Hi,
I’m about to become an owner operator and obviously I’m in the market for a truck.
Is it better to lease new:
3 years lease 100k miles allowance with service and tax included for anything between £350-£380 per week + VAT
or
used
2013 Volvo FH 460 full volvo service history ex maritime vehicle priced at £36K however lease for 4 years is available at £200 per week
but I will have to pay the maintenance (how much in your experience per week)
Have a scroll through the last few pages in this part of the forum, a few recent ish threads on this very subject, with lots of very good ansewrs.
Everyone has different opinions, id do neither of what you suggested.
2013 Renault premiums to be had for 12k. Even after a year youll get at least half of that back.
Concretejim:
Have a scroll through the last few pages in this part of the forum, a few recent ish threads on this very subject, with lots of very good ansewrs.Everyone has different opinions, id do neither of what you suggested.
2013 Renault premiums to be had for 12k. Even after a year youll get at least half of that back.
Thank you
If I did it again I would lease one with a full R&M deal. I rode my luck and got away with it but a run of mechanical bad luck can easily send an owner down the pan.
Harry Monk:
If I did it again I would lease one with a full R&M deal. I rode my luck and got away with it but a run of mechanical bad luck can easily send an owner down the pan.
Since you are a bit of a legend on this forum I think I’ll take your advise especially that after reading some posts I developed a feeling that buying a used truck is a bit of a hit and miss. I don’t like to leave it to pure luck as I’m quite of an accountant type of person.
Driver Pete:
…Since you are a bit of a legend on this forum …
… Take a bow Harry, after how many years (■■) you are now the first official “Legend” on the T/N forums!! 
Edit… even if it`s only “a bit” of legend!! 
Well done mate!
It’s all been done to death before but the reason I favour outright ownership over finance or lease is because if anything goes wrong you can just hang up the keys for it and go down the job centre or phone an agency.
Own Account Driver:
It’s all been done to death before but the reason I favour outright ownership over finance or lease is because if anything goes wrong you can just hang up the keys for it and go down the job centre or phone an agency.
^^^
Precisely, and its probably the only way to go, from a standing start…
Beware of being stitched up on anything “lease” wise early on, get ahead of yourself and get a few bob put aside
Then you can start looking for “full on” deals which cover everything.
HM is speaking from experience, but to get that experience, you need to start at the bottom
And things change very quickly at the bottom
Own Account Driver:
It’s all been done to death before but the reason I favour outright ownership over finance or lease is because if anything goes wrong you can just hang up the keys for it and go down the job centre or phone an agency.
Ye but your forgetting most of the new start or wanabes haven’t got enough money to start with ,they can’t even afford stop for a ■■■■ ,that’s why they always commit to the pittance per mile job .
Concretejim:
Have a scroll through the last few pages in this part of the forum, a few recent ish threads on this very subject, with lots of very good ansewrs.Everyone has different opinions, id do neither of what you suggested.
2013 Renault premiums to be had for 12k. Even after a year youll get at least half of that back.
2012 ones to be got@ auction for £6k!!!
The ONLY way I’d go for 1st year O/D,
if all goes ■■■■ up truck still be worth £3k and not have a 3yr lease contract hanging over your head for £380week!!!
After 1st year you “know the craic” and change up accordingly,
as for all the “figure crunching” in the world won’t tell you if you can turn a PROFIT paying £380wk lease on new paint!!!
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
Each one of You make a lot of sense - I suppose it comes with experience.
When it comes to newbies who want to start here is my point of view.
I’ve got few grand saved up from my agency work but nowhere near enough what I need and I need (more-less):
now it would be a while to save the start up money so the bank can let me lets say £12000 and that will cost me £70 per week
which is reasonable I think. However what if the things go ■■■■ with the truck?
-Buying it at auction, isn’t that like buying kinder surprises?
-What is you personal experience with the auction?
-Isn’t that like someone mentioned that some O/D decide to flog they trucks when they realise that something bad is just about to happen and they think lets make it some other poor lad problem?
-Where is the best place to go and buy, or where is the reputable auction site that won’t take you for a ride?
Maritime offered me buy to work program but I said to them that I will not work for peanuts and that they trucks are well overpriced.
I managed to find companies there who will pay £1.50 per mile either loaded or empty.
On that quote I can turn a profit (weekly based on 1500 miles and diesel @£1.00 ex VAT of course) of £565 with new truck or £665 with a used one (that with £80 put aside for maintenance).
I don’t expect to become a millionaire but I would like to pay myself and save enough to eventually get another truck and give young lads with no experience a chance as I was struggling to get a job when I passed my class 1. I would like to invest in people as there plenty out there worth investing in.
I would advise on a start fund of £50k…out of this would come the truck, you won`t get much sense out of a bank regarding a loan at the start…fair weather friends, beware
£50k less a good “used” tractor, leaves a fighting fund to cope with everything that WILL come your way in the first few months.
Also, with this amount of “cash”, the licensing authority will take you seriously, any less and its questions, proof + hassle 
You can get a very good Volvo FH13 for less than £20k, pretty much bullet proof and something decent to drive everyday
Have you factored in the insurance element ?, this will be circa £5k for a start up venture.
I`d rent a trailer for the time being, just to suss out the “job”, a lot of potential customers will have you pulling their trailers or, you might get lucky, but the customer needs a 4.5m …then you have 4.0m sitting in the yard
It aint easy, thats for sure, and no doubt someone will disagree with my advice, i would just take in what everybody says, AND listen very carefully to your accountant
Stanley Mitchell:
I would advise on a start fund of £50k…out of this would come the truck, you won`t get much sense out of a bank regarding a loan at the start…fair weather friends, beware£50k less a good “used” tractor, leaves a fighting fund to cope with everything that WILL come your way in the first few months.
Also, with this amount of “cash”, the licensing authority will take you seriously, any less and its questions, proof + hassle
You can get a very good Volvo FH13 for less than £20k, pretty much bullet proof and something decent to drive everyday
Have you factored in the insurance element ?, this will be circa £5k for a start up venture.
I`d rent a trailer for the time being, just to suss out the “job”, a lot of potential customers will have you pulling their trailers or, you might get lucky, but the customer needs a 4.5m …then you have 4.0m sitting in the yard
It ain
t easy, thats for sure, and no doubt someone will disagree with my advice, i would just take in what everybody says, AND listen very carefully to your accountant
I can’t even dream of £50k at the moment. If I had that money then I would not be thinking of starting my own business as I would be probably doing very well already.
The reason I want to start the business is to earn that £50k. However if majority believe it isn’t doable to start without £50k in the bank then I suppose I will give up on the idea altogether
Driver Pete:
Stanley Mitchell:
I would advise on a start fund of £50k…out of this would come the truck, you won`t get much sense out of a bank regarding a loan at the start…fair weather friends, beware£50k less a good “used” tractor, leaves a fighting fund to cope with everything that WILL come your way in the first few months.
Also, with this amount of “cash”, the licensing authority will take you seriously, any less and its questions, proof + hassle
You can get a very good Volvo FH13 for less than £20k, pretty much bullet proof and something decent to drive everyday
Have you factored in the insurance element ?, this will be circa £5k for a start up venture.
I`d rent a trailer for the time being, just to suss out the “job”, a lot of potential customers will have you pulling their trailers or, you might get lucky, but the customer needs a 4.5m …then you have 4.0m sitting in the yard
It ain
t easy, thats for sure, and no doubt someone will disagree with my advice, i would just take in what everybody says, AND listen very carefully to your accountantI can’t even dream of £50k at the moment. If I had that money then I would not be thinking of starting my own business as I would be probably doing very well already.
The reason I want to start the business is to earn that £50k. However if majority believe it isn’t doable to start without £50k in the bank then I suppose I will give up on the idea altogether
Others may say something different, but after 40 years in this industry, I`ve always leaned towards being over cautious.
Nasty surprises are round every corner in this game, more so in your first year, so you need a bit of “fat” to fend off the sharks …
If being an O/D was easy, you would have everybody at it… to be successful, you need to be very cautious, but above all very trust worthy, or nobody will trade with you…
You will need to be able to pay your bills quickly at the start, to build relationships, having “fat” in the business enables this.
Being short from the start will bring incredible stress to the business and effect your well being…
Its not for the feint hearted or skint, that`s forsure…
I would not give up on the idea, just approach it in a realistic way. There are plenty of people tied to massive HP/ Leasing deals claiming they are living the dream, when the reality is they are like a hamster in a wheel. The thought of getting up every monday morning knowing I had to drive at least 1500 miles to make a wage makes we want to retch.
Not sure where you are based, but wherever you are, find the work that is local to you. I mean both locally based, and in work too. You then want to cost fully the first year with a cashflow forecast and a projected forecast for the second year with your tax liabilities.
I can see the attraction of buying a new truck, and the peace of mind re breakdowns is reassuring, but the payments must be matched with a continuity of work at good rates. If you can’t do that, then you need to spend less.
There is still so much nonsense on these threads about buying a secondhand truck. Lets get it right. If you are buying a second hand truck and it is being passed on to you because of some latent engine problem, then you are in the wrong place.
Never buy a truck that has been serviced privately by some man and a van, or even worse, by the owner. Buy a three year old truck from a dealer or reputable truck trader, which has been dealer maintained, and keep looking until you find a low mileage example, which will have a service history. A low mileage modern truck is totally reliable. Dealer will be able to supply all clutch measurements, oil pressure etc. Buy it, using the most tax efficient method you can, and then get a new maintenance contract with the dealer if you can afford it.
You must be aware the bank will only really lend to you what you are prepared to put up yourself, so factor that into your plans. The most realistic way to do it is prepare forecast accounts and approach a leasing co. Secure a lease purhase type deal from the likes of Lombard, and keep as much cash back as you can for cashflow purposes…and don’t work for Maritime! 
Ideals about helping new drivers get a start is very admirable, one OD here tried that and had his fingers badly burned as a result, i’d be careful indeed.
My only input on this is as a driver, i gained a O licence many years ago but never used it (personal circs, but overall i did ok without going OD so no regrets), is to be careful of what work the used lorry you might consider has been on before, 500k of running round with parcel weight on board on motorways is a hell of a lot different to a vehicle thats had 44 ton on its back run night and day on all sorts of terrain with every tom ■■■■ and batvol at the wheel.
Full R&M is great, but don’t get carried away with the idea it means no troubles, these new lorries arn’t proving durable if the work is hard (Scania probably the best bet but at what premium?), will the dealer definately have a suitable vehicle for you to use whilst yours is having its 3 time a year several days visit to fix the latest issue? with one lorry you haven’t got any clout at the dealership either, if your vehicles fill 1/3rd of their bays all week its a different kettle of fish.
As a driver i’ve found the old square Merc Axor especially with the 430 engine coupled to a manual box to be as good a work horse as you will find anywhere, very durable long term, and should be cheap to buy used because it lacks kudos, badge kudos doesn’t pay the bills.
Harry Monk:
If I did it again I would lease one with a full R&M deal. I rode my luck and got away with it but a run of mechanical bad luck can easily send an owner down the pan.
I’m with Harry 100% on this.
I’ve seen lots of lads who gave it a go, bought a reasonably fresh unit on finance, and not many of them made it to the end of their second year in business. This was not always because of poor rates or lack of work, but nearly always because of the run of mechanical bad luck that HM refers to, and the fact that they were unable to continue to fund the repairs because, having committed to buying the truck, their businesses were seriously undercapitalised.
Cash, lad , is King. If you’ve got some, hang on to as much as you can. This will allow you a lot more flexibility if you need to change the direction or type of work that you do. Although I’ve never had a truck on lease with R+M, it’s a pretty attractive prospect, as it takes away, (at a cost admittedly, but crucially a known cost) most if not all of the risk that you would be exposed to with an owned, used, vehicle. Also, as you will have a good idea of your costs from the very beginning you will quite quickly see whether or not your business is viable, and be able to make changes before things go too badly wrong.
As far as I can see, there is no need to be locked into a three year agreement, as several of the manufacturers are offering open ended deals on late used trucks at rates well under three hundred a week with maintenance, and only one months payment up front.
Way to go I think!!
Punchy Dan:
Ye but your forgetting most of the new start or wanabes haven’t got enough money to start with ,they can’t even afford stop for a ■■■■ ,that’s why they always commit to the pittance per mile job .
Saying it how it is as usual
I’ve just finished my business plan and cash flow for a loan approval…fingers crossed…
Janos:
Never buy a truck that has been serviced privately by some man and a van, or even worse, by the owner. Buy a three year old truck from a dealer or reputable truck trader, which has been dealer maintained, and keep looking until you find a low mileage example, which will have a service history. A low mileage modern truck is totally reliable. Dealer will be able to supply all clutch measurements, oil pressure etc. Buy it, using the most tax efficient method you can, and then get a new maintenance contract with the dealer if you can afford it.
I’ve done the R&M route and found at the end, if I kept the vehicle on, their maintenance was less than optimum. Our servicing schedule is better than a main dealers. We may not be man and van, but we are a ,small company.
I’d say do what makes you feel right. Personally I’d go with a good second hand, it was years before I bought anything new!
Good luck, whatever you decide.