Would compulsory national service across the board not be ‘fixing’ a problem for a minority by affecting the majority?
What about the 90% of kids who work hard at school, do their GCSEs, then either go on to college, university or learn a trade, and are generally productive? I, like many here have never been out of work for more than a day here or there since school. I went through the whole education system, started a company and somehow didnt do much mugging or stabbing when I was at yobbo age… I know most of my friends were also otherwise useful and trouble free youngsters.
I cant help but think we only see the ‘bad’ kids, as the ones doing the right thing go under the radar. I agree a lot of the little ■■■■■ out there need kicking into reality - but would doing it by CNS not hold back and hamper the hard working majority?
I spent 20 years in the Army, some of it in a training unit, where this topic came up regularly. I didn’t come across one person that thought it would be a good idea. Why do people think you can use the army to sort out societies problems? Nobody seems to suggest all these people should learn to drive trucks to give them a purpose in life, a bit of responsibility, a good job requiring a bit of discipline do you.
The young offenders have no deterrent these days, losing your Xbox for an hour is no real punishment is it? Make parents take responsibility for their offspring, not as some way of getting a flat with benefits. I recall in Germany if a kid gets into trouble the parents are brought up with them. Make prisons a place you don’t want to return to, not a place to get away from the other half, all mod cons in the cells. A society where prisoners are looked after better than pensioners that fought for freedom needs some serious work.
Don’t see how it could work in today’s society, with our human rights legislation. It must be a human right not to join the military against your wishes. And even if that isn’t the case, imagine the fun that could be had: “that nasty sergeant made me get up at six am when I wanted a lie in, that’s against my human rights that is!” or: “that 'orrible corporal made me climb that rope, and I fell off and bruised my arse, I want compensation for that!” It might have worked years ago, but things have changed a lot since then.
Bernard
My kids and I were raised in one of the toughest areas of Birmingham, then later on in Dublin. None of them turned out bad considering what was going on around them. If kids wanna be bad, they will be. Environment has nothing to do with it.
Hi All, Definetly a good idea to bring it back ,done my bit 1947 -1950 Army .trained driver /vehicle mech --sent to MALAYA for 2 years in the emergency period -went out a boy and came back a man. I didnt like it one bit -to me it was like a prison sentence and glad when it was over BUT it set me up for life and after that I was determined and had my own views on life . I went into Haulage as a driver (BRS) and learned my chosen trade , as for todays youngsters it would train them for some thing useful ,compulsary two years would be enough ,include all migrants under 30 (then see them in the queues at airports ). and bring down the dole figures – the only people i would feel sorry for would be the drill sergeants ------toshboy
Just a thought…who is going to pay for this. It can’t come out of the military budget, they have to pay for the white elephants ie Trident subs and 2 aircraft carriers that will never fire a shot in anger. Clothing,feeding, housing and training them will cost millions and millions. Also don’t forget in this non sexist world little girls would have to do it as well.
In the real world I would prefer the money to be used for something useful like the health service.
thehairyarsedtrucker:
Just a thought…who is going to pay for this. It can’t come out of the military budget, they have to pay for the white elephants ie Trident subs and 2 aircraft carriers that will never fire a shot in anger. Clothing,feeding, housing and training them will cost millions and millions. Also don’t forget in this non sexist world little girls would have to do it as well.
In the real world I would prefer the money to be used for something useful like the health service.
Have I missed something. We’re already paying to house feed and clothe half the ■■■■■■■ world.
If we conscripted all those on JSA we’d probably be better off as a country because housing would be cheaper as would feeding them and there would be none of this crush loan to pay for heroin nonsense
I think that service of some kind would be a good thing ,it does not have to be Military Service.National service still carries on in Spain and France.
NO to national service ,people join the forces for a career .So why should they have to look after society drop outs?? Maybe the parents should do a better job… I think the forces at the moment have enough to cope with…Also where does the money come from ■■?
alamcculloch:
I think that service of some kind would be a good thing ,it does not have to be Military Service.National service still carries on in Spain and France.
National service was abolished in 2001 in Spain and France.
I did 12 years in the British Army I agree wholeheartedly with slackbladder never met anyone who whilst I was in supported the idea of national service.
The forces have enough on their plate as it is with all what is put on them by politicians(non winnable wars,job cuts etc) without been made responsible for sorting those out that are branded societies problems.
The idea that national service will solve the problems in civi street are just a populist argument put forward by certain newspapers they fail to mention sadly that the end of military life will add to many problems for society when numerous veterans return to civilian life.
One in ten of the current prison population are ex forces,13% of ex forces personal have alcohol problems and 9000 are homeless registered homeless.
Slackbladder:
I spent 20 years in the Army, some of it in a training unit, where this topic came up regularly. I didn’t come across one person that thought it would be a good idea. Why do people think you can use the army to sort out societies problems? Nobody seems to suggest all these people should learn to drive trucks to give them a purpose in life, a bit of responsibility, a good job requiring a bit of discipline do you.
The young offenders have no deterrent these days, losing your Xbox for an hour is no real punishment is it? Make parents take responsibility for their offspring, not as some way of getting a flat with benefits. I recall in Germany if a kid gets into trouble the parents are brought up with them. Make prisons a place you don’t want to return to, not a place to get away from the other half, all mod cons in the cells. A society where prisoners are looked after better than pensioners that fought for freedom needs some serious work.
You sir, should be Prime Minister!
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve never been in any of the services, but why should those that are have to put up with (some) young scum bags on a daily basis?
A lot of youngsters are good kids - but a fair few are utter ■■■■■…and they should be dealt with in a much harsher way than currently is the case.
If only discipline was instilled in them, it would be a good thing…to help them find their path in life, and encourage and educate them towards that path would be the making of a lot of the ‘yoof’ of today
There are very few bad kids but there are an awful lot of bored and neglected ones - a little help and encouragement would reap endless benefits! Slovenly parents are the problem so the kids need taking away from them for a couple of years…National Service would be the way to do it…IMHO, for whats it worth
That’s the stereotypical view.However the real world can be very different.I went to a typical 1970’s secondary school where a large proportion of the turnout was expected to be forces fodder with a so called ‘discipline’ regime to match.In reality that regime was a case of the kids who had a reasonable amount of self discipline being subjected to a disciplinary regime along the lines of that expected on the average southern states US chain gang. While the really bad apples were left alone because the ‘teachers’ were scared of them.Probably with good reason as in the case of the headmaster ( rightly ) ending up with a jaw broken in numerous places having made the mistake of bullying the wrong pupil for once.Unfortunately it wasn’t me who hit the zb.I’ve also got no doubt that the army isn’t some magical paradise where it’s all good and no bad and in which bullying by those in command etc doesn’t sometimes get confused with so called ‘discipline’ just like my school days.While in general if someone hasn’t got self discipline to the point where army discipline is just pointless and needless then they aren’t going to be much good to the forces anyway.
As for me I wouldn’t expect anyone to do anything I wouldn’t want to do and joining up wouldn’t be one of those things which I’d choose so it would be wrong to expect anyone else to have to do it either.The only real justification for the modern day press gang in the form of conscription is,just as in the case of WW2,in times of national emergency in which case it’s a no choice matter not some bs discipline crusade.
As for WW1 that would have been another matter.In my view that was just a bs idea to get loads of working class conscripts wiped out for no good reason at all.No doubt many of their misguided parents saying it was a good thing to get some discipline instilled in them.Before that is they got the inevitable telegram as a result of the German machine guns or their own side for arguing with Haig and his orders.
if you wish to show your allegiance to HRH, knock yourself out.
Don’t force your uniform fetish on everyone else though.
Here here. Unless someone’s trying to invade our country, I’ve no wish to get shot or blown up thank you.
Ironically many of those getting shot or blown up in Afghanistan doing so on a similar type of bs government reasoning that sent British conscripts out to die in Belgium fighting our previously German allies because of an Austrian Royal being assassinated by a Serb revolutionary.In this case all the ‘invaders’ need to do is walk in at Dover where they’ll be welcomed with open arms by the UK immigration and border authorities.
Luckily this time we haven’t got conscription to add to the casualty lists.
I salute any one who wants to serve of there own free will but why should anyone be made to serve a country that has sold its own people down the river and expect them to fight people who the government treat better.
Im 34 and havent been out of work more than a few weeks since i left school. Im from a single parent family and grew up on a rough council estate. The army isnt the place to cure sociotys ills of a nayive scumbag underclass who thinks they are owed a living and uncontroled immigration and these people having no aligence to the good of this country and us having to adapt to them.
Of the people here who are pro natiinal service how many have been in the forces?
Not sure about this one. I did 13 years and you meet people form all walks of life. There were quite a few lads with not very happy upbringings, who I guess joined to escape their situations, and for the majority of them the Army helped them sort ther lives out.
I know most of my friends were also otherwise useful and trouble free youngsters.
While the really bad apples were left alone because the ‘teachers’ were scared of them.Probably with good reason as in the case of the headmaster ( rightly 
) ending up with a jaw broken in numerous places having made the mistake of bullying the wrong pupil for once.Unfortunately it wasn’t me who hit the zb.I’ve also got no doubt that the army isn’t some magical paradise where it’s all good and no bad and in which bullying by those in command etc doesn’t sometimes get confused with so called ‘discipline’ just like my school days.While in general if someone hasn’t got self discipline to the point where army discipline is just pointless and needless then they aren’t going to be much good to the forces anyway.
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