireblade on a roundabout, isn`t reasonable.You mean…I’m not supposed to?[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]
Not unless you’re running late and and the load is well tied to the deck not the roof.But it’s going to be a close race if he’s taking the same exit and it’s more than one lane on the exit.Outbrake him on entry is the best bet if it’s only the curtains holding it all on sideways.
m.a.n rules:
trucknet csi, i suspect he’s approahed that chicane a bit too fast…
No proof reading here it seems…….next………
Carryfast:
stu675:
Franglais:
the driver tries to over take a Fireblade on a roundabout, isn`t reasonable.You mean…I’m not supposed to?[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]
Not unless you’re running late and and the load is well tied to the deck not the roof.But it’s going to be a close race if he’s taking the same exit and it’s more than one lane on the exit.Outbrake him on entry is the best bet if it’s only the curtains holding it all on sideways.
Yeh I must try that next time I’m fully laden. Try and out brake one of the best handling motorcycles ever produced. See where I end up 