M40 Pile Up [MERGED]

war1974:
no wonder the public think driver are stupid! so you sit at 40mph as feel that is safe for the conditions but then when some knob comes by at 56 decide the safest action is to follow him at 100 yards?

He was way in front of me. Probably more than 100 yards but it’s difficult to judge distances without a yardstick. And I could still see his fog light clearly. Had anything happened ahead I’d have had ample time to stop.

Plus, by following the fog light I knew the road ahead was clear. The road was more or less empty and driving on my own I didn’t have a clue what was ahead of me.

in an artic if he ploughed into something you aint stopping which is possibly what causes so many accidents.

I hate this I attitude of I have led high bright lights so will driver at stupid speeds, sorry terry but I was always taught on the old attitude of I would rather be 10 mins late in this life rather than 15 mins early in the next.

I disagree. Given the reduced visibility, had an artic been lying on its side across all 3 lanes with no lights on, even at 40mph I’d have struggled to stop. If you go any slower you then become a problem to the people behind doing silly speeds. I’d have been more than happy for everyone to just sit at 30mph, I wasn’t in any hurry. This is the problem with fog, too many people with different ideas on what to do.

I just sat well back from the vehicle in front and let him take all the risks. Even If he’d come to an instant stop by hitting the back of some multiple pile up I’d got plenty stopping distance to slow down.

I would expect that 39 out of the 40 vehicles involved in the accident thought the same terry.

will agree to disagree I guess.

Depends how close those 39 vehicles were travelling doesn’t it. You know what folk are like when it comes to tail gating, whatever the conditions.

true terry very true.

just a shame people seem not to learn whether its a lack of impact given the tablet/instant news age we live in or the fact we are exposed far too often to horrific scenes where by thing like this do not affect how people drive.

Terry T:
Depends how close those 39 vehicles were travelling doesn’t it. You know what folk are like when it comes to tail gating, whatever the conditions.

Every morning in normal “rush hour” traffic - everyone tends to bunch up a lot closer than at other times.

There’s been this big assumption here that 06:45 on a saturday morning saw it “quiet”.
It wasn’t. It was like 06:45 any other day during the week… Peak period traffic conditions, which put everyone into “bunch-up mode” as per usual.
No time to react then when anyone in the traffic stream has to then jam on the anchors for something like a “jackknifed artic” appearing out of the gloom in front of them. :frowning:

Winseer:
It wasn’t. It was like 06:45 any other day during the week…

Except the M40 accident was at 07:45. But probably busier than it would have been an hour earlier.

The M1 accident was 06:45, and I know for a fact the road was nowhere near as busy on Saturday morning than it normally is on a weekday at that time.

Do you accept it was busier at either place at either incident time than normal for saturday morning traffic?

If we give monday-friday morning rush-hour traffic a “busy” factor of 92-99% for example, I suggest that the normal saturday range might be 74-94% - which at the top end of that range makes it busier than one of the quieter mid-week rush hour periods… Perception. THEN because it’s busy like a mid-week morning - people bunch up, not leaving enough gap between themselves and the vehicles in front, because any attempt to slow down in rush-hour traffic results in being over and undertaken with the proverbial maxwell house wave… Add that to the FOG - and a disaster can then unfold.

Winseer:
Do you accept it was busier at either place at either incident time than normal for saturday morning traffic?

I have no idea about the M40 incident but the M1 wasn’t busier than a normal at 06:45 Saturday morning, I’ve seen it busier at that time on a Saturday.

From what I understand, weight limits are void on a signed diversion route, M1 J9 Southbound is one. But some diversion routes are not suitable for all HGV’s, A1(M) J10 Southbound, takes you into Baldock and I don’t think double deck trailers can use it.

I also believe the hard shoulder was not open at the time of the crash saturday morning.

Driving along the hard shoulder when open, or in All Lane Running sections, is no different to driving down any A road dual c/way. If driving correctly, you should be able to stop in time before hitting an obstruction.
NO road is dangerous. It’s the drivers using them that are the danger.

Terry T:

war1974:
no wonder the public think driver are stupid! so you sit at 40mph as feel that is safe for the conditions but then when some knob comes by at 56 decide the safest action is to follow him at 100 yards?

He was way in front of me. Probably more than 100 yards but it’s difficult to judge distances without a yardstick. And I could still see his fog light clearly. Had anything happened ahead I’d have had ample time to stop.

Plus, by following the fog light I knew the road ahead was clear. The road was more or less empty and driving on my own I didn’t have a clue what was ahead of me.

war1974:
in an artic if he ploughed into something you aint stopping which is possibly what causes so many accidents.

I hate this I attitude of I have led high bright lights so will driver at stupid speeds, sorry terry but I was always taught on the old attitude of I would rather be 10 mins late in this life rather than 15 mins early in the next.

Terry T:
I disagree. Given the reduced visibility, had an artic been lying on its side across all 3 lanes with no lights on, even at 40mph I’d have struggled to stop. If you go any slower you then become a problem to the people behind doing silly speeds. I’d have been more than happy for everyone to just sit at 30mph, I wasn’t in any hurry. This is the problem with fog, too many people with different ideas on what to do.

I just sat well back from the vehicle in front and let him take all the risks. Even If he’d come to an instant stop by hitting the back of some multiple pile up I’d got plenty stopping distance to slow down.

Terry, don’t matter which way you try to excuse it, you should have stayed with your original plan, 40mph or so. Drive your road, not follow someone else into chaos :unamused:

He was taking all the risks, but the moment you chose to tail him at whatever distance, you then joined whole heartedly into the risk taking behaviour.
At 40 mph you’d increase your chances off stopping in a safe distance vastly over doing 56mph, for a kick off you’d travel less distance in the time(split seconds) you’d thought about what was happening in front off you, so your braking/evasive actions would start further away from the obstruction. The braking effort needed to lose 40mph must be less than that required to lose 56mph which can only mean you’d come to halt sooner :wink:

If the other truck had come to an instant halt in a pile up, the driver may well not have used his brakes, which would mean you’d travel nearer to the incident before you started to react, I base this on the fact that you were using his fog lights as your marker. If as you say you’d have had plenty off time to react to such an incident, then maybe it was only a light mist, and not really foggy at all :wink:

Commendable as it is too worry about what the idiot fraternity are doing behind you, to be honest I’d worry more whats ahead and let them do as they will. If some truck or other motor ploughs into you from behind, because your doing a suitable speed for the conditions, then who’s going to be in the ■■■■ or dead, not you. You may well come out with cuts an bruises, but your chances off survival are almost 100%, if you plough into the back off another wagon, or a family car or bus, then someones probably going to die, you in the first scenario others with the other 2 :open_mouth: .

Do yourself a favour go with your gut :wink:

extrucker:
From what I understand, weight limits are void on a signed diversion route, M1 J9 Southbound is one. But some diversion routes are not suitable for all HGV’s, A1(M) J10 Southbound, takes you into Baldock and I don’t think double deck trailers can use it.

I also believe the hard shoulder was not open at the time of the crash saturday morning.

Driving along the hard shoulder when open, or in All Lane Running sections, is no different to driving down any A road dual c/way. If driving correctly, you should be able to stop in time before hitting an obstruction.
NO road is dangerous. It’s the drivers using them that are the danger.

What has this to do with the M40 pile up that this thread is about?

extrucker:
From what I understand, weight limits are void on a signed diversion route, M1 J9 Southbound is one. But some diversion routes are not suitable for all HGV’s, A1(M) J10 Southbound, takes you into Baldock and I don’t think double deck trailers can use it.

.

Unless the passengers on the top deck Duck :laughing:

■■■■ didn’t see it said trailers :unamused:

eddie snax:
At 40 mph you’d increase your chances off stopping in a safe distance vastly over doing 56mph

Sure. But this fog was quite bad. Not a mist as you have suggested. I don’t know what the visibility was exactly as it was dark and foggy and I didn’t have a tape measure but by following the fog light ahead (fog lights are designed to be seen in fog) I was able to see something much further away than what I could see without a light. Had that light disappeared or started to get closer to me rapidly I could’ve done something about it with far more time to react and slow down than if an unlit multiple pileup appeared in front of me. Despite travelling faster.

I could’ve slowed down to a point where no matter what appeared ahead I could’ve stopped but given the speeds that other vehicles were passing me (a few lorries doing the limit and many cars/vans doing considerably more than that) I then become prey to a rear end shunt. Might not hurt when you got a loaded trailer on but I was running solo. Some truck drivers have problems not hitting slower vehicles in broad day light never mind the dark and fog.

Driver-Once-More:

extrucker:
From what I understand, weight limits are void on a signed diversion route, M1 J9 Southbound is one. But some diversion routes are not suitable for all HGV’s, A1(M) J10 Southbound, takes you into Baldock and I don’t think double deck trailers can use it.

I also believe the hard shoulder was not open at the time of the crash saturday morning.

Driving along the hard shoulder when open, or in All Lane Running sections, is no different to driving down any A road dual c/way. If driving correctly, you should be able to stop in time before hitting an obstruction.
NO road is dangerous. It’s the drivers using them that are the danger.

What has this to do with the M40 pile up that this thread is about?

The question was raised on page one of the thread about diversions put in by the HA and weight restrictions.

The M1 incident was also introduced into the thread on page 1

Smart motorways and the use of the hard shoulder has been discussed on this thread.

Looks like it’s bang on topic on all points, even more so given the occupation of the poster.

Coffeeholic:

Driver-Once-More:

extrucker:
From what I understand, weight limits are void on a signed diversion route, M1 J9 Southbound is one. But some diversion routes are not suitable for all HGV’s, A1(M) J10 Southbound, takes you into Baldock and I don’t think double deck trailers can use it.

I also believe the hard shoulder was not open at the time of the crash saturday morning.

Driving along the hard shoulder when open, or in All Lane Running sections, is no different to driving down any A road dual c/way. If driving correctly, you should be able to stop in time before hitting an obstruction.
NO road is dangerous. It’s the drivers using them that are the danger.

What has this to do with the M40 pile up that this thread is about?

The question was raised on page one of the thread about diversions put in by the HA and weight restrictions.

The M1 incident was also introduced into the thread on page 1

Smart motorways and the use of the hard shoulder has been discussed on this thread.

Looks like it’s bang on topic on all points, even more so given the occupation of the poster.

Thank you Coffeeholic

Terry T:

eddie snax:
At 40 mph you’d increase your chances off stopping in a safe distance vastly over doing 56mph

Sure. But this fog was quite bad. Not a mist as you have suggested. I don’t know what the visibility was exactly as it was dark and foggy and I didn’t have a tape measure but by following the fog light ahead (fog lights are designed to be seen in fog) I was able to see something much further away than what I could see without a light. Had that light disappeared or started to get closer to me rapidly I could’ve done something about it with far more time to react and slow down than if an unlit multiple pileup appeared in front of me. Despite travelling faster.

I could’ve slowed down to a point where no matter what appeared ahead I could’ve stopped but given the speeds that other vehicles were passing me (a few lorries doing the limit and many cars/vans doing considerably more than that) I then become prey to a rear end shunt. Might not hurt when you got a loaded trailer on but I was running solo. Some truck drivers have problems not hitting slower vehicles in broad day light never mind the dark and fog.

Though it is true that some blokes cant see in broad daylight, I still think you should have stuck to your original gut feeling, and that was 40mph. Though it is true that fog lights are to be seen in the fog, if you follow for any distance you run the risk of getting mesmerised by them, and it was giving you a false sense off security. But I wasn’t there and you were, you sound as if you are switched on, at least by your original actions off doing a reasonable speed for the conditions(40mph), so I can only assume that your subsequent decision was right for the conditions, though I have my doubts :wink:

eddie snax:
so I can only assume that your subsequent decision was right for the conditions, though I have my doubts :wink:

Me too !! The old chestnut of keeping going so you don’t get rear ended is right up there with …“i deemed it dangerous”," for reason of safety…" and…“in order to avoid” etc… oh, Children as well… :smiley:

Mike-C:
Children as well… :smiley:

After 9pm, post watershed. All children tucked up safely in bed :stuck_out_tongue: