I was told that at some point one of the runs goes like…
From the Depot in North Lanarkshire you get taken to Lockerbie by one of the drivers that live there. Then you drive to the hub via a different route as the jump jockey boys go.
You then return to Lockerbie and someone takes you back to depot.
Why this way ? Because although its the same run as the jump jockey but you have a de tour to Wales.
That’s at least another couple of hours onto the shift but they will be part of your daily rest. Luvly jubly.
This is wrong on so many levels…always wanted to say that LOL
Is that for operation needs so they do not get to the hub at the same time? - if not then this could be done with 3 drivers …
Both trunks leave at same time with 2 drivers in trunk 1 and 1 driver in trunk 2
They pull in after every 2 hours of driving for a couple of mins and do a swap around
That way no driver gets left waiting outside a truck and a max of 4 hours driving gets done at any one time by any driver
The same 3 drivers doing the same run could then rotate who gets to do what section each day
I like doing examples so I am going to have a hub that is 6 hours driving time from base and needs 2 trucks to get there and back in one 13 hour shift using 3 drivers
There are drivers A B & C - the one not actually driving can be the passenger using digicard in slot 2 in either vehicle
Both trucks pull in for 2 mins after every 2 hours of driving
A starts at 0530 to check out both vehicles
B & C start at 0600
Driving starts at 0600 with A on break/poa
0600 - 0800 B & C each get 2 hours driving with A on 2 hours break/poa
0800 - 1000 A & C each get 2 hours driving with B on 2 hours break/poa
1000 - 1200 A & B each get 2 hours driving with C on 2 hours break/poa
1200 - 1230 at hub - all drivers recording other work
1230 - 1430 B & C each get 2 hours driving with A on 2 hours break/poa
1430 - 1630 A & C each get 2 hours driving with B on 2 hours break/poa
1630 - 1830 A & B each get 2 hours driving with C on 2 hours break/poa
1830 - A finishes as now back at base
1830 - 1900 B & C do end of shift stuff
24 hours of total driving time with each driver doing 8 hours driving and no driver doing more than 4 hours at any one time
Total RTD for each driver in that 13 hour shift is 9 hours
OK, its a pie-in-the-sky example but I think its workable in similar cases
Like most theories, they are just that “Theories”.
Trucking is not the “a ideal world” as their are so many outside influences.
So theory doesn’t work as 2 days are never the same.
The point that keeps coming up yet NOBODY is shouting from the rooftops about it. And that is the cards are only used when driving. They are NOT recording anything else.
When I am sitting in the passenger seat I have my card in my pocket but it should be in slot 2 recording POA. When its my turn to drive the machine asks Have you been on break/rest ? (or words similar) and I PUT YES.
The machine then records this, it records that I have been on break since I (stopped driving) ejected my card.
explorer1234:
Like most theories, they are just that “Theories”.
Trucking is not the “a ideal world” as their are so many outside influences.
So theory doesn’t work as 2 days are never the same.
The point that keeps coming up yet NOBODY is shouting from the rooftops about it. And that is the cards are only used when driving. They are NOT recording anything else.
When I am sitting in the passenger seat I have my card in my pocket but it should be in slot 2 recording POA. When its my turn to drive the machine asks Have you been on break/rest ? (or words similar) and I PUT YES.
The machine then records this, it records that I have been on break since I (stopped driving) ejected my card.
This has to be Wrong…
When you insert your card you have the option to do a manual entry and can select whatever activity you’ve been doing whether it be other work, driving, break/rest or POA.
When doing a manual entry you can also manually input several consecutive different activities for the time the card was out of the tachograph.
The company do not want you to use any other than break mode
Its recording about 8 hours of driving and everything else as rest…
Which in turn says I am doing a 8 hours shift when in fact I started at 17.30 and finished at 09.15 the following day. This is almost double.
We did get held up at the Hub for a hour but that as I said before, screws up the theory of Driving for a living.
tachograph:
As far as I can see the OP was double manning with one or other of the other drivers throughout the run and should have been recording his activities on his driver card, to be honest I’m struggling to understand what the benefit of not using the driver card was, he wouldn’t have notched up any more working hours because the time would have been POA and as far as I can see he would have still had his legally required breaks.
As you know, for it to qualify as multi maning (see regs definitions) the presence of another driver is “compulsory”. Thats not happening in the OP’s situation, sometimes a driver is on his own, sometimes he is not. If you where to as you say insert your card in slot two, then you’ll end up with a card that would show driving and no breaks, it would also show two different vehicles. Lets say he’s pulled enroute, on his tod, on the return leg ? Hows he gonna explain his POA counts as…? Tell them he’s multi manning, and the other drivers are in another truck?
explorer1234:
The company do not want you to use any other than break mode
Its recording about 8 hours of driving and everything else as rest…
Which in turn says I am doing a 8 hours shift when in fact I started at 17.30 and finished at 09.15 the following day. This is almost double.
We did get held up at the Hub for a hour but that as I said before, screws up the theory of Driving for a living.
How are you being paid - from the start to finish time or only on the driving + other work time?
explorer1234:
The company do not want you to use any other than break mode
Its recording about 8 hours of driving and everything else as rest…
Which in turn says I am doing a 8 hours shift when in fact I started at 17.30 and finished at 09.15 the following day. This is almost double.
We did get held up at the Hub for a hour but that as I said before, screws up the theory of Driving for a living.
How are you being paid - from the start to finish time or only on the driving + other work time?
makes no difference does it ROG its still 15 3/4 hours and as its not classed as multi manning its illegal which was my point to start with
This is fine at the interview as the job is painted in beautiful colours but in reality they want their pound of flesh, which means the job bears no reflection to what is being told at interview. Pure and simple
These kind of jobs, when every penny is a prisoner are always it seems to be 70 plus hours and workout at about £6.50 per hour. They say Your sitting in the cab for half the shift… Which is just Pish…
nick2008:
makes no difference does it ROG its still 15 3/4 hours and as its not classed as multi manning its illegal which was my point to start with
I had missed the overall shift time (daily rest in 24 hours)
Perhaps it needs explaining to the boss that to be legally under MM rules no driver can be on their own in a truck after the first hour
That would be impossible with 3 drivers and 2 trucks
nick2008:
makes no difference does it ROG its still 15 3/4 hours and as its not classed as multi manning its illegal which was my point to start with
I had missed the overall shift time (daily rest in 24 hours)
Perhaps it needs explaining to the boss that to be legally under MM rules no driver can be on their own in a truck after the first hour
That would be impossible with 3 drivers and 2 trucks
that’s my whole point and why I only ever did 2 shifts like it ( was a Parcel company )
I keep finding that there so many companies and drivers especially interpreting ONE SET of rules for their own means. The blame lies with these people me included and the Governing bodies. If and it’s a big “if” these rules were more constant and less liable for misinterpretation we would have one less thing to worry about. And one less thing for VOSA to shaft our ignorance with. As they say… The first rule of Law is IGNORANCE IS NO EXCUSE.
My point is Ignorance is endemic and if all things are clear the No Excuse would be extinct.
tachograph:
As far as I can see the OP was double manning with one or other of the other drivers throughout the run and should have been recording his activities on his driver card, to be honest I’m struggling to understand what the benefit of not using the driver card was, he wouldn’t have notched up any more working hours because the time would have been POA and as far as I can see he would have still had his legally required breaks.
As you know, for it to qualify as multi maning (see regs definitions) the presence of another driver is “compulsory”. Thats not happening in the OP’s situation, sometimes a driver is on his own, sometimes he is not. If you where to as you say insert your card in slot two, then you’ll end up with a card that would show driving and no breaks, it would also show two different vehicles. Lets say he’s pulled enroute, on his tod, on the return leg ? Hows he gonna explain his POA counts as…? Tell them he’s multi manning, and the other drivers are in another truck?
He may not have been multi-manning in such a way that he could take advantage of the the daily rest concession, but there was always 2 drivers in the vehicle who were able to share the driving when he was in the passenger seat so 45 minutes of his POA would count as break.
The EU guidance not number 2 (third paragraph from the bottom) shows that there only has to be 2 drivers in the vehicle to help with the driving for 45 minutes of the POA to count as break, they don’t have to be multi-manning as defined in article 4 of (EC) 561/2006.
Anyway it’s probably not so relevant now, as it transpires the OPs shift was over 15 hours so whether or not his card should have been in the tachograph is probably not as important as the fact that he legally had insufficient daily rest and seems to have been expected to book the travelling time from Southwait to base as part of his daily rest.
No offence intended explorer1234 but we may have been having a totally different discussion if this had been mentioned in the first post
explorer1234:
I started at 17.30 and finished at 09.15 the following day
nick2008:
I reckon it should be a requirement to use both card slots to record regardless.
just my opinion that way everything is all above board and out of any suspicion from vosa or any other authority
I agree, unless I was doing some work whilst in the passenger seat (not sue what that would be ) that’s exactly what I would do, I just can’t see any reason not to use slot 2 other than to avoid anyone knowing your real start or finish times.
In my defence I was more concerned about registering lack of registering Other Work, POA and Breaks to overly concerned about shift length,
That said…with the 15 hour + their was no way I would have stuck this job, monetary I wouldn’t look at it for less than 30K+.
My health is more important so it takes precedent over everything else.
explorer1234:
Sorry for Not putting Start and Finish times in…
In my defence I was more concerned about registering lack of registering Other Work, POA and Breaks to overly concerned about shift length,
That said…with the 15 hour + their was no way I would have stuck this job, monetary I wouldn’t look at it for less than 30K+.
My health is more important so it takes precedent over everything else.
No worries mate, it sounds like a bit of a dodgy firm to work for in my opinion
I am bloody fuming…
Went over to collect the £100 I was asked to collect and the guy was on day off… To top it off in a small sealed brown envelope was £80.
Now I don’t know who these guys think they are but £20 and 2 hour round trip (fuel) etc …They are not on.
ANY ADVICE WOULD BE MORE THAN WELCOME.
£24,OOO DIVIDE BY 52 WEEKS = £461.54 DIVIDED BY 5 = £92.31
I hope they have declared this to H M Tax Office.
They will have to issue a P45.
As I will be speaking to H.M. Tax Office, East Kilbride.
(daily rest in 24 hours)
) that’s exactly what I would do, I just can’t see any reason not to use slot 2 other than to avoid anyone knowing your real start or finish times.