Thanks all, like I said I may be a few mins out in places - I did a printout though so if I get chance I’ll put a piccy on here tomorrow.
The tacho doesn’t flash at 4:15 (4:16 in mine for some reason) if I check the driving time regularly - which I do, I assume that’s why it didn’t flash until quite late.
Anyway, assuming all’s ok, where do I stand if the analysis company send it through as an infringement? Do I refuse to sign it, sign it knowing it’s B.S. or what?
Coffeeholic:
repton:
The software in the tacho head has incorrectly counted the 22mins break and POA that followed it as a full break and reset the driving counterSimon:
22 minutes break
30 (could be 23) minutes poa (resets drive time etc)He says he only recorded 5 or 10 minute POA which would not be enough, with the 22 minute break, to reset the driving counter.
darkseeker:
Only on poa for 5-10mins
Missed that flamin post. 
darkseeker:
Anyway, assuming all’s ok, where do I stand if the analysis company send it through as an infringement? Do I refuse to sign it, sign it knowing it’s B.S. or what?
If all is okay it won’t show as an infringement, the tacho flashing a driving time warning at you doesn’t show on the data so the analysis company won’t know about it and they will just work off the data as it was recorded.
darkseeker:
The tacho doesn’t flash at 4:15 (4:16 in mine for some reason)
That’s odd, though it depends which clock you’re going by: the truck one or the tacho recorded time (and not the tacho 1 minute out time).[3 different times]
(I’ve had some tachos tell me I’ve had 15 minutes (timed) on the top right of the display, when it has only recorded 14 “calendar minutes” on the top left.)
The best way to use POA is right after you’ve taken the full 45min break, and you know you’re going to be stuck for at least another half hour.
If you used POA before a break is due, then it has the habit of resetting the clock, implying you’re not needing to take a break. A quick manual count however will still require one after 4.5hours, of which any part-break 15-44 mins in length will only count 15 mins towards it. I have fallen foul of this a couple of times switching off the break at 44 mins in error, only to find when I put it on break again (correcting the mis-mode selection) I have to take another 30 mins to make it all legal again! 
I’m sure we’ve all had at some point a clean high-viz pillock insisting that we move right now, and not wait for the last 3 mins of your 45 break eh? They don’t like it when I then insist upon staying on the bay for an extra 30mins, but tough. I don’t get paid extra to cut corners, but the opposite. 
VOSA advised me that POA is not to be used unless you are expecting to be stationary with the engine off, but available to move at a moment’s notice for at least half an hour. Eg. M1 closed, serious accident. You’re gonna be there for 90 mins plus easily. or example 2 On a bay at an RDC, and they have not started to unload you yet, but you’ve already finished your 45 min normal break. 
Sticking it on because you are in a very slow moving queue at the RDC is considered mis-use. Many firms encourage drivers not to use POA in the first place by counting POA as “off-duty” time, or unpaid hours like your trip to and from work. 
Are you sure you actually recorded 2mins driving? If you have the new tacho software and you didn’t drive for 31 seconds in the calendar minute it would have recorded it as work and your first break wouldn’t have counted. And the manual entries on the new tachos are a pain in the arse, we have one truck with it and a steady stream of drivers who can’t figure it out, just press the buttons and then say the tacho is broken.
Manual entry, about 10mins “other work”
Drive for 2mins, couple up and stick it on break as I know I won’t be going anywhere for about 40mins and pop for a coffee and a ■■■
Return after 22 min Break and change mode to poa
Drive for 4 Hour 12 min
30 min Break
Continue driving and tacho flashes “driver 1 break, 5h10” (or similar).
now i count 2 min Driving + 4 hour 12 min driving is 4 hour 14 minute
Break is 22 min + 30 minute thats 55 minute by Driving 4 Hour 14 minutes.
That shall be legal
But,maybe you moved a Meter and Tacho switched automatically from Break to work 
and you got with that less then 45 Minute Break 
Simon:
Coffeeholic:
darkseeker:
Drive for 2mins, couple up and stick it on break
Return after 22mins break and change mode to poa
Drive for 4hrs 12mins
30min breakThat’s fine, legal and it should have reset the driving time clock after the 30 minute break.
Four suggestions and/or possible causes.
A. You messed up the manual entry at the start of the shift so it hasn’t recognised a daily rest period and has therefore included part of your driving from the previous shift. Unlikely because based on what you have said it should have flashed a break warning earlier if that was the case.
- You haven’t actually recorded one of the break periods even though you think you have, maybe didn’t select the mode correctly. The fact it started flashing up 5h10 doesn’t make this likely as it should have started flashing at 4h15 and again at 4h30 then nagging you continuously. Maybe you didn’t see it flashing earlier because it starting to flash at 5h10 is just weird.
iii. You’re confused.
IV. Stop messing around with POA then it’s easier to sort this type of conundrum out if you don’t add in pointless stuff.
Can you take a printout and scan or photograph it and post it on this thread, blank out your personal details and the reg number.
Betcha it goes -
10 minutes OW
2 minutes driving
22 minutes break
30 (could be 23) minutes poa (resets drive time etc)
4.12 minutes drive
30 minutes break
58 minutes drive - flashes up driving time exceeded, total 5.10 once you stop.
It’ll have started flashing at 3 and 18 minutes after starting, but some tacho/truck combinations are less obvious than others.If it’s this, you’re legal. It’s one of those stupid things that digi-tachos do.
This is one reason why I keep a diary. Just in case I do something like this. I know what driving time I’ve done, so I know my breaks are right, even if its flashed up on my dash/tacho as being wrong.
Well,i did 3 Times in Yard shunting and got 3 Infringement when i recorded it manuell 
I am glad I retired from lorry driving before all this digital stuff came on the scene.
It sound very complicated to a chap who grew up with throw away log sheets and paper tacho cards.
Can you tell me what the POA is all about?
Russell.
infringement off who?
To me poa is just bull. Either im driving, kipping or tipping{other work]. Dont quite see how youve got an infringement, if youve had a total of 45 off before your 4.5 is done. Another thing, if youve only got 3 infringments in the last twelve months id say basically don`t stress about it.
I got an infringement, and had to sign for it, and it wasnt my fault…tough times.
I now do part time since retiring and work Mon, Wed, Fri, and so i drive different trucks on different days, this particular truck i had does not stay on the mode you put it on…for example, i arrived at St Albans, backed on the bay, put digi on rest, took keys out, put them on the hook, handed papers in, went to the canteen, after tipping, went back to the truck, drove back to the depot, it was only on downloading my card, did i find out i had an infringement, well a few days later got called to the office, but at the time didnt know how i had got an offence. It was only when i had the same truck out, and did a test with keys in and out did i realise that it has a mind of its own,and changes modes as soon as the keys are removed, and no illumination on the device to double check, i have since told the t/m and spoke to the driver ( who stated he likes it like that ) Why are digis not set to the same standard so as not to confuse other drivers who may drive that vehicle. Our company operates a points system, 3 points for every offence, and a disciplinary for reaching 18 points, so i lost 3 points for something beyond my control, but i did tell the t/m that the regular driver should lose points for not reporting the defect in the first place.
truckyboy:
…but i did tell the t/m that the regular driver should lose points for not reporting the defect in the first place.
He shouldn’t really being as how it’s not a defect. He could possibly counter argue that you should lose another 3 points for not knowing or learning how to use it. 
I am glad I retired from lorry driving before all this digital stuff came on the scene.
It sound very complicated to a chap who grew up with throw away log sheets and paper tacho cards
+1 
truckyboy:
I got an infringement, and had to sign for it, and it wasnt my fault…tough times.
I now do part time since retiring and work Mon, Wed, Fri, and so i drive different trucks on different days, this particular truck i had does not stay on the mode you put it on…for example, i arrived at St Albans, backed on the bay, put digi on rest, took keys out, put them on the hook, handed papers in, went to the canteen, after tipping, went back to the truck, drove back to the depot, it was only on downloading my card, did i find out i had an infringement, well a few days later got called to the office, but at the time didnt know how i had got an offence. It was only when i had the same truck out, and did a test with keys in and out did i realise that it has a mind of its own,and changes modes as soon as the keys are removed, and no illumination on the device to double check, i have since told the t/m and spoke to the driver ( who statedhe likes it like that) Why are digis not set to the same standard so as not to confuse other drivers who may drive that vehicle. Our company operates a points system, 3 points for every offence, and a disciplinary for reaching 18 points, so i lost 3 points for something beyond my control, but i did tell the t/m that the regular driver should lose points for not reporting the defect in the first place.
It’s not a defect, some digital tachographs default to rest when the ignition is switched off and some default to other work, if you’re using different trucks all the time you need to get into the habit of checking when you turn off the ignition.
Admittedly it’s not always easy especially in the dark but I’ve always managed usually with just the interior lights on but there has been the odd vehicle I’ve had to use a torch to see the tachograph display when the ignition is switched off.
Sorry but you’re the one who didn’t check to see what mode the tachograph was on before leaving the vehicle so it was your fault you got an infringement not the other driver
darkseeker:
Anyway, assuming all’s ok, where do I stand if the analysis company send it through as an infringement? Do I refuse to sign it, sign it knowing it’s B.S. or what?
Same as any other infringment that comes back from any analysis company - sign it and ignore it as it holds no legal significance. The only time it is worth even looking what you are signing is if your employer has some kind of scheme whereby admitting an infringment is going to cost you in wages or benefits in some way.
Paul
Thanks all, think you’ve answered the question anyway but I said I’d post a piccy of the printout so I might as well do so. It’s folded to hide my details, nothing else is hidden.
To be honest, I asked about refusing to sign it as I know the boss gets a bit funny about infringements and (if I’m 100% honest) in a way I’m looking for a reason to tell him what he can do with his job
Can’t see how there could be an infringement, Q is there an * at the side of the 30 min break @ 21.27? I can’t find any reference anywhere but I’ve noticed there is a * when a 45 is completed and a new driving period begins (on siemens anyhow).
These tachos do funny things, when my ‘new’ 06 plate LF came up from Camberly in Sept i checked the UTC was correct ie not on BST, local time was on bst. Friday I gets in the truck and its an hour behind, no-one could’ve changed it, old printouts I’ve done confirm it was correct previously, no black dot etc. I’m the one that usually changes other trucks to BST and back for some of the ‘ahem’ more experienced drivers. Up to the workshop and had it reset.
If you’re given an infringement for that the analysis company is at fault because you’ve done nothing on that printout to warrant an infringement.
I doubt you will get an infringement but if an infringement for that came my way I’d refuse to sign it and point out that it’s the analysis software that’s at fault.
Having said that I doubt that you will get an infringement for it.
MADBAZ:
Can’t see how there could be an infringement, Q is there an * at the side of the 30 min break @ 21.27? I can’t find any reference anywhere but I’ve noticed there is a * when a 45 is completed and a new driving period begins (on siemens anyhow).
You only get a * next to a break on a printout if the break is at least 1 hour, it won’t appear for any period of less than 1 hour even if it completes a 45 minute break and resets the driving timer. The * indicates it was a period long enough to be counted under the pre April 2007 rules toward a split daily rest, 2 or 3 periods of at least 1 hour with the final part being at least 8 hours. Under the current rules the * is meaningless.