adam277:
That’s some good news.
Good for who exactly.You mean the winners who now get access to all the surplus fossil fuel supplies at our expense of an inevitable nuclear disaster and burnt trees for biomass and dead sterile fields covered in solar panels.
bigstraight6:
lancpudn:
Peugeot want to go ‘Combustion-Free’ by 2023 nowICE vehicles are starting to fall off the cliff way before the 2030 deadline it seems.
Peugeot petrol/diesel engines and indeed their vehicles from the last decade have something of a reputation in the trade of being utter rubbish, maybe they will have more success with EV but I doubt it.
With the exception of Facel Vega and Bugatti French cars were always an absolute joke.They were rightly commercial suicide in the trade.
It’s obvious that a 3.5t van using most/all of the payload capacity for the batteries is the default option for a practical EV.The Sprinter is the obvious quality choice.
Dacia about to launch a new small EV, in France first, much cheaper than anything else available, should be a game changer assuming people are convinced they’ll be able to charge up at home which isn’t going to be easy for many working class town dwellers.
An EV actually makes perfect sense for me; firstly it’s about time I grew up and ditched the tail happy 3.2 litre V6, and secondly I do less than 40 miles a week most weeks.
If I could get one at a real world price I’d seriously consider it.
fodenway:
I remember a certain Mr. Sinclair once telling us that this was the future…
I once done my daily commute on the A13/M25 on this bike. That seems like a step up.
Juddian:
Dacia about to launch a new small EV, in France first, much cheaper than anything else available, should be a game changer assuming people are convinced they’ll be able to charge up at home which isn’t going to be easy for many working class town dwellers.
Until the realisation dawns that they have to pay 16p per kwh + road fuel duty + 20% VAT + batteries to fuel the death trap all at the risk of a Chernobyl type event.
the maoster:
An EV actually makes perfect sense for me; firstly it’s about time I grew up and ditched the tail happy 3.2 litre V6, and secondly I do less than 40 miles a week most weeks.If I could get one at a real world price I’d seriously consider it.
I’d guess a 3.5t 1-2,000 hp rwd Merc Sprinter EV is going to need some good throttle control whether negotiating roundabouts on the way to the supermarket or hairpin bends in the Alps. 
Juddian:
Dacia about to launch a new small EV, in France first, much cheaper than anything else available, should be a game changer assuming people are convinced they’ll be able to charge up at home which isn’t going to be easy for many working class town dwellers.
Working class town dwellers are not in the equation, we will be priced off the road and onto public transport leaving the freedom of personal mobility to the middle class and well off, it’s not progress it’s going backwards.
More trouble at mill for Jaguar! Are we going to see the UK auto manufacturing fall even further behind because of chronic under investment in NEV (new energy vehicles) suppliers?
Jaguar are going full electric by 2025 but with no signs of early battery supplies on the horizon, They need to look further afield.
“The UK lacks the cell and pack factories automakers will need to support their transition away from the internal combustion engine. In what could be a fresh blow to British carmaking, the country’s top auto manufacturer, Jaguar Land Rover, is in talks with Northvolt and SVolt Energy Technology about supplying batteries for a range of EVs it may assemble in Slovakia, according to people familiar with the matter.
Unless battery investment picks up, carmakers may only accelerate their exodus from what was once the world’s second-biggest auto manufacturing base. The last few years, the UK fell outside the top 15.” vnexplorer.net/uks-automotiv…-s1672035.html
Anyone else get the feeling the new utopia they think they have timed to perfection isn’t actually going to go according to plan.
All very well upping production of EV’s but where are the peasants supposed to charge them, without taking into account there simply won’t be enough power, unless they’re going to burn the fossil fuel saved by banning ICE cars to make the electricity to power their replacements, oh wait…
I’ve had the sneaky feeling that whilst LR products will continue to be made, well LR at elast, that both Solihull and Castle Bromwich plants arn’t in the long term plans of Tata and possibly never were.
The land involved at both sites is worth an absolute fortune for housing or even airport expansion at Solihull, and as we keep being told how simple electric vehicles are, having only a handful of moving parts in the drivetrain, they can be made a hell of a lot cheaper elsewhere, in countries maybe that haven’t been sold to Blofeld and the Davos set.
All moot because JLR as a brand is arguably irrelevant without a committment to ongoing ICE powered. vehicles.The rules don’t say EV only as opposed to hydrogen fuelled ICE.
While luxury van conversions will be the default choice to minimise all the battery capacity downsides of EVs while best meeting the demands of the luxury SUV market.
Which leaves the question of the economic viability of a 50p per kWh + road fuel duty and 20% VAT fuel source in the general car market.
Even allowing for 60% fuel efficiency advantage of EVs when a litre of petrol contains around 10kwh.
Bearing in mind the predictable compulsory smart metering of even home charging obviously to cater for taxation purposes.
Juddian:
Anyone else get the feeling the new utopia they think they have timed to perfection isn’t actually going to go according to plan.
All very well upping production of EV’s but where are the peasants supposed to charge them, without taking into account there simply won’t be enough power, unless they’re going to burn the fossil fuel saved by banning ICE cars to make the electricity to power their replacements, oh wait…I’ve had the sneaky feeling that whilst LR products will continue to be made, well LR at elast, that both Solihull and Castle Bromwich plants arn’t in the long term plans of Tata and possibly never were.
The land involved at both sites is worth an absolute fortune for housing or even airport expansion at Solihull, and as we keep being told how simple electric vehicles are, having only a handful of moving parts in the drivetrain, they can be made a hell of a lot cheaper elsewhere, in countries maybe that haven’t been sold to Blofeld and the Davos set.
Yes things aren’t going to plan, There have been some speed bumps put in the way by the automakers lobbyist in Brussels over the proposed stricter emission limit of 70% before 2030, They’ve voted to keep it at the original 55% limit for the Euro cat 7 standard.
“While a more ambitious goal of a 70% cut in car emissions by 2030 was tabled by Dutch Renew Europe MEP Jan Huitema, what was finally agreed mirrored the Commission’s proposed emissions reduction target of 55%.”
“Broadly speaking, Green MEPs want the internal combustion engine to be consigned to the dustbin of history as soon as possible, while conservative lawmakers see the possibility to extend the technology with a switch to cleaner fuel.”
Looks like E-fuels lost the vote.
“The conservative EPP and ECR groups had pushed for a 90% cut in vehicle emissions by 2035, but the committee backed the full 100%. The committee also voted against a provision enabling the use of e-fuels, which fuel makers tout as a means to cleanly maintain internal combustion engine vehicles.”
The final Euro Cat 7 standard verdict is expected in July.
They’re not concerned where the Hoi Polloi will charge their EV’s they want us out of private cars & onto public transport or active travel, Cities in the EU are aiming to reduce car use just like the UK transport-network.co.uk/200 … ling/17703 Greater Manchester reiterated last week that they want 95% of journeys into Manchester on public transport or active travel .
lancpudn:
Juddian:
Anyone else get the feeling the new utopia they think they have timed to perfection isn’t actually going to go according to plan.
All very well upping production of EV’s but where are the peasants supposed to charge them, without taking into account there simply won’t be enough power, unless they’re going to burn the fossil fuel saved by banning ICE cars to make the electricity to power their replacements, oh wait…I’ve had the sneaky feeling that whilst LR products will continue to be made, well LR at elast, that both Solihull and Castle Bromwich plants arn’t in the long term plans of Tata and possibly never were.
The land involved at both sites is worth an absolute fortune for housing or even airport expansion at Solihull, and as we keep being told how simple electric vehicles are, having only a handful of moving parts in the drivetrain, they can be made a hell of a lot cheaper elsewhere, in countries maybe that haven’t been sold to Blofeld and the Davos set.
Yes things aren’t going to plan, There have been some speed bumps put in the way by the automakers lobbyist in Brussels over the proposed stricter emission limit of 70% before 2030, They’ve voted to keep it at the original 55% limit for the Euro cat 7 standard.
“While a more ambitious goal of a 70% cut in car emissions by 2030 was tabled by Dutch Renew Europe MEP Jan Huitema, what was finally agreed mirrored the Commission’s proposed emissions reduction target of 55%.”
“Broadly speaking, Green MEPs want the internal combustion engine to be consigned to the dustbin of history as soon as possible, while conservative lawmakers see the possibility to extend the technology with a switch to cleaner fuel.”
Looks like E-fuels lost the vote.
“The conservative EPP and ECR groups had pushed for a 90% cut in vehicle emissions by 2035, but the committee backed the full 100%. The committee also voted against a provision enabling the use of e-fuels, which fuel makers tout as a means to cleanly maintain internal combustion engine vehicles.”The final Euro Cat 7 standard verdict is expected in July.
They’re not concerned where the Hoi Polloi will charge their EV’s they want us out of private cars & onto public transport or active travel, Cities in the EU are aiming to reduce car use just like the UK transport-network.co.uk/200 … ling/17703 Greater Manchester reiterated last week that they want 95% of journeys into Manchester on public transport or active travel
You mean the vociferous green minority pushing an anything but green nuke fuelled agenda and the same Europe that is nicking our fossil fuel resources and importing as much as it can get to replace Russian imports.
What does Manchester’s luddite compulsory walking and cycling and public transport agenda have to do with JLR’s committing commercial suicide by removing the choice of ICE for its customers.
No one buys a 5.0 litre V8 or even an EV Range Rover to get around in Manchester and no one has to travel to or live in such cities under the rule of their despotic City Republic rulers.
Also suggest you look at the queues of traffic at Dover waiting for channel ferries obviously preferring a foreign motoring holiday than to go anywhere, let alone zb hole Manchester, by bicycle and train.If anything a choice which is growing.
To which the anything but green eco nutters answer is to shout louder about imposing their unwanted nuke and tree fuelled utopia on the majority who aren’t listening to their zb.
We need to consign this, obviously agenda 30 driven scam, which by definition implies forced relocation into cities, to the dustbin. Not proper engines and cars and our freedom to use them and by implication the freedom not to be ruled by what crap hole London or Manchester says and does.
Carryfast:
All moot because JLR as a brand is arguably irrelevant without a committment to ongoing ICE powered. vehicles.The rules don’t say EV only as opposed to hydrogen fuelled ICE.
While luxury van conversions will be the default choice to minimise all the battery capacity downsides of EVs while best meeting the demands of the luxury SUV market.
Which leaves the question of the economic viability of a 50p per kWh + road fuel duty and 20% VAT fuel source in the general car market.
Even allowing for 60% fuel efficiency advantage of EVs when a litre of petrol contains around 10kwh.
Bearing in mind the predictable compulsory smart metering of even home charging obviously to cater for taxation purposes.
“They want to end the free CO2 pass for heavier cars by removing the mass adjustment factor which is one of the principal reasons for the surging sales of highly-polluting SUVs.” One of the reasons carmakers like Bentley, Mercedes, BMW who have always traditionally make big heavy ICE vehicles announced that they’re going electric otherwise they might fall for even bigger fines come Euro 7.
If they remove that mass adjustment factor I should imagine the “Green tax” on ICE SUV’s etc will be exorbitant
lancpudn:
Carryfast:
All moot because JLR as a brand is arguably irrelevant without a committment to ongoing ICE powered. vehicles.The rules don’t say EV only as opposed to hydrogen fuelled ICE.
While luxury van conversions will be the default choice to minimise all the battery capacity downsides of EVs while best meeting the demands of the luxury SUV market.
Which leaves the question of the economic viability of a 50p per kWh + road fuel duty and 20% VAT fuel source in the general car market.
Even allowing for 60% fuel efficiency advantage of EVs when a litre of petrol contains around 10kwh.
Bearing in mind the predictable compulsory smart metering of even home charging obviously to cater for taxation purposes.“They want to end the free CO2 pass for heavier cars by removing the mass adjustment factor which is one of the principal reasons for the surging sales of highly-polluting SUVs.” One of the reasons carmakers like Bentley, Mercedes, BMW who have always traditionally make big heavy ICE vehicles announced that they’re going electric otherwise they might fall for even bigger fines come Euro 7.
If they remove that mass adjustment factor I should imagine the “Green tax” on ICE SUV’s etc will be exorbitant
The fact is none of this is about leaving fossil fuel in the ground.
Europe is clamouring to get its hands on as much fossil fuel as it can get because it knows that nuclear is lethal let alone unaffordable.
While it’s equally obvious that the anti ICE luddite agenda has nothing to do with fossil fuel use
As for BMW and JLR, as you’ve implied yourself, their business case ceases to exist without an ongoing ICE option.
All of which makes their future plans as EV manufacturers moot, when other manufacturers can do it as good and cheaper.
All moot at 50p per kWh + road fuel duty and 20% VAT.
These bs rules are just moving the goal posts to make a mockery of the 2030 cut off by stealth.Bearing in mind that there is nothing in the rules which say no alternative fuelled ICE powered vehicles allowed regardless.
No doubt the next part of this stinking agenda will predictably have to change to applying the cut off retrospectively.
Removing all ICE vehicles from the roads.
Because otherwise the used market becomes the default choice.Which is actually happening now to circumvent the imposed quotas being applied to new premium ICE sales.
After years of uncertainty about closure & job losses the Jaguar Land Rover Halewood plant is now being converted to build BEV’s electrek.co/2022/09/21/jaguar-l … -vehicles/
Good I guess. I dunno how Jaguar Land Rover struggle though. They sell very simple yet rugged Land rovers that can not cost that much to make yet charge a fortune for them and they seem to be hugely popular.
adam277:
They sell very simple yet rugged Land rovers
Not for a while they haven`t. The last of the simple Defenders came off the line in 2016 I think.
Franglais:
adam277:
They sell very simple yet rugged Land roversNot for a while they haven`t. The last of the simple Defenders came off the line in 2016 I think.
It couldn’t be made compliant with modern safety and emissions.
Ironically I started my career driving the old ‘Defender’ in fire fighting vehicle configuration.I liked the old 2.6 6 cylinder petrol best.
Now I’m driving the new Defender up to SVR spec it’s a fantastic thing to drive in that form.It handles and goes like a supercar and much better than it looks.
JLR will rightly have a mountain to climb in terms of customer resistance to an EV line up.
The Range Rover Sport SVR and new Defender SVR are about as good as it ( will ever ) gets.
Hopefully JLR will find a way to at least maintain an ICE SVR option in hydrogen fuelled form.
