Well,at least my post got a full “forensic” response from my learned friend “george” and while I fully understand,and appreciate, the crispness of his analysis unfortunately everything,at least in the haulage world,is never what it appears and the full facts of any “Good deal” are never fully disclosed.However,I do agree that it isn’t always down to “Luck”,and then again it isn’t down to a particular budding owner Driver saying " This is how my fledgling,one vehicle, business is going to proceed over the next x amount of years through to me selling out for mega Bucks" and as for Eastern European property speculation,well that just about sums up the “chancer” at the helm of ESL ! say no more “george”,I hope you declined a cuppa from those Russian gentlemen you were with in the Gherkin ■■ Cheers Dennis.
georgeking:
Bewick:
I fully accept that you have an “in built criticism” of all things H.& M. E. & J.I.,but nothing was ever as it appeared,and of course,it’s easy looking back with 20/20 vision.H & ME Fearon had a brilliant business model in the 70’s, however it was not a good one for the 80’s or 90’s, he should have sold out at the top. John Irving copied the same 70’s based model and tried to apply it to the 90’s he went bust!
Bewick:
Yes,it’s easy to pick out the outstanding success stories as you are adept at doing “george”,after the “success” has been achieved but as a typical accountant you are probably not able to predict,with 100% certainty,what direction a fledgling operation should take,other than to advise against “any direction”,as per a number of practising accountants I was involved with over the years !!Accountants tend to look back and not forwards, however any fledgling business needs to find a good one and follow their advice (I am sure that you had a very good accountant). Most Accountants could not run a business but they can see issues that an owner/manager can’t.
Alas I also study failures let’s look at some
- Barnett & Graham Ltd they were offered a lot of money to sell out by Young Group/ Hargreaves in the 90’s they declined the offer and ended up going bust as well.
- T Brady maybe they could have sold out to someone like the TDG years earlier they went bust.
- Edward Stobart if he had sold out a few years earlier then he did he could have got £20m+ we all know he ended up bankrupt.
- J & W Watt could have sold out but chose not to.
Periodically there are companies like Bunzl, Securicor, Wincanton that pay silly money for transport companies, my advice take their money and run! Haulage is a very cyclical industry, the smart people realise this and get out at the top of the cycle e.g. Glyn Davies.
Bewick:
The other major piece in the jigsaw is being in the right place at the right time ! Success within the haulage business years ago,IMO,was a combination of the aforementioned,hands on management,driver and vehicle choice,decent customers and cashflow and adhereing to the legislation.However,if the traffic dried up for no fault of the haulier it wasn’t always easy to “go round the corner” and start again,well not in areas such as W. ■■■■■■■ or indeed any sparsley industrialised area.Oh yes there is a luck element involved, I mentioned above getting out at the right time when someone make you a crazy offer!
OK why is Andrew Tinkler running a huge transport organisation and I am sat here writing this (as indeed you are), well Andrew took huge risks that paid off. For example many years ago I visited Eastern Europe and realised that the property was cheap on those countries, I did nothing about it. Andrew also realised it was cheap he borrowed money from the banks and bought property in those countries, when selling out he doubled his money and used his profits to buy Eddie Stobart the rest is history and good luck to him I admire what he has achieved. He took a risk I was scared to take.Bewick:
Just my opinion to counter the 20/20 visionaries,and I believe I can speak from years of experience albeit from nearly 20 years ago and no doubt there will be conflicting opinion,so what, let the argument will continue !! Cheers Bewick.Alas I have been involved with 100’s of organisation’s ranging from SME’s, large multinational US Companies, some of the top hedge funds, billionaires private offices, the NHS and Local Government, I can only speak from experience. My advice learn from the mistakes of the failures and study what made the successful ones successful.
What has made John Miller, WH Holmes, Glyn Davies brilliantly successful whilst others have failed? it is not all down to luck Dennis
Exactly right georgeking. In the Haulage World, you have to keep changing, fast, otherwise you’ll end up like that list, bust.
And your right about Andrew Tinkler. He definatly turned ESL around and if he hadn’t, it too would have ended up on that list.
Kindest regards
CG
.
.
georgeking:
■■■■■■■■ gill:
georgeking:
Bewick:
I fully accept that you have an “in built criticism” of all things H.& M. E. & J.I.,but nothing was ever as it appeared,and of course,it’s easy looking back with 20/20 vision.H & ME Fearon had a brilliant business model in the 70’s, however it was not a good one for the 80’s or 90’s, he should have sold out at the top. John Irving copied the same 70’s based model and tried to apply it to the 90’s he went bust!
Bewick:
Yes,it’s easy to pick out the outstanding success stories as you are adept at doing “george”,after the “success” has been achieved but as a typical accountant you are probably not able to predict,with 100% certainty,what direction a fledgling operation should take,other than to advise against “any direction”,as per a number of practising accountants I was involved with over the years !!Accountants tend to look back and not forwards, however any fledgling business needs to find a good one and follow their advice (I am sure that you had a very good accountant). Most Accountants could not run a business but they can see issues that an owner/manager can’t.
Alas I also study failures let’s look at some
- Barnett & Graham Ltd they were offered a lot of money to sell out by Young Group/ Hargreaves in the 90’s they declined the offer and ended up going bust as well.
- T Brady maybe they could have sold out to someone like the TDG years earlier they went bust.
- Edward Stobart if he had sold out a few years earlier then he did he could have got £20m+ we all know he ended up bankrupt.
- J & W Watt could have sold out but chose not to.
Periodically there are companies like Bunzl, Securicor, Wincanton that pay silly money for transport companies, my advice take their money and run! Haulage is a very cyclical industry, the smart people realise this and get out at the top of the cycle e.g. Glyn Davies.
Bewick:
The other major piece in the jigsaw is being in the right place at the right time ! Success within the haulage business years ago,IMO,was a combination of the aforementioned,hands on management,driver and vehicle choice,decent customers and cashflow and adhereing to the legislation.However,if the traffic dried up for no fault of the haulier it wasn’t always easy to “go round the corner” and start again,well not in areas such as W. ■■■■■■■ or indeed any sparsley industrialised area.Oh yes there is a luck element involved, I mentioned above getting out at the right time when someone make you a crazy offer!
OK why is Andrew Tinkler running a huge transport organisation and I am sat here writing this (as indeed you are), well Andrew took huge risks that paid off. For example many years ago I visited Eastern Europe and realised that the property was cheap on those countries, I did nothing about it. Andrew also realised it was cheap he borrowed money from the banks and bought property in those countries, when selling out he doubled his money and used his profits to buy Eddie Stobart the rest is history and good luck to him I admire what he has achieved. He took a risk I was scared to take.Bewick:
Just my opinion to counter the 20/20 visionaries,and I believe I can speak from years of experience albeit from nearly 20 years ago and no doubt there will be conflicting opinion,so what, let the argument will continue !! Cheers Bewick.Alas I have been involved with 100’s of organisation’s ranging from SME’s, large multinational US Companies, some of the top hedge funds, billionaires private offices, the NHS and Local Government, I can only speak from experience. My advice learn from the mistakes of the failures and study what made the successful ones successful.
What has made John Miller, WH Holmes, Glyn Davies brilliantly successful whilst others have failed? it is not all down to luck Dennis
Exactly right georgeking. In the Haulage World, you have to keep changing, fast, otherwise you’ll end up like that list, bust.
And your right about Andrew Tinkler. He defiantly turned ESL around and if he hadn’t, it too would have ended up on that list.
Kindest regards
CGYou’ll need your own team of advisers, the accountants, the business consultants, the transport managers, which ever business model you chose is up to you and them, we can only guide you on here, however don’t disrespect the advice given to you by Dennis, me and the others on here. However I emphasize look at the business models of the Stobarts, Bewicks, John Miller, Barkers of Lindale, Duncan Hill, Tyson Burridge, Curries etc, then form your own opinion.
Many years ago I was involved with some of the most successful scrap metal merchants in the country (not EMR) mainly based in the South East and Teeside whilst they were all “scrap metal merchants” each had a totally different business model, there was no right one or indeed no wrong one.
Now as a starter you should be seeking a job in a transport office to learn the ropes.
Hello georgeking
Thankyou for your advise marra. I will have a look at the business models of the companys you’ve listed
Out of all the companys george, which one should I look more closely at than the others or are they all important to look at closely?
Kindest regards
CG
.
.
georgeking:
■■■■■■■■ gill:
Hello georgeking
Thankyou for your advise marra. I will have a look at the business models of the companys you’ve listed
Out of all the companys george, which one should I look more closely at than the others or are they all important to look at closely?
Kindest regards
CGI like John Miller, because the man that set it up with one lorry still runs it, the business is very successful, yet very simple.
Thankyou george, I’ll have a close look at there business model
Kindest regards
CG
Hello
I found this photo on transportphotos.com
Copyright of transportphotos.com
Kindest regards
CG
.
georgeking:
■■■■■■■■ gill:
Hello
I found this photo on transportphotos.com
Copyright of transportphotos.com
Kindest regards
CGThis is not a former H & ME Fearon lorry, he must have bought it second hand.
Hello george
Thankyou for that. I’m now wondering if he bought it as a show truck like the Morris Commercial he’s son, Stevens, got now.
Kindest regards
CG
robroy:
■■■■■■■■ gill:
Hello
I think this wagon was new to O’Neils at Aspatria??
Regards
■■■■■■■■ GillDriven by Eddie Bosward I think.
my old man got it new wid jim o,neil an went with it to john irvings when squeak jacked in ,
bubbleman:
Hi lads,heres one I found.
Cheers Bubbs,
my old fella , retired to the golf course in 99
The Brian from wigton who drove for John Irving’s would be Brian Riddick who lived on the front of Skiddaw view early 80s iirc
When and why did James “Squeak” O’Neill stop operating was it retirement/ill health or did he sell out ? I recall he had a mate from Milnthorpe, the late Ted Johnston. who drove for Henry Cooke the local Paper Mill and I believe that the two of them were acquainted via the digs at Falfield on the A38 which was before Squeak got onto tankers and he was running loads of 45 gal drums for refurb back and forth to Bristol from Marchon at Whitehaven. I know in later years he used to occasionally come down for the weekend to Teds and apparently they used to visit one or two Clubs and Pubs for a right ■■■■ up ! Cheers Bewick.