Is this long working day legal?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
81

Dieseldoforme:
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At a meeting with VOSA, quite some time ago, we were told by VOSA
(off the record) that they would “probably turn a blind eye” to someone
who overshot their Duty Time by “around 20 minutes” if the Driver was
getting back to his home base or a place of “better safety and security.”

However, "this perk should not be abused by any Driver and VOSA would
“look at the overall pattern of a Driver’s recent driving record.”

One reason given for this “20 minute allowance” was the “better quality of
Driver’s rest at home or off the highway in a truckstop.”

Interesting to note that VOSA declined to put any of the above in writing !

it’s not quite 20 minutes you were after!! but not far off…

The legislation shows the first hour as a £60.00 penalty, but VOSA examiners will
generally allow a 15 minute tolerance before notice issue. If, however a driver repeatedly
‘makes use’ of this 15 minutes then the examiner may still take action.

gov.uk/government/uploads/s … posits.pdf

82

FarnboroughBoy11:
Driving hours and duty time are part of the bloody theory test before you have even sat in a lorry let alone do any cpc modules!!!

Maybe OP hasn’t taken a theory test…I haven’t…passed Class 1 in 1991.
As I said…
We need more info. from OP. If he took/passed theory test then he needs refreshing. Bring on Periodic Training(for some DO need it!!).

83

Sorry for double post…bloody smartphone!!!

84

bald bloke:

cav551:
The hours that count towards your 13 hr, 15hr or however long day start at the time you clock on/sign on, NOT when you put the card/chart in the vehicle - WHATEVER the boss might say. Likewise at the end of the day.

What rubbish. If i’m down for a 5.00am start i’ll clock in at about 4.50 and neck a coffee back. Then about 5.00 just gone i’ll get my notes and keys and go and check over my unit, insert my card and do a manual entry showing i started at 5.00am. Some drivers will be in work a good 20 mins or more before their start time just to maybe chill have a tea or whatever.

Well of course arriving early and having a cuppa and a natter is OK. So arrive at ‘say’ 04.50 and when able, make a manual entry showing a start time of 05.00 ie the time you were told to report for work. It’s when you’re told the load isn’t ready yet, or there isn’t a unit available yet and “don’t book on your card yet” that it is wrong.

85

Daz1970:

FarnboroughBoy11:
Driving hours and duty time are part of the bloody theory test before you have even sat in a lorry let alone do any cpc modules!!!

Maybe OP hasn’t taken a theory test…I haven’t…passed Class 1 in 1991.
As I said…
We need more info. from OP. If he took/passed theory test then he needs refreshing. Bring on Periodic Training(for some DO need it!!).

You could be right, but if that is the case then it’s not good at all is it, someone that has held an HGV license for long that doesn’t know the basics of the hours rules and regs.

86

^+1

You will be surprised how many haven’t got a clue…not generally on TN because they are mostly ‘transport enthusiasts’ as well as drivers but not all drivers want to think about/post about their work. Many are less enthusiastic, less professional & far less clued up!!! Some good/some bad new drivers, some good/some bad old(er) drivers, we have a mixed bag.

87

In the last year have only driven 7 times.
Prior to Monday last time I drove truck was August 2012
Will not drive again till next week again just one day
I genuinely thought that I was ok as did less than the allowed max driving hours
Rest does not come into it as only work now and then, dont own a car so only take work that I can get to easily

88

stevenwignet:
In the last year have only driven 7 times.
Prior to Monday last time I drove truck was August 2012
Will not drive again till next week again just one day
I genuinely thought that I was ok as did less than the allowed max driving hours
Rest does not come into it as only work now and then, dont own a car so only take work that I can get to easily

Sorry chap but rest does come into it for the day that you worked. I know its only one day but you still have to abide by the rules, and in your case for that one day a maximum of 15 hrs from start to finish is all you should of done, and if you where using a digi card that will stay on your card till its over written and seeing as you only driver rarely that could take a number of years :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

89

A word of warning
There are some very knowledgeable people on here, many of who know exactly what they are talking about, however there are some who talk out of their backside, I have to go official here and say… Comments from members on here should be viewed as opinion, You should make your own judgement on any advice given, If your in serious doubt about your situation you should take advice from a body that is willing to stand by that in court and in person rather than people of the internet

90

I think the ops at the wind up.no one is this clue less

91

This is where I learnt about hours/tachos/WTD etc -

Part 1 - youtube.com/watch?v=f6EkkWbyiO8

Part 2 - youtube.com/watch?v=gVuHHtEnzOk

It’s mundane viewing, but watch it a few times, make some notes and you’ll soon become fluent with it.

But make notes, because some rules may not apply to your specific driving duties, so no point trying to fill your head with information you’re not going to use.

I generally find that the following basic points are most important -

45 minutes break after (realistically, before) 4.5 hours of continuous driving, can be split into two breaks totaling 45 minutes but the second break MUST be at least 30 minutes.

Max 9 hours driving per day, can be increased to 10 hours twice per week.

Max driving in one week 56 hours. But max over any two weeks is 90 hours, so if you drive 56 hours one week, by default you can only have driven 34 hours the week previous, and may only drive 34 hours the week following.

Regardless of driving, crossed hammers (other work), POA or breaks, maximum duty from sign on to sign off must allow for you to take 11 hours uninterrupted rest in each 24 hour period. This may be reduced to 9 hours, three times per week. These 2 hours are NOT required to be ‘made up’ in the future.

And one many people seem to forget… You must take a 30 minute break no later than 6 hours after signing on for work. This is a WTD requirement, not a drivers hours requirement. I am a little hazy as to whether drivers are allowed to ‘opt out’ of this. Any clarification?

I’m a new driver by the way, I learnt this from the videos above, and from SELF STUDY. I found that there was not a lot of focus on this subject in the initial CPC. Only one case study in the CPC theory test was about drivers hours if I remember correctly.

92

Javiatrix:
And one many people seem to forget… You must take a 30 minute break no later than 6 hours after signing on for work. This is a WTD requirement, not a drivers hours requirement. I am a little hazy as to whether drivers are allowed to ‘opt out’ of this. Any clarification?

You’ve summed it up pretty much spot on. But this quoted bit might get this thread going for another few pages :laughing:

93

Javiatrix:
Regardless of driving, crossed hammers (other work), POA or breaks, maximum duty from sign on to sign off must allow for you to take 11 hours uninterrupted rest in each 24 hour period. This may be reduced to 9 hours, three times per week. These 2 hours are NOT required to be ‘made up’ in the future.

You can have reduced daily rest periods three times between two weekly rest periods, not per week.

I know that may seem a bit pedantic but it can make a difference to some people :wink:

Article 8.4 (EC) 561/2006

A driver may have at most three reduced daily rest
periods between any two weekly rest periods.

Javiatrix:
And one many people seem to forget… You must take a 30 minute break no later than 6 hours after signing on for work. This is a WTD requirement, not a drivers hours requirement.

You should have a break of at-least 15 minutes before exceeding 6 hours working time.

To save me a lot of typing have a read of this thread, and this post

Javiatrix:
I am a little hazy as to whether drivers are allowed to ‘opt out’ of this. Any clarification?

The break requirements for the working time regulations cannot be opted out of.

94

stevenwignet:
i had a feeling it was well over the limit but had not much choice as had drivers mate with me and had to return them, at least i know my limits now. Just thought I could get away with it due to limited driving hours, i keep forgetting poa, other work all goes towards a working day

How can you not know FFS, your a professional driver yes we all make mistakes I am first to admit it … 14:59 hours I stop and they collect truck simple who gives a [zb] about a drivers mate?? you are putting people at risk …

95

toby1234abc:
It may be best to write on the back of the printout or tacho to explain why you went over the fifteen limit.Be careful with saying traffic jams or accidents as they can check that.If stopped you could pay a fine at the roadside.

How can he justify 2 1/2 hours■■? no one in right mind would accept that.

96

stevenwignet:
In the last year have only driven 7 times.
Prior to Monday last time I drove truck was August 2012
Will not drive again till next week again just one day
I genuinely thought that I was ok as did less than the allowed max driving hours
Rest does not come into it as only work now and then, dont own a car so only take work that I can get to easily

Just picked up on this thread; to add another dimension to the discussion, as a driver is required to keep records & the OP doesn’t drive very often, he could fall foul of the law by not being able to prove what daily or weekly rest he had prior to signing on?
A friend of mine was out of work for 6 months( made redundant from the Shell contract).
Anyway, he was offered the chance to do some European work which he accepted.
When stopped in Spain, he couldn’t prove what rest he’d had prior to undertaking the Spanish trip, result,€2000 fine!! You couldn’t make it up! They argued that he could’ve driven 24/7 with an analogue Tacho & thrown the charts away?
What he should’ve had(they said), was a letter from the employer confirming that he’d had sufficient weekly rest before commencing that weeks work, ■■■■■ doesn’t it?
As the work was casual, the employer was unwilling to even fax such a letter as he didn’t know the guy & wasn’t prepared to put his signature to any document that could incriminate him in the future.
Just saying.
Daz.

97

Daz1970:
^+1

You will be surprised how many haven’t got a clue…not generally on TN because they are mostly ‘transport enthusiasts’ as well as drivers.

I’m both :blush:
Anyway, has anybody mentioned split breaks yet :wink:

98

discoman:

toby1234abc:
It may be best to write on the back of the printout or tacho to explain why you went over the fifteen limit.Be careful with saying traffic jams or accidents as they can check that.If stopped you could pay a fine at the roadside.

How can he justify 2 1/2 hours■■? no one in right mind would accept that.

He might, if he can convince them that he is as thick as pig ■■■■!
Professional driver? My arse.

99

Semtex:
I would have thought that drivers hours would be part of the initial driver cpc

EU missed this opportunity with the initial dcpc module 2

Mod 2 is a silly scenario test but could easily have been a test on drivers hours etc

There can be a few questions in the normal theory test but that’s it

After passing the initial dcpc they can opt to take a periodic dcpc module on drivers hours which will get their first 7 hours towards the 35 they need during the next 5 years

100

Dogsbody:

stevenwignet:
In the last year have only driven 7 times.
Prior to Monday last time I drove truck was August 2012
Will not drive again till next week again just one day
I genuinely thought that I was ok as did less than the allowed max driving hours
Rest does not come into it as only work now and then, dont own a car so only take work that I can get to easily

Just picked up on this thread; to add another dimension to the discussion, as a driver is required to keep records & the OP doesn’t drive very often, he could fall foul of the law by not being able to prove what daily or weekly rest he had prior to signing on?
A friend of mine was out of work for 6 months( made redundant from the Shell contract).
Anyway, he was offered the chance to do some European work which he accepted.
When stopped in Spain, he couldn’t prove what rest he’d had prior to undertaking the Spanish trip, result,€2000 fine!! You couldn’t make it up! They argued that he could’ve driven 24/7 with an analogue Tacho & thrown the charts away?
What he should’ve had(they said), was a letter from the employer confirming that he’d had sufficient weekly rest before commencing that weeks work, ■■■■■ doesn’t it?
As the work was casual, the employer was unwilling to even fax such a letter as he didn’t know the guy & wasn’t prepared to put his signature to any document that could incriminate him in the future.
Just saying.
Daz.

A letter of atestation is what he should have had. This is now needed to show periods where you can’t provide cards for, including after taking your summer holidays. And again it was a pretty rookie move to head for Spain without previous 28 days cards or this letter