Armstrong:
0
Regarding your comment on the 13 speed fuller, you don’t use the clutch when using the overdrive, only when changing full gears.
Cheers
[/quote]
But you did with the earlier ones in the '70s. There’s been much discussion about it on this thread. Robert
robert1952:
Armstrong:
0Regarding your comment on the 13 speed fuller, you don’t use the clutch when using the overdrive, only when changing full gears.
Cheers
But you did with the earlier ones in the '70s. There’s been much discussion about it on this thread. Robert
[/quote]
That seems to fit in with how I was told to use the 13 speed at least up to 1980.After that I only used it on the MAN installation on a hired in wagon.Which might have been a case of me not knowing that fuller development seems to have actually moved on while I’d only been driving trucks on which it wasn’t specced. 
Which in the case of British operators was more commonly in favour of the 9 speed where the fuller was specced.Probably in typical Brit fashion on the basis of saving a penny in the form of purchase price to spend a pound in the form of fuel consumption caused by using the wider ratio box with fewer ratios and on that issue I’d agree with tiptop.Ironically in that regard there were examples of the Foden box with more ratios being changed for the 9 speed fuller.The DOT gritter fleet being one. 
As for the 13 speed without the clutchless splitter operation that was the main comparison which made the ZF 12 speed constant mesh,as fitted as an option in the 2800,so good by comparison in that it only needed 6 gearshifts to go through the box being that it was just a splitter type not a range change and splitter like the fuller.While at that time the fuller had no advantage in it’s splitter operation assuming that clutchless operation was important to anyone anyway.Which just left the shift quality superiority of the fuller.
The last 13-speed 'boxes I used were in mid-80s MAN 16.281s and just like Carryfast in the above post, I drove them as if they required the clutch to activate the splitter mechanism because all the 13-speeders from the '70s that I had driven before that had to be driven thus. So, like Carryfast, I probably drove the evolved 13-speeder without even realising it. Robert 
I had a Transcon with a 350 ■■■■■■■ uprated to 375 and a 13 speed Fuller that was clocked at 96mph tractor only but it was about the only crash box that I drove that I ever really liked as once rolling would slip through the gears without the need to use the clutch every time, always prefered synchro boxes until auto boxes came along which after years of using a clutch I find much more preferable. Went back to a crash box for a while in Peterbilts and Freightliners when first driving trucks in the States and hated them mainly due to the fact that most of them required the use of a very heavy clutch. Loved it when the company decided to go over to big Volvos with full auto boxes (Warrantied for 750,000 miles) and even the diehard conventional style american truck drivers in the firm have been won over although they do have one Volvo with the Fuller for comparison. Plus the Volvos are returning 2 mpg more than the Ps and Fs.
chazzer:
I had a Transcon with a 350 ■■■■■■■ uprated to 375 and a 13 speed Fuller that was clocked at 96mph tractor only but it was about the only crash box that I drove that I ever really liked as once rolling would slip through the gears without the need to use the clutch every time, always prefered synchro boxes until auto boxes came along which after years of using a clutch I find much more preferable. Went back to a crash box for a while in Peterbilts and Freightliners when first driving trucks in the States and hated them mainly due to the fact that most of them required the use of a very heavy clutch. Loved it when the company decided to go over to big Volvos with full auto boxes (Warrantied for 750,000 miles) and even the diehard conventional style american truck drivers in the firm have been won over although they do have one Volvo with the Fuller for comparison. Plus the Volvos are returning 2 mpg more than the Ps and Fs.
The 350 Transcon (but with 9-speed) that I drove was probably the fastest truck I ever piloted - I think I broke the sound barrier down the M11 one evening! Wonderful tool. By the way, the Fuller is a constant-mesh 'box, but I believe ‘crash’ boxes went out in the '20s. Cheers. Robert 
we had 3 of these 1981 170F26 FIAT’s , all had the 13 speed fuller box , which i thought was a peach of a gearbox , loved the way it would pull away from lights solo in high crawler, good driveline , shame everything else fell apart around it. but it was my first new truck and i thought the world of it (even though F7’s used to overtake me on a regular basis)
robert1952:
chazzer:
I had a Transcon with a 350 ■■■■■■■ uprated to 375 and a 13 speed Fuller that was clocked at 96mph tractor only but it was about the only crash box that I drove that I ever really liked as once rolling would slip through the gears without the need to use the clutch every time, always prefered synchro boxes until auto boxes came along which after years of using a clutch I find much more preferable. Went back to a crash box for a while in Peterbilts and Freightliners when first driving trucks in the States and hated them mainly due to the fact that most of them required the use of a very heavy clutch. Loved it when the company decided to go over to big Volvos with full auto boxes (Warrantied for 750,000 miles) and even the diehard conventional style american truck drivers in the firm have been won over although they do have one Volvo with the Fuller for comparison. Plus the Volvos are returning 2 mpg more than the Ps and Fs.By the way, the Fuller is a constant-mesh 'box, but I believe ‘crash’ boxes went out in the '20s. Cheers. Robert
It’s surprising how often constant mesh boxes get confused with the older ‘crash’ ( sliding mesh ) type although sliding mesh boxes were still common up to and after WW2.While the driving skills needed are more or less the same for both.
The reference to heavy clutch actuation on US types seems to have been mentioned elsewhere which is strange being that air assisted clutch actuation has been available since at least the 1970’s possibly earlier. 
robert1952:
Lorries with 9 speed Fullers
This thread seeks to identify as many makes and models of lorries as possible, that had the 9-speed Fuller Roadranger ‘box.
I appreciate that the 13-speed Fuller ‘box was only a 9-speed ‘box with overdrive on the top four gears but they were quite different to use, simply because the 9-speeder could be used clutch-less, but the splitter mechanism on the 13-speeder demanded use of the clutch to send the split gears through. One blogger has argued with me on this point elsewhere, and I respect his views on the subject. Arguably too, the 13-speeder was a more efficient ‘box because of the increased number of ratios.
Nonetheless, I am looking for evidence of 9-speed ‘boxes on this particular thread. I have actually collected lots of evidence already, which I’ll share with you (as I always do). The biggest problem is not identifying makes / models that had Fuller 9s, but finding actual pictures of lorries that we can be certain had Fuller 9s in them. For example, we all know that, in theory, B-series ERFs were equipped with Fuller 9s as standard equipment, but photos of ERFs do not give away the gearbox within!
In some models, 9-speed Fullers were only offered under certain circumstances, or with certain engines. For example, DAF specified the 9-speed Fuller for its (then new) DKSE model, but only in Britain (European models had 16-speed ZFs).
So I’m striving in this thread to match actual pictures of lorries, to evidence of the Fuller 9 attached to their engines! Let’s start by moving from the ‘known’ to the ‘unknown’, by showing some pics of trucks that I drove with 9-speed Fullers, so that I know for certain that they had ‘em. Stocking this thread is not as easy as it looks, chaps! Going to be an interesting one, this! Robert ïŠ0
Hiya Robert and the rest of old timers ? just enjoyed the reading and pics pal good job well done I had numerous motors with the fuller 9 and was too frightened to use crawler in high for fear of making a mess but you learn something new everyday keep up the good work lads
I took the 9 speed fuller out of this and fitted a fuller 13 speed double overdrive and it’s in use every day
And a handsome Foden it is, too! Glad to see it’s still going. Robert
Thank you Robert, it was rebuilt and put back on the road in July 2013 so I’m hoping for a few years out of the old girl yet 
Regards , Armstrong
Armstrong:
Thank you Robert, it was rebuilt and put back on the road in July 2013 so I’m hoping for a few years out of the old girl yet
Regards , Armstrong
Could easily see you through to retirement Nigel! I could still clamber in that and do a days work, wouldn’t know where to start with all this fancy tackle that some folk run these days. 
Pete.
Hi Pete, I haven’t owned a lorry with a synchro box yet, I’m giving it a while to see if they catch on
let me know when you want to start …
Ref the heavy clutch on US trucks it seems that American truck manufacturers insist on making trucks alongside the same time the same lines as earlier versions and call them traditional models. If you look at some new Peterbilt and Freightliners they still have long bonnets, small windscreens and narrow fixed mirrors in the ‘‘traditional’’ mode although they do both make more modern versions with many european features given that P B are owned by Paccar who own Daf and are using euro engines and FL are part of Mercedes Benz and some models use Mercedes engines.
Last week I drove a lorry with a 9-speed box for the first time since 1978. That was a BRS Leyland Buffalo; this time it was a ■■■■■■■ engined, non-sleeper Volvo. A driving test for my new employer; even at the age of 60 they wanted to see that I knew how to drive. It made me feel a bit better when the guy who tested me said he was 68. Anyway; this 9-speed snicked into gear a lot easier than the 18-speed I normally use.
Armstrong:
Hi Pete, I haven’t owned a lorry with a synchro box yet, I’m giving it a while to see if they catch on
let me know when you want to start …
Not before 4am these days Nigel, I have to get the missus her breakfast! Just book me on a nice load of tarmac down to either Carmarthen depot or Cardiff Docks, a load of granite back from Mancetter or Gore (not fussy which) and that will fill my day in nicely thank you very much. 
Off now to set the alarm and find my snap bag… oh and the last truck I drove with a synchro box would be a BMC Mastiff back in 1978!
Pete.
chazzer:
Ref the heavy clutch on US trucks it seems that American truck manufacturers insist on making trucks alongside the same time the same lines as earlier versions and call them traditional models. If you look at some new Peterbilt and Freightliners they still have long bonnets, small windscreens and narrow fixed mirrors in the ‘‘traditional’’ mode although they do both make more modern versions with many european features given that P B are owned by Paccar who own Daf and are using euro engines and FL are part of Mercedes Benz and some models use Mercedes engines.
Ironically there still shouldn’t be any inconsistency in the use of air assisted clutches and a ‘traditionally’ built truck.I’d guess that the air assisted clutch used on the 1970’s Bedford TM in Detroit Fuller spec for example would have been an American based system not European.There’s really only one reason why any truck at least since the 1970’s wouldn’t be fitted with such an essential and that’s operators/manufacturers trying to save a few bob.On that note I don’t think that anything could have had a heavier clutch than unassisted lash up in the old Leyland Cydesdale for example at a time when the TM and DAF’s at least,amongst others,were fitted with air assist.The same issue obviously applies in North America all these years later.
There was no assistance on the clutch pedal in my 2013 Peterbilt although it wasn’t as heavy as the one in the 2005 I had before it, that was almost a two feet job and not fun in stop start traffic at all.
Regarding air assistance (off topic of course!) our Foden S39’s with Fodens own 17 inch clutch were without assistance but the S50 half cabs and dumpers did have an air cylinder, similar to a small brake chamber, mounted on the clutch cross shaft. The clutches without assistance had less springs, however if we fitted one to an air assisted vehicle they were far too light (lighter than the Gardner throttle, you could fully depress the clutch by hand standing outside the cab door) and the driver had no ‘feel’ over the clutch which caused propshaft breakages!
Of course the assistance was only good if set up correctly, some were far heavier than the non assisted vehicles until adjusted properly.
Pete.
this iveco in this vid as the 9 speed fuller vid from 1987 youtu.be/G6HzjRHBQwo
