I'm getting sick of the remain in EU bias/mantra

[matkirk]

Most of the countries in the EU are in a mess.

The only things that will happen if we leave is that

1. We won’t end up with 10 million kurds and turks when the join

2. The EU will probably collapse as other countries follow our lead like Sweden, Holland etc.

Stay and we become over time a corroded EU state.

I’ve lived around the world, and there’s a good reason for our success. People like to do business with Brits over many other countries. They are not gonna suddenly say "lets do business with a corrupt Hungarian mess of bureaucracy and lose our money.

British people need to remember that they are actually worth quite a lot in the grand scheme of things.

[carryfast]

matkirk:
British people need to remember that they are actually worth quite a lot in the grand scheme of things.

Which explains the difference between North America v Latin America,or Australia and New Zealand v Asia.

[wiretwister]

ROG:
This is the way I see it with three main issues

1 laws/legislation control
2 immigration/border control
3 economics/financial stability ( at least for the foreseeable future )

REMAIN = 3
LEAVE = 1 + 2

Now its up to folk as to where their priority lies

Seems to me that the media are only commenting on number 3

Don’t forget 4 - Political union. Has any citizen had the chance to vote on the EU President?

[mac12]

My inlaws who are in there 80s live in Spain and they have been told that they have got to go online to regester to vote to stay in or they will be asked to leave Spain if we vote out. They don’t have a computer have not voted in the uk for 15 years but are now getting very upset about what to do, the goverment must be very worried we will vote out when they are telling them what to do.

[tommy_t]

mac12:
My inlaws who are in there 80s live in Spain and they have been told that they have got to go online to regester to vote to stay in or they will be asked to leave Spain if we vote out. They don’t have a computer have not voted in the uk for 15 years but are now getting very upset about what to do, the government must be very worried we will vote out when they are telling them what to do.

they don’t have to vote in or out ,there seems to be a lot of bs doing the rounds at the moment , think about it why would the Spanish want to deport British ex pats if we leave the EU?

[chronosuk]

mac12:
My inlaws who are in there 80s live in Spain and they have been told that they have got to go online to regester to vote to stay in or they will be asked to leave Spain if we vote out. They don’t have a computer have not voted in the uk for 15 years but are now getting very upset about what to do, the goverment must be very worried we will vote out when they are telling them what to do.

I’m sorry, which government is sending these scaremongering missives?

As it stands, ex-pats must have been on an electoral roll at some time in the last 15 years to be eligible to vote. This is an arbitrary cut-off that was designed in when the EU referendum franchise was agreed. If your relatives have not been legally resident and on an electoral roll for this length of time, they cannot currently vote in the referendum. This is being challenged as we speak but has already fallen at the first hurdle and has now gone to appeal.

As for ex-pats being booted out, that isn’t even a remotely realistic scenario. For a start, they probably own property there, not to mention being taxpayers, even if it’s only VAT. Whoever is fomenting these rumours needs a good, stern “talking to” for putting retired people under pressure like this. Talk about emotional blackmail…

[matkirk]

Carryfast:

matkirk:
British people need to remember that they are actually worth quite a lot in the grand scheme of things.

Which explains the difference between North America v Latin America,or Australia and New Zealand v Asia.

Exactly Carryfast. Working in Latin America you leave the house expecting to achieve nothing, then when you actually get something done you’re pleasantly surprised. But guaranteed you’ll have to queue for hours and need endless tickets and bits of paper.

From the outside looking in Britain is still “Great”, and yes maybe they’ll be 3 or 4 years a bit bumpy, but I’d rather take that then condemn my kids to a life of being an EU state dragged down to other EU country levels, rather than bringing those countries up to our standards.

[mac12]

I think it’s the uk goverment that has sent them it but where did they get there address from. They may have been on the uk electroal roll in the last 15 years but only just. We tell them not to believe it but at there age who will they take notice off us or a letter though the door

[winseer]

Carryfast:

Winseer:
The betting suggests 63% “Remain” to 37% “Leave”. That’s nearly a 2:1 majority AGAINST us FFS.

To be fair the odds for out at less than 3/1 when I last checked isn’t exactly the odds of a no hoper horse.While the odds for in might have more to do with discouraging the idea of putting loads of money on out and enough on in to get the stake money on out back if in wins.While doing it in a way which doesn’t upset the establishment.

It is an outsider price in a two horse race… Have you ever played markets, made serious bets, and made tactical stabs at any betting market? Yes, a price half as much again as the number of runners suggests an outsider in any kind of race. “No Hopers” tend to be those “selections” which are offered at four times the number of runners, or greater. Even they still win on occasion though.

Concepts:
A 33-1 winner of the 40 runner grand national - is NOT an “outsider”.
A 10-1 shot in a 2 horse race IS a “Rank outsider” or “No Hoper”.
Brexit remains a chance - because it’s trading at 3-1 for “any winning margin”. I have taken heart from this comparative short price for an outsider, and bet on the thing that no one else seems to be looking at… “Winning by a 60/40 margin or better”.

I’ve put a £25 bet on the 40-1 shot which is “Remain getting less than 40% of the poll”.
There again, I back the under dog and rank outsiders all the time - so this kind of bet for me is serious, tactical, - but of course “forlorn” at the same time.

I don’t vote Labour, but I also had a tactical fiver on the 100-1 odds about Milliband would win the last election. It’s all about getting a price that’s better than the real chances, perceived or otherwise.
I figured for sure that he wasn’t really neck and neck with Cameron from this huge price being offered - but also figured that his chances were nowhere near that low either.

[bluey_circles]

The odds from the bookies does not reflect the opinion polls

Bookies; REMAIN 1/3 … EXIT 9/4 (paddypower)
Opinion Poll; REMAIN 41% … EXIT 42% (youGov)

could be worth a few quid on the Exit.

[freight_dog]

OVLOV JAY:
I do fear this referendum will be swung by the idiotic younger generation. They wander around pandering to the left with their air of self entitlement. Makes you sick to think such misinformed fools can ruin it for everyone else

+1 I read somewhere the average most likely to vote is a young female graduate. The young graduate stereotype - very vocal and full of BBC liberal rigamortis, yet have not been around quite long enough to experience the trajectory of our country or to form a realistic perspective that, just maybe, what they read and hear from their sources such as the BBC is actually very biased.

[bluey_circles]

tommy t:

Bluey Circles:

war1974:
I don’t get the argument about security and our borders and immigration - we are an island its so easy to control - it will also create jobs if we do what say Egypt do and charge an entry fee.

So what are we going to do when a lorry arrives in Dover with 50 migrants hiding in the back ? and with no control on the French side that scenario will become very common. We can’t deport them as that would flout United Nations law.

If we ceased being in the EU and changed some of the hideous clearly not fit for purpose human rights laws that can prevent them being deported back to France, personally i don’t think is unreasonable at all to deport them back to France or Belgium both are Safe countries , as are turkey and Greece , if we went back to checking on our side ,they would have to buy some land nearby as a holding area so EVERY Lorry could be checked, infact if the checks where done in the uk they would probably find more of the [zb], as those tossers who check lorries @ calais don’t do a proper job anyway

Do you think the French or Belgium’s would accept them back? we would need to do it officially, arrange a time and port to hand them back over, and the French would just refuse and block the port. Even if we worked out the original country of origin what are we going to do, drop them in by parachute, the UN would have a hairy canary.
The French would turn a blind eye to them boarding lorries and boats and we would never get shot of them. I think a Brexit could see migration from outwith Europe to the UK dramatically increasing.

[carryfast]

Winseer:

Carryfast:
To be fair the odds for out at less than 3/1 when I last checked isn’t exactly the odds of a no hoper horse.While the odds for in might have more to do with discouraging the idea of putting loads of money on out and enough on in to get the stake money on out back if in wins.While doing it in a way which doesn’t upset the establishment.

It is an outsider price in a two horse race… Have you ever played markets, made serious bets, and made tactical stabs at any betting market? Yes, a price half as much again as the number of runners suggests an outsider in any kind of race. “No Hopers” tend to be those “selections” which are offered at four times the number of runners, or greater. Even they still win on occasion though.

Concepts:
A 33-1 winner of the 40 runner grand national - is NOT an “outsider”.
A 10-1 shot in a 2 horse race IS a “Rank outsider” or “No Hoper”.
Brexit remains a chance - because it’s trading at 3-1 for “any winning margin”. I have taken heart from this comparative short price for an outsider, and bet on the thing that no one else seems to be looking at… “Winning by a 60/40 margin or better”.

I’ve put a £25 bet on the 40-1 shot which is “Remain getting less than 40% of the poll”.
There again, I back the under dog and rank outsiders all the time - so this kind of bet for me is serious, tactical, - but of course “forlorn” at the same time.

I don’t vote Labour, but I also had a tactical fiver on the 100-1 odds about Milliband would win the last election. It’s all about getting a price that’s better than the real chances, perceived or otherwise.
I figured for sure that he wasn’t really neck and neck with Cameron from this huge price being offered - but also figured that his chances were nowhere near that low either.

I don’t think the prices on the favourites in the National are much different to the favourites in any other race while the odds are more a reflection of the horse’s chances of winning than how many horses in the race.IE 20 no hopers, and two favourites is no different to 10 no hopers and two favourites.As I said in this case there are two favourites and as usual the odds reflect the idea of making it unviable to bet on every horse in the race,with a large bet on the shortest odds favourites,to cover the stake money on the rest.

On that note if you think I’m wrong why not do as I said in putting loads of money on out and enough on in to cover the stake on out if out loses ?.

[freight_dog]

Bluey Circles:

tommy t:

Bluey Circles:

war1974:
I don’t get the argument about security and our borders and immigration - we are an island its so easy to control - it will also create jobs if we do what say Egypt do and charge an entry fee.

So what are we going to do when a lorry arrives in Dover with 50 migrants hiding in the back ? and with no control on the French side that scenario will become very common. We can’t deport them as that would flout United Nations law.

If we ceased being in the EU and changed some of the hideous clearly not fit for purpose human rights laws that can prevent them being deported back to France, personally i don’t think is unreasonable at all to deport them back to France or Belgium both are Safe countries , as are turkey and Greece , if we went back to checking on our side ,they would have to buy some land nearby as a holding area so EVERY Lorry could be checked, infact if the checks where done in the uk they would probably find more of the [zb], as those tossers who check lorries @ calais don’t do a proper job anyway

Do you think the French or Belgium’s would accept them back? we would need to do it officially, arrange a time and port to hand them back over, and the French would just refuse and block the port. Even if we worked out the original country of origin what are we going to do, drop them in by parachute, the UN would have a hairy canary.
The French would turn a blind eye to them boarding lorries and boats and we would never get shot of them. I think a Brexit could see migration from outwith Europe to the UK dramatically increasing.

Are you talking illegal immigration, legal un capped cross border immigration or both?

With a border you’re down to the illegal immigration being a problem. Stay in the EU and both illegal and perfectly legal immigration in the UK will become nice and fun once an Asian Turkey joins the socialist state of European countries, sorry EU.

[carryfast]

Freight Dog:

OVLOV JAY:
I do fear this referendum will be swung by the idiotic younger generation. They wander around pandering to the left with their air of self entitlement. Makes you sick to think such misinformed fools can ruin it for everyone else

+1 I read somewhere the average most likely to vote is a young female graduate. The young graduate stereotype - very vocal and full of BBC liberal rigamortis, yet have not been around quite long enough to experience the trajectory of our country or to form a realistic perspective that, just maybe, what they read and hear from their sources such as the BBC is actually very biased.

Or in campaign propaganda that’s desperately hoping that the zb wit in Socialist Labour vote will outweigh the combined UKIP/Euro Sceptic Conservative and Labour out vote.On that note the combined vote of the Socialist Labour Party,Lib Dems and Socialist Workers Party is a better guide to the comparative strength of the Socialists in real terms.Bearing in mind that there is also a faction of even the Socialist vote that sees Merkel and the EU as Capitalist infiltration of Socialism. As opposed to vice versa among those who ( correctly ) think that Merkel and the EU is a symptom of vice versa.

As for the future direction of the Labour Party.The fate of Ken Livingstone and his zb wit Socialist allies is probably the turning point in that regard and which hopefully might have a catastrophic effect on any help which Cameron was hoping for from the Labour vote.IE the in campaign’s,and by implication Cameron’s,credibility is being gradually demolished by the alliance that it is relying on made up of people like Blair,Corbyn and Livingstone among others.

bbc.co.uk/schoolreport/21850995

[carryfast]

Bluey Circles:

tommy t:
If we ceased being in the EU and changed some of the hideous clearly not fit for purpose human rights laws that can prevent them being deported back to France, personally i don’t think is unreasonable at all to deport them back to France or Belgium both are Safe countries , as are turkey and Greece , if we went back to checking on our side ,they would have to buy some land nearby as a holding area so EVERY Lorry could be checked, infact if the checks where done in the uk they would probably find more of the [zb], as those tossers who check lorries @ calais don’t do a proper job anyway

Do you think the French or Belgium’s would accept them back? we would need to do it officially, arrange a time and port to hand them back over, and the French would just refuse and block the port. Even if we worked out the original country of origin what are we going to do, drop them in by parachute, the UN would have a hairy canary.
The French would turn a blind eye to them boarding lorries and boats and we would never get shot of them. I think a Brexit could see migration from outwith Europe to the UK dramatically increasing.

He isn’t saying hand them back to France.He’s saying ditch the human rights act and deport them to their place of origin.On that note feel free to explain which UN law says thet we have to accept economic emigrants or for that matter even all the world’s refugee problem.

Although having said that if we send them back to France what’s the difference at that point when they’re in French territorial waters or at the dockside than when France sends them to us and they arrive here.No surprise you seem to want to apply double standards in that case.While your whole premise is obviously based on the present Socialist run French regime as opposed to us out of the EU working together with a new FN regime in France regards the immigration issue.France probably also out of the EU at that point.IE if we leave the whole Socialist/Federalist Eurasian project collapses.

[tommy_t]

Bluey Circles:

tommy t:

Bluey Circles:

war1974:
I don’t get the argument about security and our borders and immigration - we are an island its so easy to control - it will also create jobs if we do what say Egypt do and charge an entry fee.

So what are we going to do when a lorry arrives in Dover with 50 migrants hiding in the back ? and with no control on the French side that scenario will become very common. We can’t deport them as that would flout United Nations law.

If we ceased being in the EU and changed some of the hideous clearly not fit for purpose human rights laws that can prevent them being deported back to France, personally i don’t think is unreasonable at all to deport them back to France or Belgium both are Safe countries , as are turkey and Greece , if we went back to checking on our side ,they would have to buy some land nearby as a holding area so EVERY Lorry could be checked, infact if the checks where done in the uk they would probably find more of the [zb], as those tossers who check lorries @ calais don’t do a proper job anyway

Do you think the French or Belgium’s would accept them back? we would need to do it officially, arrange a time and port to hand them back over, and the French would just refuse and block the port. Even if we worked out the original country of origin what are we going to do, drop them in by parachute, the UN would have a hairy canary.
The French would turn a blind eye to them boarding lorries and boats and we would never get shot of them. I think a Brexit could see migration from outwith Europe to the UK dramatically increasing.

Well that needs changing, we should be able to deport illegals from France /Belgium just as the frogs should be able to deport them to their EU neighbours, and so on until the ■■■■■■■ end up in their first safe EU country the only place that they should have any right to claim asylum , failing that they can always f,off back to their home country, either way i don’t not give a toss, but stay in the uk no way
Also another thought if the ferry companies employed security staff, we could just return to the old rules check lorry before driving off at Dover, if any found on your lorry refuse to drive off the boat until ships security remove them, then they have not entered the uk, so can be deported back to calais ect, and reported for fair evasion, This once here we are stuck with them is a load of bollox, bs we do,

[winseer]

Bluey Circles:
The odds from the bookies does not reflect the opinion polls

Bookies; REMAIN 1/3 … EXIT 9/4 (paddypower)
Opinion Poll; REMAIN 41% … EXIT 42% (youGov)

could be worth a few quid on the Exit.

“Remain getting less than 40% of the poll” has now been cut from 40-1 to 33-1. Better hurry.

[carryfast]

Winseer:
“Remain getting less than 40% of the poll” has now been cut from 40-1 to 33-1. Better hurry.

It would be interesting to see what would happen to the prices if Labour dumped Corbyn and put Hoey in his place.

[winseer]

Carryfast:

Winseer:

Carryfast:
To be fair the odds for out at less than 3/1 when I last checked isn’t exactly the odds of a no hoper horse.While the odds for in might have more to do with discouraging the idea of putting loads of money on out and enough on in to get the stake money on out back if in wins.While doing it in a way which doesn’t upset the establishment.

It is an outsider price in a two horse race… Have you ever played markets, made serious bets, and made tactical stabs at any betting market? Yes, a price half as much again as the number of runners suggests an outsider in any kind of race. “No Hopers” tend to be those “selections” which are offered at four times the number of runners, or greater. Even they still win on occasion though.

Concepts:
A 33-1 winner of the 40 runner grand national - is NOT an “outsider”.
A 10-1 shot in a 2 horse race IS a “Rank outsider” or “No Hoper”.
Brexit remains a chance - because it’s trading at 3-1 for “any winning margin”. I have taken heart from this comparative short price for an outsider, and bet on the thing that no one else seems to be looking at… “Winning by a 60/40 margin or better”.

I’ve put a £25 bet on the 40-1 shot which is “Remain getting less than 40% of the poll”.
There again, I back the under dog and rank outsiders all the time - so this kind of bet for me is serious, tactical, - but of course “forlorn” at the same time.

I don’t vote Labour, but I also had a tactical fiver on the 100-1 odds about Milliband would win the last election. It’s all about getting a price that’s better than the real chances, perceived or otherwise.
I figured for sure that he wasn’t really neck and neck with Cameron from this huge price being offered - but also figured that his chances were nowhere near that low either.

I don’t think the prices on the favourites in the National are much different to the favourites in any other race while the odds are more a reflection of the horse’s chances of winning than how many horses in the race.IE 20 no hopers, and two favourites is no different to 10 no hopers and two favourites.As I said in this case there are two favourites and as usual the odds reflect the idea of making it unviable to bet on every horse in the race,with a large bet on the shortest odds favourites,to cover the stake money on the rest.

On that note if you think I’m wrong why not do as I said in putting loads of money on out and enough on in to cover the stake on out if out loses ?.

The book will be over-round which means you can’t do that without a guaranteed loss…

You have to take a view in a market. It can be profitable to bet on every other horse BAR the favourite for example, but you get killed if that favourite then goes and wins anyway…
Bookmakers make money when an unfancied horse wins. They lose a small amount when the favorite wins, but lose the most when a horse that was a big price, gets backed into a short price and THEN wins…
Punters who back such “shortening” winners on a regular basis - soon have their betting accounts closed, and their mugshots posted among high street bookmakers about the country as “faces”…

The type of punter the bookmakers want - is the kind who blindly back whatever they say is the favourite (providing it’s chances of winning are far less) and punters who back “big priced no hopers” that really don’t have a prayer. The professional gambler will be looking in the middle of the road for the “value” to be had.

The winner of this race started at odds-on favourite with a top jockey (Ruby Walsh) riding for example… At the last fence in the race, this horse stumbles, and goes on his knees, at which point the odds “in running” get pushed out to 1000-1 against, thereby mopping up the £836 waiting to get on this horse that missed the off…

Alas… whoever laid that horse @ 1000-1 for £836 ended up losing £836,000 because they made the idiotic decision to lay a favorite in contention at the last, regardless of what mistakes the horse and jockey made…

Amazing win at Leopardstown - Ruby Walsh on Killultagh Vic

It amazes me the chances layers will take to steal a few quid from perceived mug punters…

The point I make though is that ANYTHING can happen, and nothing should be discounted or taken for granted in politics either. Everything suggests that the nation is ready to be bullied into signing up for “austerity forever” with even so-called Socialists like Corbyn telling his people to “vote Remain”. The very worst time ever to be “supporting the Conservatives” one would have thought… Corbyn thinks that we get more rights by staying in. Those ‘rights’ are an illusion as it is. We know this full well, as it’s always the criminal, terrorists, and other undesirables that seem to get a free ride through the joke known better as the European Court of Human Rights - and never the victims of these menaces.