Doing a 2 day double manned 7.5t multi drop shift. If we started at 7:30 tomorrow after a regular daily rest, am I right that we can do 21 hours before we have our next rest which must be a minimum of 9 hours. As long as we don’t go over the 10 hour daily driving limit each? Or would the 21 hours be breaking working time directive rules? Had a little look the working time regulations and it looks like drivers are exempt from certain parts of it. What is the maximum daily working limit under the working time directive?
as far as i know there is no daily working limit, so long as your compliant with the tacho rules on double manning. if there was a limit under working time rules then all double manning would banned and its not, even though you are in the truck for that amount of time you are not working all of that anyway 
newey91:
Doing a 2 day double manned 7.5t multi drop shift. If we started at 7:30 tomorrow after a regular daily rest, am I right that we can do 21 hours before we have our next rest which must be a minimum of 9 hours. As long as we don’t go over the 10 hour daily driving limit each? Or would the 21 hours be breaking working time directive rules? Had a little look the working time regulations and it looks like drivers are exempt from certain parts of it. What is the maximum daily working limit under the working time directive?
As a second man you are not working for 21 hours, when you are not driving you are in the passenger seat “resting” on break or POA. It is one of the reasons that VOSA allow the first 45 minutes to count as a break although the tachograph can only record work or availability whilst been multi manned. Think of your working day as 21 hours divided by two or possibly three.
For the purposes of this regulation, “adequate rest” means that a worker has regular rest periods, the duration of which are expressed in units of time and which are sufficiently long and continuous to ensure that, as a result of fatigue or other irregular working patterns, he does not cause injury to himself, to fellow workers or to others and that he does not damage his health, either in the short term or in the longer term.”.
Working between 6 and 9 hours per day requires breaks
totalling 30 minutes. If more that 9 hours is worked then
breaks must total 45 minutes. Breaks must be of at least
15 minutes duration. Break requirements under the
Regulations, are in addition to those under the EU drivers’
hours rules. But where mainly driving work is undertaken it
is possible that working time breaks may be satisfied by
breaks from driving taken under the EU drivers’ hours
rules. The EU drivers’ hours rules break requirements take
precedence when driving.
If the intention is to get the max driving time out of a multi manning 21 hour shift which complies with ALL the regulations for that SHIFT (other weekly rules etc would also need to be obeyed) then perhaps this could be one way …
15 mins vehicle check for both D1 & D2
D1 - 2.5 hour drive
D2 - 2.5 hour drive
D1 - 2.5 hour drive
D2 - 2.5 hour drive
30 mins cafe stop
D1 - 2.5 hour drive
D2 - 2.5 hour drive
D1 - 2.5 hour drive
D2 - 2.5 hour drive
15 mins end of duty stuff
Every time the passenger seat is used for 2.5 hours then the first 45 mins will be deemed as break for the tacho/RTD and the rest POA even though the lot will be recorded as POA - at least thats how VOSA do it in the UK - how other EU states do it I have no idea
newey91:
Doing a 2 day double manned 7.5t multi drop shift. If we started at 7:30 tomorrow after a regular daily rest, am I right that we can do 21 hours before we have our next rest which must be a minimum of 9 hours. As long as we don’t go over the 10 hour daily driving limit each? Or would the 21 hours be breaking working time directive rules? Had a little look the working time regulations and it looks like drivers are exempt from certain parts of it. What is the maximum daily working limit under the working time directive?
You’re correct in everything you’ve posted.
For the working time regulations there’s no maximum working day as such, but on a multi-manning trip you are of course limited to the requirement to have a 9 hour daily rest period completed within 30 hours from start of shift, which gives you the 21 hour spread-over from start to end of the shift you mentioned.
Rog - I am sure when i did my international they said you could pick up the 2nd driver en route, within the first hour, but you both had to finish at the same time… just wondering if this would affect the schedule you did ?
and what would the 2nd driver do about the vehicle check then ? - would he be done if he was not there for the daily walk round check, or would he have to do a daily check when he was picked up?
Jenson Button:
Rog - I am sure when i did my international they said you could pick up the 2nd driver en route, within the first hour, but you both had to finish at the same time… just wondering if this would affect the schedule you did ?and what would the 2nd driver do about the vehicle check then ? - would he be done if he was not there for the daily walk round check, or would he have to do a daily check when he was picked up?
Yes, D2 in my senario could join D1 within the first hour
The vehicle checks for the truck have been done by D1 so what would be the point of D2 doing them all again unless D2 did not trust D1 !!
There is no room for a cafe stop if you are working for me. I am not paying you to skive
Rog… if you were not in for the daily check… and then get stopped could a stroppy enforcement officer do you? i.e. if a light had gone when you were driving? or would you just hope for common sence ?
Jenson Button:
Rog… if you were not in for the daily check… and then get stopped could a stroppy enforcement officer do you? i.e. if a light had gone when you were driving? or would you just hope for common sence ?
That could happen during your last 2.5 hour drive.
They don’t call it a daily vehicle check for nothing
Wheel Nut:
There is no room for a cafe stop if you are working for me. I am not paying you to skive
Not even for 
Far as I know you cannot take any part of your daily rest in a moving vehicle and as you have to have 11 hours off or a reduced to 9 the maximum duty period is 15 hours for both of you.As far as I can work out the only gain you make by double manning is 2 hours driving time per day.
Soon as you both put your cards in you are on duty not just the driver.No way are you allowed a 21 hour stint.Dont matter about vehicle checks or all that bollox you cannot be on duty more than 15 hours or your going to jail if they catch you.
Bking:
Far as I know you cannot take any part of your daily rest in a moving vehicle and as you have to have 11 hours off or a reduced to 9 the maximum duty period is 15 hours for both of you.As far as I can work out the only gain you make by double manning is 2 hours driving time per day.Soon as you both put your cards in you are on duty not just the driver.No way are you allowed a 21 hour stint.
There’s a concession for the daily rest period when multi-manning, you should have completed a rest period of at-least 9 consecutive hours within 30 hours from the start of the shift.
tachograph:
Bking:
Far as I know you cannot take any part of your daily rest in a moving vehicle and as you have to have 11 hours off or a reduced to 9 the maximum duty period is 15 hours for both of you.As far as I can work out the only gain you make by double manning is 2 hours driving time per day.Soon as you both put your cards in you are on duty not just the driver.No way are you allowed a 21 hour stint.
There’s a concession for the daily rest period when multi-manning, you should have completed a rest period of at-least 9 consecutive hours within 30 hours from the start of the shift.
So driver 2 according to you can do a 21 hour duty period?How the hell would that come up on the graph.That means both drivers are doing 6 hours each over statute duty period.
Would like to see this "concession "in writing.Driver 1 is still on duty in a moving vehicle therfore how the hell is he “off duty”?That means driver 2 is fiddling 6 at the start of duty and driver 1 fiddling 6 hours at the end.VOSA would love you.
newey91:
Doing a 2 day double manned 7.5t multi drop shift. If we started at 7:30 tomorrow after a regular daily rest, am I right that we can do 21 hours before we have our next rest which must be a minimum of 9 hours. As long as we don’t go over the 10 hour daily driving limit each? Or would the 21 hours be breaking working time directive rules? Had a little look the working time regulations and it looks like drivers are exempt from certain parts of it. What is the maximum daily working limit under the working time directive?
30 hours is correct! 21 hours duty, 9 hours off! 
HTH 
Bking:
So driver 2 according to you can do a 21 hour duty period?How the hell would that come up on the graph.That means both drivers are doing 6 hours each over statute duty period.Would like to see this "concession "in writing.Driver 1 is still on duty in a moving vehicle therfore how the hell is he “off duty”?That means driver 2 is fiddling 6 at the start of duty and driver 1 fiddling 6 hours at the end.VOSA would love you.
Here you go 
businesslink.gov.uk/Transpor … 1111_3.pdf - check out page 21 for multi manning
eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 013:EN:PDF article 4(o) and article 8 (5)
Too many Mary Ellens on here! HTH!
ROG:
Bking:
So driver 2 according to you can do a 21 hour duty period?How the hell would that come up on the graph.That means both drivers are doing 6 hours each over statute duty period.Would like to see this "concession "in writing.Driver 1 is still on duty in a moving vehicle therfore how the hell is he “off duty”?That means driver 2 is fiddling 6 at the start of duty and driver 1 fiddling 6 hours at the end.VOSA would love you.
Here you go
businesslink.gov.uk/Transpor … 1111_3.pdf - check out page 21 for multi manning
eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 013:EN:PDF article 4(o) and article 8 (5)
Maybe should have had you in court a few months ago when my mate got fined 1700 quid for having a duty period of 18 hours when double manning.Im sure they would have seen the reasoning behind your argument.As the man said in court"15 hours is max duty time no more and no less"
Bking:
ROG:
Bking:
So driver 2 according to you can do a 21 hour duty period?How the hell would that come up on the graph.That means both drivers are doing 6 hours each over statute duty period.Would like to see this "concession "in writing.Driver 1 is still on duty in a moving vehicle therfore how the hell is he “off duty”?That means driver 2 is fiddling 6 at the start of duty and driver 1 fiddling 6 hours at the end.VOSA would love you.
Here you go
businesslink.gov.uk/Transpor … 1111_3.pdf - check out page 21 for multi manning
eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 013:EN:PDF article 4(o) and article 8 (5)
Maybe should have had you in court a few months ago when my mate got fined 1700 quid for having a duty period of 18 hours when double manning.Im sure they would have seen the reasoning behind your argument.As the man said in court"15 hours is max duty time no more and no less"
The regulations speak for themselves, if your mate was multi-manning to the definition in article 5 of (EC) 561/2006 the court was wrong.
Article 4
(o) ‘multi-manning’ means the situation where, during each
period of driving between any two consecutive daily rest
periods, or between a daily rest period and a weekly rest
period, there are at least two drivers in the vehicle to do
the driving. For the first hour of multi-manning the
presence of another driver or drivers is optional but for
the remainder of the period it is compulsory;
Article 8
A driver shall take daily and weekly rest periods.
Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the
previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall
have taken a new daily rest period.
If the portion of the daily rest period which falls within that
24 hour period is at least nine hours but less than 11 hours,
then the daily rest period in question shall be regarded as a
reduced daily rest period.A daily rest period may be extended to make a regular
weekly rest period or a reduced weekly rest period.A driver may have at most three reduced daily rest
periods between any two weekly rest periods.By way of derogation from paragraph 2, within 30 hours
of the end of a daily or weekly rest period, a driver engaged in
multi-manning must have taken a new daily rest period of at
least nine hours.
Bking:
Maybe should have had you in court a few months ago when my mate got fined 1700 quid for having a duty period of 18 hours when double manning.Im sure they would have seen the reasoning behind your argument.As the man said in court"15 hours is max duty time no more and no less"
My guess would be that either at the start or finish of that ‘multi manning period’ one of the drivers messed it up
Did both drivers finish at exactly the same time?
Did the drivers start within 1 hour of each other?
Did they stay together all the time? (apart from the first hour exemption)