Reef:
If I was a copper whether I had a gun or not I certainly wouldn’t be standing directly in front of a Class 2 hurtling towards me, this isn’t the movies!
My best guess going by the bullet strikes are that the police were stood off to the side and firing across to the driver as the image shows.
They were probably firing MP5’s which use 9mm rounds, no point firing 50 cal rounds at it when they are going to go clean through the vehicle the public and the houses beyond is there?
I also read that the truck had stopped being unable to get past an obstacle and at that point a member of the public jumped up and tried to pull the driver out, then the driver produced a handgun and started shooting at the police, they then shot back and dropped him.
The idea of ‘high alert’ not meaning well armed force available because of the fear of collateral damage from stray bullets in the case of these nutters out to commit mass murder with anything from a truck driving into crowds or machine guns or grenades,really needs a re think.IE risk of collateral damage from the odd stray bullet v risk of mass casualties through not taking out a nutter soon enough and effectively enough.On that note I think the public have the right to expect a high alert environment to mean the law being armed with something more effective than an MP5 etc etc.
The-Snowman:
Im not even going to bother to repeat all the other examples of excuses terrorists give. You’ll keep on making excuses for it. Much like the foreign workers thread, its pointless trying to point stuff out to you. You see what you want to see and ignore the rest. Im not going round in circles trying to make you see the flaws in your logic
I wish you could point out the flaws in my logic at all, because you haven’t attempted it. All you’ve posted is some cod history and cod cultural analysis, and think we should swallow this unexamined.
Dolph:
Islam was never religion of peace, someone have to be blind and deaf to believe in.
In which case you’d obviously be expected to follow Le Pen’s and Trump’s line on Europe’s future based on the security of the nation state and national borders.Rather than Merkel’s and Juncker’s Eurasian Federation.
Dolph:
Islam was never religion of peace, someone have to be blind and deaf to believe in.
And Christianity is? Love they neighbour, unless he does not confirm with the Lords narrow field of love. Then smythe him…
Sound familiar?
It doesn’t sound familiar mainly because it’s thousands of years old. Tell me when were you last smythed in England as a result of not liking the Church of England or disagreeing with Christianity? Try that in Saudi and see what happens. Top tip, don’t bother wearing a hat the day you do.
Dolph:
Islam was never religion of peace, someone have to be blind and deaf to believe in.
In which case you’d obviously be expected to follow Le Pen’s and Trump’s line on Europe’s future based on the security of the nation state and national borders.Rather than Merkel’s and Juncker’s Eurasian Federation.
No I’ll follow someone like Victor Orban for leader of EU. European Federation with strong leader protecting and upholding the values of the union citizens.
I dont like Trump, rich old white guy who thinks is above all, arrogant and cynical.
Dolph:
Islam was never religion of peace, someone have to be blind and deaf to believe in.
And Christianity is? Love they neighbour, unless he does not confirm with the Lords narrow field of love. Then smythe him…
Sound familiar?
It doesn’t sound familiar mainly because it’s thousands of years old. Tell me when were you last smythed in England as a result of not liking the Church of England or disagreeing with Christianity? Try that in Saudi and see what happens. Top tip, don’t bother wearing a hat the day you do.
Which raises that question what is it that makes these appeasers so keen on bringing this alien culture into Europe.
We do know there is a link between Socialism and arming that culture to the teeth to take out Israel as part of at least one anti Jewish anti western agenda in 1967 and 1973.
Freight Dog:
Was any western military action responsible for the still on going practice of stoning women?
Yes!
The reason being that internal extremists on the margins of these societies have been helped into power. It’s akin to the National Front in our society being given a war chest and containers full of guns and vehicles, plus military training and advice from the CIA!
Are we responsible for the practice of a woman who reports a ■■■■ only to be executed for extra marital affairs? Are our military actions complicit with a society who’s “police” barred the escape of a group of teenage girls from a burning building causing their burning to death all because their modesty wasn’t sufficiently covered enough to be allowed onto the street?
Can you answer this without dragging up European historical cases from years ago that we as a society have used to educate ourselves and strive to move away from?
Notwithstanding what I’ve said above about the promotion of extremists, you’re right, we’re dealing with societies that are somewhat more primitive than our own.
But it’s not an answer to say to women threatened with stoning, that we’ll raze your house to the ground instead, with you and your family in it!
Whatever the solution to the internal policies of primitive societies that we’d like to see change, it is not military action that kills many of them.
In fact, if we really must intervene (and typically we do not), the best proven solution, the lesser of all the evils, is to install or support a strong local leader who heads a Western-looking regime - Gaddafi, Saddam, Assad, etc. - and to put pressure on those regimes to take the form we wish them to take (but never so much pressure as to destroy them, there must be realism about what can be achieved).
Evil8Beezle:
I agree with you Rjan, we should step out of it and let them get back to different factions killing each other, just like the Shia & Sunni’s.
That way when all the innocents caught up in that are suffering and dying, we at least can have a clear conscience and no blood on our hands!
Indeed! If we’re trying to avoid harming innocents, then why are we getting blood on our hands harming innocents?
If we were obviously stabilising the regime or saving vastly more lives than we cost, we might have some supporters out there, but we’re not. Our military has cost more lives in the Middle East overall than Saddam ever did.
The Western intervention is said to have cost a quarter of a million lives in Iraq, half of them civilians! It’s commensurate with the number of lives Saddam himself cost during his entire 25 year reign! And the difference is, after 25 years he had a functioning society, unlike what we have now. And that’s just Iraq.
We can’t expect to save lives in the world and prevent wars, by costing lives and waging wars. If we can make decisive interventions which make the world better, then I’d support them - it is said Tony Blair is still popular in Sierra Leone. But we can’t reconstruct whole societies by dropping bombs, and we cannot get involved in saving lives if the price is the cost of a similar number of lives and ruination of the society in which those saved lives must then live.
Dolph:
Islam was never religion of peace, someone have to be blind and deaf to believe in.
And Christianity is? Love they neighbour, unless he does not confirm with the Lords narrow field of love. Then smythe him…
Sound familiar?
It doesn’t sound familiar mainly because it’s thousands of years old. Tell me when were you last smythed in England as a result of not liking the Church of England or disagreeing with Christianity? Try that in Saudi and see what happens. Top tip, don’t bother wearing a hat the day you do.
I’ll bite… religion is my pet subject. Paganism is much, much older than Christianity. And whilst pagans may have sacrificed the odd person, they never went round telling other people that their pagan deities where wrong, and convert to ours or we will kill you. Modern religion is about control. Control the ‘believer’ (who is always promised a carrot of ethernal life) and you can use him at will for your motives. The Christian church is rich beyond believe, because not giving money to your church is bad. Hell awaits…
Dolph:
Islam was never religion of peace, someone have to be blind and deaf to believe in.
And Christianity is? Love they neighbour, unless he does not confirm with the Lords narrow field of love. Then smythe him…
Sound familiar?
It doesn’t sound familiar mainly because it’s thousands of years old. Tell me when were you last smythed in England as a result of not liking the Church of England or disagreeing with Christianity? Try that in Saudi and see what happens. Top tip, don’t bother wearing a hat the day you do.
Which raises that question what is it that makes these appeasers so keen on bringing this alien culture into Europe.
We do know there is a link between Socialism and arming that culture to the teeth to take out Israel as part of at least one anti Jewish anti western agenda in 1967 and 1973.
Israel appears to be the only country they leave alone. I wonder why that is?
Dolph:
Islam was never religion of peace, someone have to be blind and deaf to believe in.
And Christianity is? Love they neighbour, unless he does not confirm with the Lords narrow field of love. Then smythe him…
Sound familiar?
It doesn’t sound familiar mainly because it’s thousands of years old. Tell me when were you last smythed in England as a result of not liking the Church of England or disagreeing with Christianity? Try that in Saudi and see what happens. Top tip, don’t bother wearing a hat the day you do.
Which raises that question what is it that makes these appeasers so keen on bringing this alien culture into Europe.
We do know there is a link between Socialism and arming that culture to the teeth to take out Israel as part of at least one anti Jewish anti western agenda in 1967 and 1973.
Seeing as I had a drink tonight, I’ll just say it as it is.
Carryfast is a agitator. He looks to cause trouble. His aim is to create trouble. He is also a ■■■■■
Turkey military coup: Erdoğan says ‘we will overcome this’
• Martial law imposed and curfew declared across country
• Armed forces: action taken to ‘reinstate constitutional order, human rights and freedoms’
Dolph:
Islam was never religion of peace, someone have to be blind and deaf to believe in.
In which case you’d obviously be expected to follow Le Pen’s and Trump’s line on Europe’s future based on the security of the nation state and national borders.Rather than Merkel’s and Juncker’s Eurasian Federation.
No I’ll follow someone like Victor Orban for leader of EU. European Federation with strong leader protecting and upholding the values of the union citizens.
I dont like Trump, rich old white guy who thinks is above all, arrogant and cynical.
To be fair he’s closer to a Nationalist than a Federalist and therefore probably has more in common with Le Pen than Merkel or Hollande.I’d go along with that bearing in mind he’s already got history of preferring democracy over socialism so shouldn’t be expected to have any problem with a Confederal Europe as opposed to Federal.
Dolph:
Islam was never religion of peace, someone have to be blind and deaf to believe in.
And Christianity is? Love they neighbour, unless he does not confirm with the Lords narrow field of love. Then smythe him…
Sound familiar?
It doesn’t sound familiar mainly because it’s thousands of years old. Tell me when were you last smythed in England as a result of not liking the Church of England or disagreeing with Christianity? Try that in Saudi and see what happens. Top tip, don’t bother wearing a hat the day you do.
I’ll bite… religion is my pet subject. Paganism is much, much older than Christianity. And whilst pagans may have sacrificed the odd person, they never went round telling other people that their pagan deities where wrong, and convert to ours or we will kill you. Modern religion is about control. Control the ‘believer’ (who is always promised a carrot of ethernal life) and you can use him at will for your motives. The Christian church is rich beyond believe, because not giving money to your church is bad. Hell awaits…
I didn’t ask you to bite, I just asked you when were you smythed? Thats what you were asserting. We’re talking present day stuff here, not history. Never mind wealth, the banks are wealthy too, people are wealthy. But let’s stick to the point, when were you beaten or attacked in the UK as a result of a Christian church? Or as you assert, when were you or anyone you know smythed?
