At our place the full timers all have a mutually agreed start time with an hours flex either way, for instance I start at 06.00 so they can ask / tell me to start anywhere between 05.00 and 07.00 and the agency lads ( most of whome are regular ) are given a start time to suit the run they have.
I used to work for the same firm, and I know for a fact that they are reliant upon agency drivers, not just as a back-up plan, but reliant upon them just to get through their daily business. They need to keep the agencies and their drivers happy, just so they come back for more. They can’t get employed drivers for love nor money, they have to look-after, and attract agency drivers.
I’ve mentioned this many a time, but the red and green company are one of the few firms who treat agency drivers better than their own. Like said, their drivers are captive, but the agency men have to be lured into coming back, a big thing given that they practically rely on agency men for their day to day business. The manager probably thinks that you’re a captive employee, and you’ll just grin and bear it. He needs to keep the agencies really sweet, because they probably provide the bulk of his workforce, and any tiffs would cost him dearly, so that’s why the limpers get the best start times.
I was on a casual contract when I started, and asked the manager about going onto a full-time contract. He asked what shift I would like, and I replied “Monday to Friday”. He sucked air, and said that I can’t work Monday to Fridays, because they don’t have enough vehicles, and or enough work on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, so a Thursday to Monday shift was the only possibility. Yet, the agencies like The Logistics People are handing-out permanent Monday to Friday contracts like they’re going out of fashion. It’s a disgrace how agency men get priority over employees.
Agency men tended to get the best vehicles, and longest, most-cushy runs. Many a time I’d get my work for the day, and end-up with four inner-city multi-drops in a clapped-out rigid, when a Bulgarian agency driver behind me, with not a word of English and the ink on his licence still wet, would get a brand-new 16-plate and a three-and-a-half hour one hit. It was well-know that only the agency men got the long runs.
Many companies have allowed themselves far too dependant on agencies, to the point where many now find themselves trapped in a ■■■■ storm they can’t escape.
It’s a all too common theme… company needs to keep the trucks manned so bring in agency men, find the agency solution convenient so get carried away & start using it to minimise recruitment of full time staff, end up resorting to giving the agency men the cream to keep them coming, full timers then start getting ■■■■■■ off, they leave, more agency men are then required… Before you now it, you’ve got a situation where the jobs gone to the dogs, you can’t get drivers, your wagons are all battered & your shelling out a fortune every week in agency fees and hiring out subbies.
Pay hire wages? They could do, but only can’t afford it because they’re working for crap rates because it’s all they can justify for the quality of service they offer.
Just say no next time, is it any wonder this industry is like it is, this practice is happening where I am at the moment and will be told if decent shifts are given away to agency and I am on a short shift I will be off, and this is at a company that struggles to get and keep full time drivers, wouldn’t mind but it is a fairly decent firm to work at and wage apart from the agency practices.
This is where the driver shortage comes in, can’t get drivers because of their practices, full timers should tell them to stop but they won’t.
Crucial point is WHEN was you told about the change in start time,night before or on the day.
Night before you have to live with it,it is on the day your time starts when you got in and finishes accordingly,and still have live with it 
Berty:
I’ll crack on for now and see it how it goes…
That will be what they are banking on.
Not being funny here mate, but did you display to them as much dissatisfaction with the situation as much as you have on here?
If you had it may have been more productive 
I know Stobbys are a pack of wonkers, that goes without saying, but if you discussed it with them (instead of everybody else) who knows, they may have come to some compromise with you, or change their mind, …or at least it would make them think twice about ■■■■ ing you about in other situations in the future .
This is where a strong union is a Godsend. Where I work the full timers get to cherry pick the work, if they perceive that the agency fella has more lucrative work the full timers can get the job switched to their benefit. It also works in such a way that if I wanted to be really pedantic and got say a ten hour day and found out that an agency guy got a fifteen hour day then our agreement is that we could demand and get paid fifteen hours despite the fact we went home after ten!
I will say though that in fairness I’ve only ever come across that being triggered twice and that was only because a snotty planner was flexing his muscles, but was soon put back in his box.
robroy:
Berty:
I’ll crack on for now and see it how it goes…That will be what they are banking on.
Not being funny here mate, but did you display to them as much dissatisfaction with the situation as much as you have on here?
If you had it may have been more productiveI know Stobbys are a pack of wonkers, that goes without saying, but if you discussed it with them (instead of everybody else) who knows, they may have come to some compromise with you, or change their mind, …or at least it would make them think twice about [zb] ing you about in other situations in the future .
Firstly I didn’t start the op with the intent to express my displeasure with it although I wasn’t happy it was to ask if it was normal practice at other places… secondly I did say I wasn’t happy about it to them but with me only being there only a short period of time and with it happening to drivers that’s been there a lot longer I got the feeling they’ve heard it all before…
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Ok, but if it had been me I would have said ‘‘Yeh ok I’ll change start times, but make sure you plan me for max 11 hour days when I am on it, cos I certainly aint working to 1030 at night’’
It’s a pity there was not a few more firms like Maosters, people slate Unions on here, but the firms that have them have a better quaiity of life in the job.
robroy:
Ok, but if it had been me I would have said ‘‘Yeh ok I’ll change start times, but make sure you plan me for max 11 hour days when I am on it, cos I certainly aint working to 1030 at night’’
If I’ve read it right surely that should be the OP’s issue not being told to start a bit later. 
When I was doing general haulage for a while I didn’t moan about 3-5 am starts.But I did tell the guvnor to zb off when he moaned about me parking up for the night at around 3.30-5 pm.Because he wanted me to run up to the Midlands for multiple collections and then back into central London to deliver the stuff and get back to the yard in one shift for one example.
It’s a crap situation to be in, but I know what the red and green firm are like. I agree with rob, some firms took advantage of the benefits the agencies had to offer them, and in the process, disregarded their own employees. Now agencies are their lifeline, existence without them, impossible.
It’s a bit sad when you see so few green shirts in their trucks, but so many t-shirt, dirty yellow hi-vis wearing agency men.
Speaking of keeping trucks manned, I’m sure they’d love to keep the wheels rolling on every truck they have, 24/7. Making money every minute of the day. We’ve all heard horror stories about trampers having to spend a night in a hotel, so an agency man can pick-up his truck and use it for a night run. I heard from an ex-Maritime driver, that they’re trying to phase-out trampers, turning to a system that keeps a truck manned, and the wheels moving, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. If other companies follow suit, especially the unscrupulous ones, it will be easy pickings for agencies offering a constant stream of day and night men.
Rottweiler22:
I heard from an ex-Maritime driver, that they’re trying to phase-out trampers, turning to a system that keeps a truck manned, and the wheels moving, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. If other companies follow suit, especially the unscrupulous ones, it will be easy pickings for agencies offering a constant stream of day and night men.
If it’s swapping tramping for day and night trunking on the basis of 3 shifts of 8 hours 4 on 4 off that could arguably be an improvement in terms and conditions.
Although working a truck to the point of doubling or tripling its annual mileage could be counterproductive at resale time to the point of cancelling out much of the increased return on capital employed.
Carryfast:
Rottweiler22:
I heard from an ex-Maritime driver, that they’re trying to phase-out trampers, turning to a system that keeps a truck manned, and the wheels moving, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. If other companies follow suit, especially the unscrupulous ones, it will be easy pickings for agencies offering a constant stream of day and night men.If it’s swapping tramping for day and night trunking on the basis of 3 shifts of 8 hours 4 on 4 off that could arguably be an improvement in terms and conditions.
Although working a truck to the point of doubling or tripling its annual mileage could be counterproductive at resale time to the point of cancelling out much of the increased return on capital employed.
It won’t be 8 hr shifts on 4 on 4 off now will it as some weeks you’ll only be doing 24 hrs of work it’ll be 12 hour shifts.
bald bloke:
It won’t be 8 hr shifts on 4 on 4 off now will it as some weeks you’ll only be doing 24 hrs of work it’ll be 12 hour shifts.
Yes fair enough I should have said 3 shifts of 8 ‘or’ more likely 2 shifts of 12.So 12 hour shifts 4 on 4 off 48 hour week.What’s wrong with that and like 3 shifts of 8 hours 4 on 4 off,would work fine in the case of a 24/7 operation.
It’s all about your spine. You either have one or you don’t. We all have mouths to feed, but if you are going to bend over and have led lights pointing the way to your dirtbox like a runway, you deserve everything you get.
eagerbeaver:
It’s all about your spine. You either have one or you don’t. We all have mouths to feed, but if you are going to bend over and have led lights pointing the way to your dirtbox like a runway, you deserve everything you get.
How’s Downton treating you these days? 
Well mate. Usually 6 am start, Mon-Fri days, o/t if I want it (I don’t), own immaculate XF (quite a perk for a day man in my view), double time this coming Monday, security guy tickles my balls and doesn’t charge.
If your starting at 7.30am & are genuinely concerned about not finishing till 10.30pm as a day man, your in the wrong job imo. Total ■■■■■■■■.
rob22888:
If your starting at 7.30am & are genuinely concerned about not finishing till 10.30pm as a day man, your in the wrong job imo. Total ■■■■■■■■.
Obviously that’s why I wanna start at 5 so my latest possible finish would be 8… it’s not the 15 hour day that bothers me read the OP properly before commenting
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rob22888:
If your starting at 7.30am & are genuinely concerned about not finishing till 10.30pm as a day man, your in the wrong job imo. Total ■■■■■■■■.
Why is he in the wrong job exactly. 
If I was on days I would feel the same. Apart from a 15 hour day being too bloody long anyway , (days or tramping whatever anybody says), who tf wants to be rocking back up at home around 11 o clock at night anyway,… just to start again 9 hours later, .unless you are some kind of live to work type. There is more to life than driving a ■■■■ truck.
Looks like I’m in the wrong job by your summing up also then mate, problem is I wish you had told me some 30 odd years ago.