Generally speaking…when we assume that Leyland and Foden (who did merge into Paccar) represent LARF-A and Atkinson and ERF (with proof of some buy-over-attempts) represent LARF-B, I think that current LARF-A (read PACCAR) and LARF-B (read MAN-SCANIA) could be active as separate brands as both (DAF, Peterbilt, Kenworth and MAN, SCANIA) still do. So
no optimal lorry should be assembled for all markets?
coomsey:
C, I,m liking that big time, but what if LARF decides to export Europe would surely be a no no
The Euro export market was already saturated and dominated by the respective big home players anyway.So nothing significant to lose in sales over there.But everything to gain in sales,regarding a protected,captive market,here at home and given the right products in question possibly also holding onto more of the old established colonial markets.The problem in that case being the conflict of interest in US component manufacturers helping us to compete against US based manufacturers in those markets.Although the result just being that the US manufacturing base just shot itself in the foot by allowing the Euros to dominate here which then just gave them the cash to then buy up/takeover the US truck manufacturing base anyway. 
On that note not helping us to create a joint Anglo/US truck manufacturing empire,using protectionist measures to create a matching market for it,across the English speaking world,to rival the Euros,was a massive mistake that damaged the truck manufacturing industries of both countries.But more so ours to the point of effectively ending it. 
coomsey:
I would imagine that Leyland would be main man in LARF , lets go with C n suppose that we,re not EU n have stopped imports. Not so far from the truth now. I,m thinking AEC powered rockwell fuller Strato cab ■■ Or would LARF ended up a Leyland. LARF Akky badge /ERF badge/Foden badge even nearer the truth ?
Realistically it wasn’t going to work unless it was a proper merger of equals and no prima donnas.Based on loose engine supplies from Rolls and hopefully home built ■■■■■■■ and Detroit 60 series and cross division access to both the TM and SA 401 cabs.On that note we probably could have reduced the name to Leyland/Foden/Bedford ( LFB ) group.The game changer in that case as I’ve said being the captive market created by the domestic customer choice of take it or leave it because we’ve closed the door to Euro/Scandinavian imports.
1)Are we considering Leyland to be Leyland Motors Ltd up until it became Leyland Motor Corporation, therefore including Albion and Scammell, but excluding the ACV group, or does the clock stop at 1950 for deciding what constitutes ‘Leyland’ ?
-
Are we only considering maximum weight tractor units or are we going to take into account the significant sales of rigid vehicles ?
-
Are we only trying to speculate on development of 1980’s era vehicles based on the 1950’s merger or are we also considering what could have resulted in the late 1950s and 1960s?
cav551:
1)Are we considering Leyland to be Leyland Motors Ltd up until it became Leyland Motor Corporation, therefore including Albion and Scammell, but excluding the ACV group, or does the clock stop at 1950 for deciding what constitutes ‘Leyland’ ?
Are we only considering maximum weight tractor units or are we going to take into account the significant sales of rigid vehicles ?
Are we only trying to speculate on development of 1980’s era vehicles based on the 1950’s merger or are we also considering what could have resulted in the late 1950s and 1960s?
Realistically it has to be all about the key period of the late 1970’s/early 1980’s which was the last chance to save it all.While the 1950’s would probably have been a case of it wasn’t broke at that time.So no need to fix it,by way of the product rationalisation and integration and import barriers,which weren’t needed then.But which were needed later.‘Rationalisation’ in that new hypothetical world probably meaning no place for AEC’s previous in house component manufacturing business plan in either case.
While the basic premise is probably mostly about the 24-38t + market sectors.I’d guess that Leyland and Bedford working together would have been able to produce some very respectable products to cover the 7.5-16 tonner sector.In that case on a probably more in house component manufacturing basis.
cav551:
1)Are we considering Leyland to be Leyland Motors Ltd up until it became Leyland Motor Corporation, therefore including Albion and Scammell, but excluding the ACV group, or does the clock stop at 1950 for deciding what constitutes ‘Leyland’ ?
Are we only considering maximum weight tractor units or are we going to take into account the significant sales of rigid vehicles ?
Are we only trying to speculate on development of 1980’s era vehicles based on the 1950’s merger or are we also considering what could have resulted in the late 1950s and 1960s?
I,m considering the wisdom of my topic, never thought it through. Mac W did n alarms bells started to ring above my tinnitus.This whole thing as got a bit of Red Dwarf about it because it,s contra factual so no rules n nobody can be wrong.Under this do we can argue anything n make it right Fred west / hitler /napoleon/ EU / how many times I swap my underpants.
So can we go into the real world, theres a statement !! We without doubt are leaving the EU, n can do ,in theory , what we fancy as a nation,( no Politics here! take note C .) Taking the practical malarkey out of it what would the newly revived fully financed LARF Co come up with ? I,m thinking a little bit,(only a little) are the euro boys the biz, will they ultimately rule the world, because they got it right n the rest did,nt ? Darwins survival of the fittest being the be all n end all of it ? Or am I talking bolux ?
coomsey:
So can we go into the real world, theres a statement !! We without doubt are leaving the EU, n can do ,in theory , what we fancy as a nation,( no Politics here! take note C .) Taking the practical malarkey out of it what would the newly revived fully financed LARF Co come up with ? I,m thinking a little bit,(only a little) are the euro boys the biz, will they ultimately rule the world, because they got it right n the rest did,nt ? Darwins survival of the fittest being the be all n end all of it ? Or am I talking bolux ?
Really it’s a bit late now when this needed to be sorted out around 40 years ago.
But is it too late.Probably not.
Trying not to be political.With a Trump regime across the pond and us no longer tied to EU type approval regs anything is theoretically possible.On that note would it be worth sacrificing the existing DAF UK assembly operation to set up a much more locally produced Kenworth UK one similar to KW’s Australian operations.Absolutely.
Carryfast:
coomsey:
So can we go into the real world, theres a statement !! We without doubt are leaving the EU, n can do ,in theory , what we fancy as a nation,( no Politics here! take note C .) Taking the practical malarkey out of it what would the newly revived fully financed LARF Co come up with ? I,m thinking a little bit,(only a little) are the euro boys the biz, will they ultimately rule the world, because they got it right n the rest did,nt ? Darwins survival of the fittest being the be all n end all of it ? Or am I talking bolux ?Really it’s a bit late now when this needed to be sorted out around 40 years ago.
But is it too late.Probably not.
Trying not to be political.With a Trump regime across the pond and us no longer tied to EU type approval regs anything is theoretically possible.On that note would it be worth sacrificing the existing DAF UK assembly operation to set up a much more locally produced Kenworth UK one similar to KW’s Australian operations.Absolutely.
Good solution! Robert
Here we go , Kenworths instead of Dafs obviously with the biggest engine available , who cares about productivity ,practability , and profit when you can have masses of chrome and a big bonnet ffs ■■? 
ramone:
Here we go , Kenworths instead of Dafs obviously with the biggest engine available , who cares about productivity ,practability , and profit when you can have masses of chrome and a big bonnet ffs ■■?
I think you’ve got me very wrong there (and probably CF too)! 
I’ve never cared a hoot for chrome or bonnets or the biggest engines for that matter; and have never been in the least impressed with un-ergonomic Yankee cabs - visually they don’t rock my boat. However, I have always been vastly impressed with US drive-lines: ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ in particular, as fitted to British-assembled lorries of the '70s and '80s plus. Now that - at last - US cab comfort is catching up with Euro-cab comfort, the Kenworth suddenly looks attractive especially if spec’d the Ozzy way. Come on ‘ramone’: where are the rules on here that state that we have to answer as an operator? I’m speaking as a driver here! Cheers, Robert
I don’t want to be too pedantic Robert, but the driveline you so admire was built in the UK, albeit American component designs and US owned subsidiaries.
robert1952:
ramone:
Here we go , Kenworths instead of Dafs obviously with the biggest engine available , who cares about productivity ,practability , and profit when you can have masses of chrome and a big bonnet ffs ■■?I think you’ve got me very wrong there (and probably CF too)!
Ramone seems to have missed the point that the topic is all about ‘UK’ manufacturing content.He also seems to have missed the point that there is no rule that says every US based engine is/was the biggest.When as far as I know ironically it’s now Scania who now make the only big V8 for example in a horespower and capacity arms race with Volvo,with most US options being in the 13-15 litre 6 cylinder range.Just as in the case of the Detroit 60 sereies and N14 before.
While in this case for us it would be more like re opening the ■■■■■■■ UK Shotts plant and turning out an alternative fuelled ( LPG ) version of the N14 for example among others like the Westport range,thereby circumventing all the emissions problems that are crippling modern diesels and annoying the rule makers.Together with our own Fuller transmission plant making our own 18 speed version of the I shift and a manual option with switchable auto rev matching.Thereby getting ahead where it matters in terms of reliable technology,not an arms race with the Scandinavians stuck with dirty obsolete diesel.
gingerfold:
I don’t want to be too pedantic Robert, but the driveline you so admire was built in the UK, albeit American component designs and US owned subsidiaries.
Well yes, I do appreciate that, Graham. Though ERF’s NTC 335s came from USA, I understand! Robert
My recollection of the Fuller SAMT was that it didn’t work very well. It was 5th gear it got stuck in wasn’t it? However it was the first attempt at automating gearchanges.
gingerfold:
I don’t want to be too pedantic Robert, but the driveline you so admire was built in the UK, albeit American component designs and US owned subsidiaries.
The point being that our ‘subsidiary’ relationship with US owned operations usually resulted in far more domestic autonomy and involvement in the manufacturing process,from forge to finished product.Than the dumbed down purely ‘assembly’ operations of our subsidiary relationship with other foreign manufacturing operations.I’d guess the aim in this case would be to try to take that autonomy a stage further in the form of just licenced and franchised use of the brand and the base technology and component design rather than actual US ownership.In which case I’d guess that as I said the Trump regime might be a game changer in that regard in the US no longer seeing us as second choice to Germany etc.
cav551:
My recollection of the Fuller SAMT was that it didn’t work very well. It was 5th gear it got stuck in wasn’t it? However it was the first attempt at automating gearchanges.
Which would leave the question what has the I shift got right which the SAMT got wrong ?.It shouldn’t be rocket science to sort out the difference in the two systems.In this case we could probably take state of the art modern control systems for granted but for us it would be an I shift based on the 18 speed together with an updated auto rev match facility manual option,which would get us ahead of the Swedes.
cav551:
My recollection of the Fuller SAMT was that it didn’t work very well. It was 5th gear it got stuck in wasn’t it? However it was the first attempt at automating gearchanges.
SAMT was an automated Eaton Twin-splitter and a lot of people had them converted back to manual! Glad I never used one. Robert
robert1952:
cav551:
My recollection of the Fuller SAMT was that it didn’t work very well. It was 5th gear it got stuck in wasn’t it? However it was the first attempt at automating gearchanges.SAMT was an automated Eaton Twin-splitter and a lot of people had them converted back to manual! Glad I never used one. Robert
That probably explains it.An attempt to fix something that wasn’t broke in the form of the 13 speed road ranger.Then to add insult to injury try to automate the thing with first generation control technology,when it was already often known to leave a driver with a box full of neutrals even as a manual. 
You devil gents this is most interesting, no b sh**e. What goes round comes round, could the Euro boys soon be as we were, thinking they dominate n are untouchable, we know the out come of that mind set. Dig n Newmercman n numerous others say reliability comes before mpg. Emissions prevent a new range of British motors taking Euro on but Trumps (non political C) USA seems to be anti /denial global warming. Is this a golden opportunity for LARF,A lorry tariff war is possible we sell none to Euro they sell most if not all to us which might soon become too pricey because of it. LARF make a RELIABLE motor for Britain n could well work in no emission regs USA ?
coomsey:
You devil gents this is most interesting, no b sh**e. What goes round comes round, could the Euro boys soon be as we were, thinking they dominate n are untouchable, we know the out come of that mind set. Dig n Newmercman n numerous others say reliability comes before mpg. Emissions prevent a new range of British motors taking Euro on but Trumps (non political C) USA seems to be anti /denial global warming. Is this a golden opportunity for LARF,A lorry tariff war is possible we sell none to Euro they sell most if not all to us which might soon become too pricey because of it. LARF make a RELIABLE motor for Britain n could well work in no emission regs USA ?
It would be fair to say that the fortunes of the Euros are highly dependent on the regulatory type approval environment which seems to have been written to suit them best and which,together with other trade policies,cut the old links between us and the rest of the English speaking world.
While the whole emissions issue becomes moot given a large scale switch to alternative fuels.Which could then leave us in the best case situation,of vehicles designed to use a cleaner, already cheaper,more plentiful,fossil based fuel,in an environment where consumption of it is no longer seen as an issue with even further room for price/taxation cuts.With the Euros being lumbered with engine designs specifically designed for and therefore dependent on use of what is increasingly being seen as an increasingly obsolete dirty fuel.
With us back in the position of being able to get back to making ( ideally alternatively fuelled and therefore cleaner ) ■■■■■■■ powered trucks with US based drivelines.It’s not difficult to see how a scenario,in which EU type approval no longer applies to UK registered and made vehicles,let alone an environment in which we use our own legislation to phase out diesel fuelled engines in favour of alternative fuels.Could reverse the situation of Euro ■■■■■■■■■■ of the domestic UK truck market and its supply.