Legal Test Case Clarifies Ferry Rest Periods

[m4rky]

Taken from the RHA

"For international drivers travelling to and from the continent by ferry or train, the legislation regarding ‘ferry rest period’ has never been clear, writes Tachodisc MD Karen Crispe. The question has always been ‘should the interruptions to a daily rest period of driving on and off a ferry or train be added to the daily driving time or to the weekly driving time?’

We can now shed light on this and confirm that a new legal test case has served to clarify what was seen as a loop-hole in the legislation text.

The EU Commission has confirmed that a driver travelling on and off a ferry or train is allowed to interrupt a regular daily rest twice for up to 60 minutes total. This time should be added to the weekly driving limit but not to the daily driving limit."

So there you are - It would seem that we can drive for 9 - 10hrs - End our daily shift and then drive onto and off of the ferry and just add the time to our weekly driving limit. Great! - As if we don’t do enough hours as it is!

Source:
http://www.tachodisc.co.uk/ask/in-the-news/rt-compliance-newsletter-july-2012/

[dieseldave]

Hi m4rky,

Cheers for that!!

I’ve copied this into the Safety and Law forum.

[inselaffe]

m4rky:
Taken from the RHA

"For international drivers travelling to and from the continent by ferry or train, the legislation regarding ‘ferry rest period’ has never been clear, writes Tachodisc MD Karen Crispe. The question has always been ‘should the interruptions to a daily rest period of driving on and off a ferry or train be added to the daily driving time or to the weekly driving time?’

We can now shed light on this and confirm that a new legal test case has served to clarify what was seen as a loop-hole in the legislation text.

The EU Commission has confirmed that a driver travelling on and off a ferry or train is allowed to interrupt a regular daily rest twice for up to 60 minutes total. This time should be added to the weekly driving limit but not to the daily driving limit."

What are these pen pushing morons on??

How on earth can they rule that the ferry movements are not to be added to the daily driving time?

This really beggars belief

So how long before drivers are told to “get an hour down the road” after getting off the boat as “it is now legal to drive 11 hours a day if using a ferry”

[m4rky]

dieseldave:
Hi m4rky,

Cheers for that!!

I’ve copied this into the Safety and Law forum.

Your welcome Dave and cheers

[m4rky]

Inselaffe:

m4rky:
Taken from the RHA

"For international drivers travelling to and from the continent by ferry or train, the legislation regarding ‘ferry rest period’ has never been clear, writes Tachodisc MD Karen Crispe. The question has always been ‘should the interruptions to a daily rest period of driving on and off a ferry or train be added to the daily driving time or to the weekly driving time?’

We can now shed light on this and confirm that a new legal test case has served to clarify what was seen as a loop-hole in the legislation text.

The EU Commission has confirmed that a driver travelling on and off a ferry or train is allowed to interrupt a regular daily rest twice for up to 60 minutes total. This time should be added to the weekly driving limit but not to the daily driving limit."

What are these pen pushing morons on??

How on earth can they rule that the ferry movements are not to be added to the daily driving time?

This really beggars belief

So how long before drivers are told to “get an hour down the road” after getting off the boat as “it is now legal to drive 11 hours a day if using a ferry”

When my firm find out about this - that is exactly what they will be telling us to do. Not good when I sometimes get 4 ferries a week. This has really not been thought through and there will be some very tired drivers out there who are driving quite legally.

So as you say “This really beggars belief”

[wheel_nut]

Inselaffe:

m4rky:
Taken from the RHA

"For international drivers travelling to and from the continent by ferry or train, the legislation regarding ‘ferry rest period’ has never been clear, writes Tachodisc MD Karen Crispe. The question has always been ‘should the interruptions to a daily rest period of driving on and off a ferry or train be added to the daily driving time or to the weekly driving time?’

We can now shed light on this and confirm that a new legal test case has served to clarify what was seen as a loop-hole in the legislation text.

The EU Commission has confirmed that a driver travelling on and off a ferry or train is allowed to interrupt a regular daily rest twice for up to 60 minutes total. This time should be added to the weekly driving limit but not to the daily driving limit."

What are these pen pushing morons on??

How on earth can they rule that the ferry movements are not to be added to the daily driving time?

This really beggars belief

So how long before drivers are told to “get an hour down the road” after getting off the boat as “it is now legal to drive 11 hours a day if using a ferry”

Whatever the case number of this test case then they clearly have not got any idea of the legislation as agreed by the member states.

I have never seen any loophole appearing in the original 561/2006 document. It is simple, a driver may only drive for 9 hours between two daily rest periods, that same driver may only drive 56 hours in a fixed weekly period.

That equates to the following for example;

Monday 9
Tuesday 9
Wednesday 10
Thursday 9
Friday 10
Saturday 9
=56 Hours

Even a short period of driving under EU rules during any day by a driver will mean that he is in scope of the EU rules for the whole of that day and must comply with the daily driving, break and rest requirements; he will also have to comply with the weekly rest requirement and driving limit.

So now because of some interfering court they have rewritten the rules which will cause even more confusion.

According to the story as printed. I can now drive across England doing collections and catch a late ferry out of Holyhead, as long as I am inside the port before I have reached 9 hours driving I can then do another hour off the clock so to speak. I can then do the same for another 4 days and then utilise my last six hours up to the weekly limit or fortnightly limit of 56 or 90 hours

There was no loophole before but by hell there is now

I have the ear of Mike Penning I will let him explain that one to me, maybe he will get G4S in to translate.

I think what they meant to write was not this;

The EU Commission has confirmed that a driver travelling on and off a ferry or train is allowed to interrupt a regular daily rest twice for up to 60 minutes total. This time should be added to the weekly driving limit but not to the daily driving limit."

But this;

The EU Commission has confirmed that a driver travelling on and off a ferry or train is allowed to interrupt a regular daily rest twice for up to 60 minutes total. This time should be added to the weekly rest period but not to the daily rest period."

[wheel_nut]

Reading again what I have just written, it appears more likely that this has returned us to the days of compensating for a shortened rest period at or before the end of the week.

The title on the thread is the same used by RT and RHA

LEGAL TEST CASE CLARIFIES ‘FERRY REST PERIODS’
By Karen Crispe, Tachodisc’s Managing Director

It doesn’t say

LEGAL TEST CASE CLARIFIES ‘FERRY DRIVING PERIODS’
By Karen Crispe, Tachodisc’s Managing Director

[dieseldave]

I’ve been thinking about this too…

A daily rest must still fit within the 24hr period commencing at the start of the shift, so there is an implied limit.

[taffytrucker]

but dont forget can only use ferry/train mode if you have access to a couch or couchette. So in theory crossings like the Dover - Calais wouldnt count in that

[wheel_nut]

taffytrucker:
but dont forget can only use ferry/train mode if you have access to a couch or couchette. So in theory crossings like the Dover - Calais wouldnt count in that

That is a separate issue I think. I cannot really find where the RHA or Karen Crispe have taken this landmark case from. Certainly not from the EUR LEX or IRU.

I have just searched every addendum, corrigendum and update from 2012 and can find nothing about it. The RHA apparently have put the same information on their own website and no doubt the FTA will follow suit.

[taffytrucker]

Wheel Nut:

taffytrucker:
but dont forget can only use ferry/train mode if you have access to a couch or couchette. So in theory crossings like the Dover - Calais wouldnt count in that

That is a separate issue I think. I cannot really find where the RHA or Karen Crispe have taken this landmark case from. Certainly not from the EUR LEX or IRU.

I have just searched every addendum, corrigendum and update from 2012 and can find nothing about it. The RHA apparently have put the same information on their own website and no doubt the FTA will follow suit.

I thought it would be tied to the same as it is a spilt dailt rest you are having if you are to use that mode

[simon]

taffytrucker:

Wheel Nut:

taffytrucker:
but dont forget can only use ferry/train mode if you have access to a couch or couchette. So in theory crossings like the Dover - Calais wouldnt count in that

That is a separate issue I think. I cannot really find where the RHA or Karen Crispe have taken this landmark case from. Certainly not from the EUR LEX or IRU.

I have just searched every addendum, corrigendum and update from 2012 and can find nothing about it. The RHA apparently have put the same information on their own website and no doubt the FTA will follow suit.

I thought it would be tied to the same as it is a spilt dailt rest you are having if you are to use that mode

What would be a split daily rest if you use what mode?
If you use ferry mode to move onto and/or off a ferry, it is not a split daily rest.
It is a daily rest with an interruption to move onto and/or off a ferry.

A split daily rest is a completely different thing. A split daily rest is 12 hours rest (or more), split into two parts. The first part has to be 3 hours or more, the second part has to be 9 hours or more and it all has to fit into the 24 hours from when your day started.

The thing is, the regulations refer to a split daily rest. So if you call using ferry mode to interrupt a rest as split daily rest for your own convenience (which is perfectly fine and entirely up to you), you need to remember not to do the same thing when talking or posting. Calling it a split daily rest when it isn’t causes confusion in your listeners or readers, which can lead to rumour and more MMTM (My Mate Told Me) rules.

[djw]

Wheel Nut:
That is a separate issue I think. I cannot really find where the RHA or Karen Crispe have taken this landmark case from. Certainly not from the EUR LEX or IRU.

I’m with you, Malc. There’s nothing on europa.eu, the official EU web site - and the article hints that it may be a letter from the Commission, not a Court of Justice of the European Union ruling. If it is just a letter from the Commission, it has relatively little weight - it is just their opinion on what the law is.

What matters is what the CJEU has ruled; though there is no formal system of precedent in EU law, the CJEU typically follows its earlier rulings unless there is good reason to depart from them. Article 267 TFEU gives CJEU jurisdiction to rule on interpretation of EU law:

The Court of Justice of the European Union shall have jurisdiction to give preliminary rulings concerning:

(a) the interpretation of the Treaties;

(b) the validity and interpretation of acts of the institutions, bodies, offices or agencies of the Union;

Where such a question is raised before any court or tribunal of a Member State, that court or tribunal may, if it considers that a decision on the question is necessary to enable it to give judgment, request the Court to give a ruling thereon.

Where any such question is raised in a case pending before a court or tribunal of a Member State against whose decisions there is no judicial remedy under national law, that court or tribunal shall bring the matter before the Court.

If such a question is raised in a case pending before a court or tribunal of a Member State with regard to a person in custody, the Court of Justice of the European Union shall act with the minimum of delay.

An Article 267 TFEU ruling cannot be obtained other than in an ongoing case that revolves on a question of EU law - other attempts to use the reference procedure will lead to the CJEU declining jurisdiction (see, for example, Meillicke v ADV/ORGA AG (case C-83/91) [1992] ECR I-4871).

This “test case” should be treated with caution until its status is firmly established. Ignorance of the (true state of the) law is no defence. Is Tachodisc able to publish the original correspondence or other evidence for scrutiny?

[wheel_nut]

djw:

Wheel Nut:
That is a separate issue I think. I cannot really find where the RHA or Karen Crispe have taken this landmark case from. Certainly not from the EUR LEX or IRU.

I’m with you, Malc. There’s nothing on europa.eu, the official EU web site - and the article hints that it may be a letter from the Commission, not a Court of Justice of the European Union ruling. If it is just a letter from the Commission, it has relatively little weight - it is just their opinion on what the law is.

What matters is what the CJEU has ruled; though there is no formal system of precedent in EU law, the CJEU typically follows its earlier rulings unless there is good reason to depart from them. Article 267 TFEU gives CJEU jurisdiction to rule on interpretation of EU law:

The Court of Justice of the European Union shall have jurisdiction to give preliminary rulings concerning:

(a) the interpretation of the Treaties;

(b) the validity and interpretation of acts of the institutions, bodies, offices or agencies of the Union;

Where such a question is raised before any court or tribunal of a Member State, that court or tribunal may, if it considers that a decision on the question is necessary to enable it to give judgment, request the Court to give a ruling thereon.

Where any such question is raised in a case pending before a court or tribunal of a Member State against whose decisions there is no judicial remedy under national law, that court or tribunal shall bring the matter before the Court.

If such a question is raised in a case pending before a court or tribunal of a Member State with regard to a person in custody, the Court of Justice of the European Union shall act with the minimum of delay.

An Article 267 TFEU ruling cannot be obtained other than in an ongoing case that revolves on a question of EU law - other attempts to use the reference procedure will lead to the CJEU declining jurisdiction (see, for example, Meillicke v ADV/ORGA AG (case C-83/91) [1992] ECR I-4871).

This “test case” should be treated with caution until its status is firmly established. Ignorance of the (true state of the) law is no defence. Is Tachodisc able to publish the original correspondence or other evidence for scrutiny?

They appear to have gone quite silent on it at the moment, but wheels are in motion in Marsham Street to get an answer, although it may be found in Schiltigheim

[icee]

Inselaffe:

m4rky:
Taken from the RHA

"For international drivers travelling to and from the continent by ferry or train, the legislation regarding ‘ferry rest period’ has never been clear, writes Tachodisc MD Karen Crispe. The question has always been ‘should the interruptions to a daily rest period of driving on and off a ferry or train be added to the daily driving time or to the weekly driving time?’

We can now shed light on this and confirm that a new legal test case has served to clarify what was seen as a loop-hole in the legislation text.

The EU Commission has confirmed that a driver travelling on and off a ferry or train is allowed to interrupt a regular daily rest twice for up to 60 minutes total. This time should be added to the weekly driving limit but not to the daily driving limit."

What are these pen pushing morons on??

How on earth can they rule that the ferry movements are not to be added to the daily driving time?

This really beggars belief

So how long before drivers are told to “get an hour down the road” after getting off the boat as “it is now legal to drive 11 hours a day if using a ferry”

My goodness I hate you chocolate Europeans, hope I get to find another work where there aint someone complaining where you finally are allowed to work for one more hour. back to at least 15h drive, 8-9h rest so you can do something in a day. I want to work, no sit in the ■■■■■■■ truck looking around.

Don’t know why I read this forum because I get more upset the more I read, no wonder there is a economic problems in Europe gaaaah.

[wheel_nut]

I doubt I will get a quick answer to this question now. I wrote to Mike Penning in July and still waiting for his thoughts, however it looks likely that Justine Greening will be another ex Secretary of State for Transport and may be replaced by Patrick McLoughlin MP.

It seems to hinge on whether you really want another runway at Heathrow

[wheel_nut]

Mike Penning has probably got my name etched on his desk by now, such is my persistence in writing letters to him.

I asked about this legal test case for which there has not been one as such, but there is a discussion going on to clarify a rule.

[inselaffe]

Icee:
My goodness I hate you chocolate Europeans, hope I get to find another work where there aint someone complaining where you finally are allowed to work for one more hour. back to at least 15h drive, 8-9h rest so you can do something in a day. I want to work, no sit in the [zb] truck looking around.

Don’t know why I read this forum because I get more upset the more I read, no wonder there is a economic problems in Europe gaaaah.

Well, with that attitude, you should have no trouble finding a job.

You sound like the sort of manly man every haulage boss dreams of.

15 hours driving, guv? No bother.

Until of course you fall asleep at the wheel to be replaced by the next young gunslinger.

Best stay in Finland where the most damage you can do is to drive into one of your many lakes. Or an elk.

By the way, I am intrigued by your turn of phrase “chocolate Europeans”

Qu’est-ce que c’est que ça? A native of Belgium, perchance…

Mind how you go

[bernie_2]

…previously posted / discussed ferry rest legallities… bernie_2 » Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:43 pm and updated

…“Can you believe it ! for all the stress you can get from Vosa checkpoints over 4 hrs 31 driving and the last turn of the trailer legs_etc- - - I’ve just had a ‘conversation’ with a senior traffic area examiner area 5, concerning ROI and Northern Irish tramping using Holyhead and Belfast ferries using the 11 hour min Daily Rest, 2-interuption ferry Tacho rules every working day from Sunday to Thursday ; ie. a ferry crossing sunday monday tuesday and wednesday nights during each daily rest period… I made the point by outlining systematic disregard by the operator (Not a cowboy operation but working for a company that insists on keeping within the law )… that even if the working day is 13 hours or less to enable the ferry to be taken on a split 11 hour rest, the maximum continuous rest on any night over the 5 day continuous period is only 5 hours due to the operators insistance on running times ; also then driving long distances during the ferry movement period to enable a 13 hour or less working day to turn around from the East Mids with the next trailer back to the ferry; - guess what " no problem” as far as Vosa enforcement area 5 is concerned. !! Well , at the inquest of the first fatalities of any of my former colleagues, I want to be there to highlight Vosa’s corporate sitting on their hands contributing to their demise.
Insufficient rest on a day by day, week by week basis on a ‘bus route’ Sunday to Thursday Irish - East Midlands routine is out of order. The flip flop brigade and others would get get hammered - wouldn’t they ? ?- !. Can you believe it !. Its not a case of wanting companies prosecuted out of hand - - just get a fair deal for the overtired- ,( but vosa says tacho-legal) , drivers. Vosa obviously doesnt give a (zb) that the Drivers’ regs were supposed to be to ensure safe and sufficient rest and break periods… .

The job I was on as referred to above got stuffed by the downturn in the ROI economy so all that madness is over…I left sometime before…but now this european ’ OPINION ’ !!! utter madness !!! We’ll all roll over and get shafted as normal I suppose

bernie_2

[m4rky]

No bernie_2 its not over mate

Tonight I will be on my 3rd interrupted rest period due to a ferry movement over to Ireland in as many days

It really can be very tiring especially if on the other days during the week you have a reduced rest period or two - But remember this is quite legal under the present system

And yes if you are delivering to the republic it is European