Euro:
other organisations in which I support remaining
CMR
TIR
CITES
NATO
Interpol
Geneva Convention
UNICEF
UNESCO
European Space Agency
United Nations
International Air Traffic Covention
I thought CMR, TIR and the Geneva Convention were agreements not actual organisations, and just giving list of establishment organisations, run by the same type of people it’s not really a surprise they support continued EU membership, but do they support it for their benefit or for our benefit?
Carryfast:
Euro:
NATOLet me guess which by implication also supports Ukraine joining.What could possibly go wrong.
Hopefully it will be a remain vote just to hear all those remain Socialist students start whingeing about refusing their call up papers for the Russian front when it all inevitably kicks off.Might as well standardise on all German markings in that case so as to avoid any confusion and friendly fire incidents.
Yernow what Carry, i’m almost hoping we stay in, dunno who they’re going to blame when what’s coming over the next 20 years becomes reality.
I’ll make sure not to hand me ear defenders back in when i retire, cos hearing them all boohooing their eyes out and blaming everyone except themselves for their woes i can do without.
Juddian:
Carryfast:
Euro:
NATOLet me guess which by implication also supports Ukraine joining.What could possibly go wrong.
Yernow what Carry, i’m almost hoping we stay in, dunno who they’re going to blame when what’s coming over the next 20 years becomes reality.
I’ll make sure not to hand me ear defenders back in when i retire, cos hearing them all boohooing their eyes out and blaming everyone except themselves for their woes i can do without.
Cameron and Blair told us it was in our economic interests and Corbyn said it was all about Peace in Europe and the common Socialist cause. 
World Trade Organisation
CERN
UEFA
Peace in Europe they would define as total submission in Europe. It was what Hitler wanted of us in 1940 - but we had proper leadership then who could sell “Blood, Toil, Sweat, and Tears” to the British Public.
Imagine any of our current shower of politicians trying to get us involved in action that would definitely kill over a million of our own people today…
I’d like to think that “British Grit” would face up to the dangers, the risks - the adventure of what Brexit would be.
We already know how bad austerity can be after all - when Greece bottled out of making the same decision that’s come to us now.
Winseer:
Peace in Europe they would define as total submission in Europe. It was what Hitler wanted of us in 1940 - but we had proper leadership then who could sell “Blood, Toil, Sweat, and Tears” to the British Public.Imagine any of our current shower of politicians trying to get us involved in action that would definitely kill over a million of our own people today…
I’d like to think that “British Grit” would face up to the dangers, the risks - the adventure of what Brexit would be.
We already know how bad austerity can be after all - when Greece bottled out of making the same decision that’s come to us now.
I was thinking more along the lines of Blair being back in a position of power within the EU with a now totally subservient UK to the EU federation.With Blair and co,or their successors,eventually committing UK forces and the country to a war of ‘regime change’ against Russia.The EU having decided to move the EU and NATO into Ukraine including returning Crimea to Ukrainian control.A million dead dream on. 
OVLOV JAY:
The bbc aren’t impartial, they receive millions in Eu subsidies
This is from 2012 where the BBC admitted in a letter to a Tory MP that it has received nearly £3million in grant money from the European Union over the previous four years.
OVLOV JAY:
. . . because this country has no way of standing on its own feet
That’s the impression I get from the Remainers. If we come out of the EU the UK will not be able to survive.
The fifth biggest economy in the world, pulling away from France and closing in on Germany. And all thanks to the EU!
Stanley Knife:
OVLOV JAY:
. . . because this country has no way of standing on its own feetThat’s the impression I get from the Remainers. If we come out of the EU the UK will not be able to survive.
The fifth biggest economy in the world, pulling away from France and closing in on Germany. And all thanks to the EU!
I think Cameron and Osborn should both resign on Friday, regardless of result. To talk down the economy and country in the manner they have, is nothing short of outrageous. They don’t deserve to hold the highest positions in government if they don’t subscribe to the beliefs of the nation. To feel that we are no more than a minor cog in a huge machine is unpatriotic to say the least
Cameron won’t resign. The worst PM we’ve had since Heath is so arrogant it’s unreal. My money goes on him quitting the job early 2018, just after he’s finished his stint as President of the EU Council. 
Stanley Knife:
OVLOV JAY:
. . . because this country has no way of standing on its own feetThat’s the impression I get from the Remainers. If we come out of the EU the UK will not be able to survive.
The fifth biggest economy in the world,
Quantity isn’t exactly the same thing as quality.We’re actually staggering under a massive trade deficit induced national debt figure and stagnant growth caused by collapsing wage levels in real terms.Ironically EU membership being a big part of the reasons for that.
While if we’d have got a Shore and Powell led co alition in 1975 instead of Callaghan followed by Thatcher etc by now we’d have been well in front of Germany.The problem was/is the bankers knew/know it and they’d all bet on Germany to be top dog in Europe. 
OVLOV JAY:
I think Cameron and Osborn should both resign on Friday, regardless of result. To talk down the economy and country in the manner they have, is nothing short of outrageous. They don’t deserve to hold the highest positions in government if they don’t subscribe to the beliefs of the nation. To feel that we are no more than a minor cog in a huge machine is unpatriotic to say the least
+1, hear hear!
Stanley Knife:
Cameron won’t resign. The worst PM we’ve had since Heath is so arrogant it’s unreal. My money goes on him quitting the job early 2018, just after he’s finished his stint as President of the EU Council.
Or the Cons implode and his Eurosceptic MP’s give him the choice of zb off and take Osborne with him or they walk away to join UKIP on Monday after being robbed of a free and fair referendum. 
While assuming the miracle of an out vote see above. 
There’s no doubting that with a small majority, and half of the Tory MPs pro Brexit, Cameron has a problem. He cannot silence them all. And given that Labour is so awful, Tory rebels can make life hell for him. It will only need around 50 Conservative MP’s to lodge a vote of No Confidence in the PM, but being on the opposite side on the EU referendum is not the same as opposing your party leader in the House of Commons. I think Cameron would welcome a leadership challenge, to get rid of the rabble on the Eurosceptic right of the Conservative party once and for all. That’s why I think he’ll survive until early 2018.
One thing I am certain of is that the next leader of the Conservatives will be eurosceptic. Gove and Johnson are the favourites at present, but never underestimate the ability of the Tories to wangle the result so that the favourite son doesn’t get in. (Think Thatcher and Major). The new eurosceptic PM will then have around two years to fashion a belief that a Conservative win at GE2020 will be a mandate to hold another referendum - whether the EU allows it or not.
Interesting times ahead.
Stanley Knife:
There’s no doubting that with a small majority, and half of the Tory MPs pro Brexit, Cameron has a problem. He cannot silence them all. And given that Labour is so awful, Tory rebels can make life hell for him. It will only need around 50 Conservative MP’s to lodge a vote of No Confidence in the PM, but being on the opposite side on the EU referendum is not the same as opposing your party leader in the House of Commons. I think Cameron would welcome a leadership challenge, to get rid of the rabble on the Eurosceptic right of the Conservative party once and for all. That’s why I think he’ll survive until early 2018.One thing I am certain of is that the next leader of the Conservatives will be eurosceptic. Gove and Johnson are the favourites at present, but never underestimate the ability of the Tories to wangle the result so that the favourite son doesn’t get in. (Think Thatcher and Major). The new eurosceptic PM will then have around two years to fashion a belief that a Conservative win at GE2020 will be a mandate to hold another referendum - whether the EU allows it or not.
Interesting times ahead.
Assuming that the Eurosceptics have all got the backing of their constituencies to the point of being able to defeat any Cameron Europhile loyalist challenge the best bet would be to walk away and join UKIP if Cameron refuses to go.They’d then have more power over Cameron’s administration as UKIP MP’s than if they stayed with him.
The strength of the Brexit vote at a constituency level regards the Eurosceptic MP’s and the implications of that regarding causing havoc to Cameron’s administration,being the key to whether or not losing the referendum would also be the end of the Brexit campaign.Or for that matter leaving Juncker’s Federal zb pile with the massive headache of an EU member state of which too many of its electorate really don’t want to be there.On that note ironically UKIP would probably become an even more important force assuming a remain win than it was before.
[ Staying in the EU helps out those same banks A LOT.
[/quote]
So will leaving the EU make bankers become less like blood sucking leeches then? Or will it be the case that they’re “our” blood sucking leeches?
How about the UK National debt of £1.7 trillion (approx), does anyone know if that’s secured on the country like a gigantic mortgage or is it unsecured?
I hope everyone on whichever side is taking note of which way their MP leans in this debate. Could make things interesting next general election !
Munchkin:
[ Staying in the EU helps out those same banks A LOT.
So will leaving the EU make bankers become less like blood sucking leeches then? Or will it be the case that they’re “our” blood sucking leeches?
How about the UK National debt of £1.7 trillion (approx), does anyone know if that’s secured on the country like a gigantic mortgage or is it unsecured?
[/quote]
No, but leaving the EU will lay bare the truth that “anyone can default” and foreign banks will BEG whatever government is by then running things over here to “Keep the faith”.
Look at the way Carney lies about the prospects of an “interest rate rise in the not too distant future”.
The interest rate futures market has a rise to beyond 2% in the next 5 years - practically impossible!
Rates are going nowhere anytime soon - but if the public knew that - they’d stop buying those fixed rate mortgage “products” which trick people (using fear again) into “paying slightly over the odds” for the peace of mind that the rate is fixed. The banks lay that upside - which they make money on, because they never have to pay out on it for nearly a decade now!
Our national debt is effectively unsecured. It’s all outstanding in our bonds already in issue. New bonds are issued each month, as Osbourne needs to borrow more and more just to pay to keep the lights on these days. Other chancellors have done the same before him, and no doubt whomever succeeds him will soon be taught “don’t worry about borrowing too much” as well. The price the bonds go for in tender auction - depicts the interest rate for that month’s issue. If bond prices fall - the interest rate on next month’s bonds will then RISE. If it’s perceived that there is a chance of default - the bond prices will go into free-fall, and the implied rate will hike up to very high levels - as happened in Greece.
If the UK defaults it’s bonds (As Russia did in the 90’s) - the world’s lenders who lost that money - won’t lend money again for quite a while… But that’s ALL they can do.
Who goes to war over an unpaid debt these days?
I repeat then:
“Defaulting an unsecured debt means you cannot borrow more unsecured debt for some time after…”
Fine - if you can live within your means for the time being… If you can’t? - Better keep on paying then - just so you can re-max out the credit card again next month! Lenders make a LOT of extra interest that way…
Tsipras should have defaulted the entire Greek debt, and printed Euros to get by with. When the ECB bans them from doing thus, they put the rest of the Euros into free-fall, as the rest of the world won’t know which euros are “good” and which were “worthless paper printed by the Greek banks”.
I’ve got a Confederate States of America dollar bill - which is worth less than the paper it’s written on, despite being an antique and historical curiosity…
There’s no option to split up the Euros though - so they’d ALL go down the pan. The ECB would have to let Greece go, and beg them not to print any more Euros - by offering them some “Free” QE ones of their own as a “Final Plunge”. This would of course have been illegal under EU law - but Tsipras had the chance to make Greek law fly in the face of EU law - to expose the loss of sovereignty, and bring the entire EU project crashing down under it’s own weight of “No Confidence”.
Alas - thought the only way to get more money out of the ECB though - was to play it legally, and duely fell upon his proverbial knees to become the biggest lickcock in History, traitor to his people, worst of the worst Prime minister… No wonder Yanis Varoufakis walked out in disgust!
One of the threads had a utube link whichwas about half hour long. This was spoken by several people and finished with a reference to the eu becoming the ussr.it mentioned the master plan to create a USE, which had been a plot hatched in the 1920s to be achieved gradually. Could someone repost the link please.
It’s arguable whether Varoufakis was pushed or jumped, nevertheless he was despised by the EU apparatchiks as he wouldn’t bend to their needs - whereas Tsipras bent over and took it like a good little boy.