Retired Old ■■■■:
Thanks for that, Andrew. I wonder how it would have matched up to the Gardner 180s that most of us were using at the same weight. And did the cab tend to fall apart with the vibration, much as the earlier TK/ Leylands used to?
I think the answers in the question there must be 1000s of 6LXBs still in operation but not many Blue Series Bedford engines still around going strong
erm are you sure about that? what about all the tm’s that the british army have? must be many hundreds. loads of ex army ones for sale aswell.
In my limited experience, the Army’s Bedfords will have had a really easy life from day one. That’s if they even came out of the storage compounds at all!
ok then,find a vehicle for sale thats fitted with a 6lxb. or find some that are still in operation…
easy life or not ,there are still plenty of bedford blue series engines around
newmercman:
[zb] not going to be running fast, 62mph, it’s the new Volvo XE driveline, gear em fast, drive em slow, all about the mpgs…
We had a representitive from Volvo a few years ago who invited us to the local dealers and he showed us all the engine /gearbox /rear axle combinations from his laptop .This showed the most efficent driveline for our operation ,to be fair it was very interesting … oh and we opted for 5 G cabbed Scania 400s with the overdrive opticruise running at 56 mph right at the bottom of the green band but with our vehicles grossing 21 tons they rarely needed to drop a gear
Retired Old ■■■■:
Thanks for that, Andrew. I wonder how it would have matched up to the Gardner 180s that most of us were using at the same weight. And did the cab tend to fall apart with the vibration, much as the earlier TK/ Leylands used to?
I think the answers in the question there must be 1000s of 6LXBs still in operation but not many Blue Series Bedford engines still around going strong
erm are you sure about that? what about all the tm’s that the british army have? must be many hundreds. loads of ex army ones for sale aswell.
In my limited experience, the Army’s Bedfords will have had a really easy life from day one. That’s if they even came out of the storage compounds at all!
ok then,find a vehicle for sale thats fitted with a 6lxb. or find some that are still in operation…
easy life or not ,there are still plenty of bedford blue series engines around
Come to my home town of Nottingham where Goose Fair the biggest oldest travelling fair in the world comes every October 99% of the generators are all Gardner run
That’s after they’ve probably spent 20 years plus fitted in either a lorry or bus then removed to be used has a stationary generator running at a 1000RPM
The lorries are all modern nowadays ie Volvo DAFs Scanias and Renaults all carrying stationary Gardner engines but in the 40 plus years I’ve
been going to the fair I’ve never seen a blue series engine used as a generator or a Bedford lorry pulling a ride
In fact all the classic lorry/ steam shows I go to I’ve never seen a blue series engine being used as a generator funnily though they all seem to be Gardner generators that seems kinda odd don’t you think
It must be that they were in their day the most proven reliable engines ever built
That’s why 1000s are still be used today as generators but if your ever lucky enough to go to Hollywood I went in October last year you’ll see around 20 Red Double decker buses being used and as tour buses and surprise surprise yep you guessed it they’re all 180 Gardner powered the firm that operates them can’t get enough of them even their sister company in New York which I’ve also had the pleasure to visit runs the same tour buses and again first prize for guessing they too are Gardner powered and again no sign of a blue series Bedford engine
Just one more thing you’ll have to visit the Far East where still to this day hundreds of boats junks ships and again buses are still in every day use all powered again by the mighty ultra reliable Gardner 180 funny that not a Blue series Bedford engine in sight I wonder why ?
Retired Old ■■■■:
Thanks for that, Andrew. I wonder how it would have matched up to the Gardner 180s that most of us were using at the same weight. And did the cab tend to fall apart with the vibration, much as the earlier TK/ Leylands used to?
I think the answers in the question there must be 1000s of 6LXBs still in operation but not many Blue Series Bedford engines still around going strong
erm are you sure about that? what about all the tm’s that the british army have? must be many hundreds. loads of ex army ones for sale aswell.
In my limited experience, the Army’s Bedfords will have had a really easy life from day one. That’s if they even came out of the storage compounds at all!
ok then,find a vehicle for sale thats fitted with a 6lxb. or find some that are still in operation…
easy life or not ,there are still plenty of bedford blue series engines around
Come to my home town of Nottingham where Goose Fair the biggest oldest travelling fair in the world comes every October 99% of the generators are all Gardner run
That’s after they’ve probably spent 20 years plus fitted in either a lorry or bus then removed to be used has a stationary generator running at a 1000RPM
The lorries are all modern nowadays ie Volvo DAFs Scanias and Renaults all carrying stationary Gardner engines but in the 40 plus years I’ve
been going to the fair I’ve never seen a blue series engine used as a generator or a Bedford lorry pulling a ride
In fact all the classic lorry/ steam shows I go to I’ve never seen a blue series engine being used as a generator funnily though they all seem to be Gardner generators that seems kinda odd don’t you think
It must be that they were in their day the most proven reliable engines ever built
That’s why 1000s are still be used today as generators but if your ever lucky enough to go to Hollywood I went in October last year you’ll see around 20 Red Double decker buses being used and as tour buses and surprise surprise yep you guessed it they’re all 180 Gardner powered the firm that operates them can’t get enough of them even their sister company in New York which I’ve also had the pleasure to visit runs the same tour buses and again first prize for guessing they too are Gardner powered and again no sign of a blue series Bedford engine
Just one more thing you’ll have to visit the Far East where still to this day hundreds of boats junks ships and again buses are still in every day use all powered again by the mighty ultra reliable Gardner 180 funny that not a Blue series Bedford engine in sight I wonder why ?
point taken lol.although i still stand by my point that plenty of blue series 500 engines are still in use.i’m not suggesting for a minute the “mighty gardner” isnt the superior engine.
Going back to the original topic we used to do a changeover with a firm from Edinburgh in the early 80s at Birtley they ran several Bedford TMs some fitted with ■■■■■■■ and others with the Bedford engines but all fitted with the Fuller 9 speed
newmercman:
[zb] not going to be running fast, 62mph, it’s the new Volvo XE driveline, gear em fast, drive em slow, all about the mpgs…
We had a representitive from Volvo a few years ago who invited us to the local dealers and he showed us all the engine /gearbox /rear axle combinations from his laptop .This showed the most efficent driveline for our operation ,to be fair it was very interesting … oh and we opted for 5 G cabbed Scania 400s with the overdrive opticruise running at 56 mph right at the bottom of the green band but with our vehicles grossing 21 tons they rarely needed to drop a gear
The fact is the overdrive top box choice allows more flexibility in final drive ratio than the direct top choice does.In the case of the latter the final drive choice will be governed by that most efficient engine speed possible for flat motorway type running speeds which then has a knock on effect throughout the whole range because it’s all based on that final drive choice which affects the overall gearing which,unlike obtaining the required high gear by providing the required flat motorway running ratio in the box instead of the final drive,affects every gear.Whereas in the case of the overdrive box that efficient flat motorway speed is provided by top gear in the box not by running a compromised higher than ideal overall gearing set up,based on a compromised,higher than would otherwise be needed,final drive ratio.
The end result of the overdrive/lower final drive choice being a wagon that has more torque at the wheels in all the intermediate gears by way of the lower overall gearing so less downshifts required and faster hill climbing ability but which still has the ‘right’ gearing for flat motorway running.Which ‘would’ have required the compromised higher final drive/overall gearing with a direct top box with all the implications of that regards hill climbing ability and average speeds and more downshifts required on anything other than flat motorway running.
That’s right Geoffrey, what do those engineers at Scania and Volvo know, bloody amateurs
Most of my work involves 900 miles running on flat ground, then a couple of mountain ranges that will have any lorry going down through the gears, then turn around and do it all again in the opposite direction. So direct top is perfect for the job.
I could run 3.36 gears with double overdrive, or 2 93s with single overdrive or 2 43s with direct, top gear cruising rpms will be the same, as will rpms in the next slot down in all the boxes, tomayto, tomahto…
newmercman:
That’s right Geoffrey, what do those engineers at Scania and Volvo know, bloody amateurs
Most of my work involves 900 miles running on flat ground, then a couple of mountain ranges that will have any lorry going down through the gears, then turn around and do it all again in the opposite direction. So direct top is perfect for the job.
I could run 3.36 gears with double overdrive, or 2 93s with single overdrive or 2 43s with direct, top gear cruising rpms will be the same, as will rpms in the next slot down in all the boxes, tomayto, tomahto…
You got it spot on, by my ■■■■-eyed theory, using a direct-top 'box. It will be in direct drive for all of those 900miles, I imagine. When the hills start, you will see the next two gears down for a few minutes, then into the lower gears. An overdrive 'box would be pointless. Just out of interest, is a higher axle ratio available in those Yankee Volvos?
Hey all, The 1.1 top ratio is Always the most economical,but lots depend of the manufacturers.
An overdrive is mostly an easy option to go faster without a faster final ratio, which has to be made stonger if you want to destroy it. As Volvo did in the past an overdrive and you had 16 speeds. The strong backaxle could stay and didn’t have to made it stronger with a faster ratio. And in that time less HP’s and you could drive in 1.1 if more power was needed. But look if you put an overdrive at a lorry with a long wheelbase than turns the propshaft faster and faster so becomes very weak. But what some marques see in double or triple overdrives I don’t know.
Scania never used overdrives,they Always told no anyway, look now, and think they use them to save the driveaxles nowadays.we are gowing a bit of topic, but Fuller offered Always the two as an RT or RTO with both 09/13 speeds.
but at a time all came with an RT,and i preffered the shifts with a RTO i found it easier. But yes not so economical.
But what’s the difference, never measured, but today all go for the last drop, what do you want.
What makes driving annoing,in the past as the work was done it was OK. But today you must stay in hours and thereafter it’s for tomorrow ans so you have to be as economical as possible.
Only my opinion, but what i see here is that the more electronic shift the more you have to change the clutches.
tiptop495:
we are gowing a bit of topic, but Fuller offered Always the two as an RT or RTO with both 09/13 speeds.
but at a time all came with an RT,and i preffered the shifts with a RTO i found it easier. But yes not so economical.
But what’s the difference, never measured, but today all go for the last drop, what do you want.
Cheers Eric,
Eric makes an interesting point when he says, ‘But what’s the difference, never measured…’ From a driver’s point of view, it would be wonderful to be given half a dozen fully freighted identical lorries (say, ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ ERFs for the sake of argument), each with a different variation of the 9-speed Fuller and be asked which version is most satisfying to use. The driver’s choice might not be the most economical or efficient, but a happy driver (in my opinion) will save more money than efficient equipment, if the margin is as narrow as it would be in this case (obviously I’m not talking about making boy-racers happy by giving them ungoverned 600 bhp trucks to burn your money away with). Driver satisfaction is an underestimated asset, and given that followers of this thread would probably agree that providing him with a 9-speed Fuller will already meet most of his needs, why not refine this further by giving him the most agreeable version of that 'box? Just a thought. Robert
Of all the gearboxes I’ve ever used I would say that for ease of use the Twin Splitter behind my Eurostar’s big V8 was the best, don’t remember ever getting that wrong and it slipped into cog like a knife through butter.
If we’re being 9spd specific then it has to be my Transcon, a complete contrast to the Seddon Atki with the same engine and box.
newmercman:
Of all the gearboxes I’ve ever used I would say that for ease of use the Twin Splitter behind my Eurostar’s big V8 was the best, don’t remember ever getting that wrong and it slipped into cog like a knife through butter.
If we’re being 9spd specific then it has to be my Transcon, a complete contrast to the Seddon Atki with the same engine and box.
I’m very, very close to being with you there: if not being 9-speed specific, I would defo go for my Eurostar / Twin-splitter combination (tho’ mine was a 14-litre straight six, but never mind). The 9-speeders I drove in Transcons were as good as any I used. Robert
So up against the silky smooth shifts with a Fuller the alternative on the IVECO and the 2800/3300 was that nasty ZF EcoSplit, almost impossible to change when it was cold and not much better when warmed up, some manufacturers used a hydraulic linkage to ease the shift loads, but although that eased shoulder injuries, it left the stick devoid of any feel. Ticking the ZF box was one sure fire way of ruining what could’ve been a very nice lorry
newmercman:
So up against the silky smooth shifts with a Fuller the alternative on the IVECO and the 2800/3300 was that nasty ZF EcoSplit, almost impossible to change when it was cold and not much better when warmed up, some manufacturers used a hydraulic linkage to ease the shift loads, but although that eased shoulder injuries, it left the stick devoid of any feel. Ticking the ZF box was one sure fire way of ruining what could’ve been a very nice lorry
Absolutely! It was a backward step. Only DAF managed to make it more acceptable in its 4-over-4 form in the DAF 95, where it was quite pleasant to use, for a synchro-box. Robert
newmercman:
So up against the silky smooth shifts with a Fuller the alternative on the IVECO and the 2800/3300 was that nasty ZF EcoSplit, almost impossible to change when it was cold and not much better when warmed up, some manufacturers used a hydraulic linkage to ease the shift loads, but although that eased shoulder injuries, it left the stick devoid of any feel. Ticking the ZF box was one sure fire way of ruining what could’ve been a very nice lorry
Absolutely! It was a backward step. Only DAF managed to make it more acceptable in its 4-over-4 form in the DAF 95, where it was quite pleasant to use, for a synchro-box. Robert
As I’ve said elsewhere the ZF 12 speed constant mesh option used in the DAF 2800 was the next best thing to a Fuller 13 speed and arguably superior to the 9 speed fuller.So why anyone,either in the form of customer demand,or manufacturers,would then want to ruin either of those constant mesh choices with any of the zb heavy slow shifting synchro options is a mystery.The only reason that I can think of is that it all started when ze Germans found out that they aren’t as good drivers as they’d like to think they are and then judged everyone by their own standards. Leading to the logical conclusion of where we are now with ‘proper’ boxes lke the Fuller and ZF constant mesh options etc being outlawed by the EU powers supposedly because all the constant mesh options are too ‘noisy’.
newmercman:
So up against the silky smooth shifts with a Fuller the alternative on the IVECO and the 2800/3300 was that nasty ZF EcoSplit, almost impossible to change when it was cold and not much better when warmed up, some manufacturers used a hydraulic linkage to ease the shift loads, but although that eased shoulder injuries, it left the stick devoid of any feel. Ticking the ZF box was one sure fire way of ruining what could’ve been a very nice lorry
Absolutely! It was a backward step. Only DAF managed to make it more acceptable in its 4-over-4 form in the DAF 95, where it was quite pleasant to use, for a synchro-box. Robert
As I’ve said elsewhere the ZF 12 speed constant mesh option used in the DAF 2800 was the next best thing to a Fuller 13 speed and arguably superior to the 9 speed fuller.So why anyone,either in the form of customer demand,or manufacturers,would then want to ruin either of those constant mesh choices with any of the zb heavy slow shifting synchro options is a mystery.The only reason that I can think of is that it all started when ze Germans found out that they aren’t as good drivers as they’d like to think they are and then judged everyone by their own standards. Leading to the logical conclusion of where we are now with ‘proper’ boxes lke the Fuller and ZF constant mesh options etc being outlawed by the EU powers supposedly because all the constant mesh options are too ‘noisy’.
True, Carryfast, true! The next step in the driver de-skilling programme was to make everyone use the dreaded EPS whether we wanted it or not, after which it was downhill all the way. Robert
hey, never driven a 9 sp fuller,but in my view i compare it a bit with the 8 or 9 sp Volvo or Scannie 10 sp.
You need torque and an engine which hold on and on, and if Always change at ±2000revs and begin at ±1500 you will have a real workhorse (or one which makes the workshop a good living .
but if you do that with a 13 or 16 speeder you can get the same out it.
My opinion, but as you know I’m a fanatic of a lot of speeds (at least 12).
But yes a 16 or… box has a weak point with careless drivers, if they change in the low range uphill, you can buy a box of driveaxles.
tiptop495:
hey, never driven a 9 sp fuller,but in my view i compare it a bit with the 8 or 9 sp Volvo or Scannie 10 sp.
You need torque and an engine which hold on and on, and if Always change at ±2000revs and begin at ±1500 you will have a real workhorse (or one which makes the workshop a good living .
but if you do that with a 13 or 16 speeder you can get the same out it.
My opinion, but as you know I’m a fanatic of a lot of speeds (at least 12).
But yes a 16 or… box has a weak point with careless drivers, if they change in the low range uphill, you can buy a box of driveaxles.
Cheers Eric,
I suppose in a sense you have driven a 9-speed Fuller because the 13-speed Fuller is one with knobs on! Robert
robert1952:
Lorries with 9 speed Fullers
This thread seeks to identify as many makes and models of lorries as possible, that had the 9-speed Fuller Roadranger ‘box.
I appreciate that the 13-speed Fuller ‘box was only a 9-speed ‘box with overdrive on the top four gears but they were quite different to use, simply because the 9-speeder could be used clutch-less, but the splitter mechanism on the 13-speeder demanded use of the clutch to send the split gears through. One blogger has argued with me on this point elsewhere, and I respect his views on the subject. Arguably too, the 13-speeder was a more efficient ‘box because of the increased number of ratios.
Nonetheless, I am looking for evidence of 9-speed ‘boxes on this particular thread. I have actually collected lots of evidence already, which I’ll share with you (as I always do). The biggest problem is not identifying makes / models that had Fuller 9s, but finding actual pictures of lorries that we can be certain had Fuller 9s in them. For example, we all know that, in theory, B-series ERFs were equipped with Fuller 9s as standard equipment, but photos of ERFs do not give away the gearbox within!
In some models, 9-speed Fullers were only offered under certain circumstances, or with certain engines. For example, DAF specified the 9-speed Fuller for its (then new) DKSE model, but only in Britain (European models had 16-speed ZFs).
So I’m striving in this thread to match actual pictures of lorries, to evidence of the Fuller 9 attached to their engines! Let’s start by moving from the ‘known’ to the ‘unknown’, by showing some pics of trucks that I drove with 9-speed Fullers, so that I know for certain that they had ‘em. Stocking this thread is not as easy as it looks, chaps! Going to be an interesting one, this! Robert ïŠ
0
Regarding your comment on the 13 speed fuller, you don’t use the clutch when using the overdrive, only when changing full gears.
Cheers
Leading to the logical conclusion of where we are now with ‘proper’ boxes lke the Fuller and ZF constant mesh options etc being outlawed by the EU powers supposedly because all the constant mesh options are too ‘noisy’. 
.